Fair Labor Association Finds Progress in Follow-Up Status Report on Foxconn's Apple Facilities

[MacinDoc]

Yes I did read it. It says "protect the workers salaries." I also applied my own knowledge from MBA school and world travel and corporate behavior. They don't necessarily mean they will pay them the exact same salary. I did not see that. That can just mean they will be paying the same hourly rate, they might not be translating salary correctly. If you think that foxxcon won't be makin cuts here and there to make the profit margins... Well then you should look at the boat loads of companies that have made cuts and made conditions poorer than before.

If they are reduced from 70-80 hours a week, down to 40-60, that leaves 20-30 hours needing to be filled. For every two workers, you would need one extra to pick up lost hours of 40-60. That's increasing the workforce by 33%. Then what about housing at the apartments there? Living conditions, factory conditions, and health conditions will definitely be taxed.

When Apple is in the spotlight, it's hard to not get shined on too. Foxxcon was making money and had these conditions before apple most certainly.

The commitment Foxconn made was to protect workers' incomes from losses caused by reduced overtime. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Apple was contributing financially to the effort.

Edit: Foxconn claims that Apple is fronting 50% of the initial costs of the improved working conditions.

 

[gnasher729]

...the rate of suicides is BELOW the national average so all I can take out of it is that Chinese who work for Foxconn are HAPPIER than the average 'man on the street'.

The rate of suicides at Foxconn is about the same as the rate of employees murdered doing their job in US retail.

If they are reduced from 70-80 hours a week, down to 40-60, that leaves 20-30 hours needing to be filled. For every two workers, you would need one extra to pick up lost hours of 40-60. That's increasing the workforce by 33%. Then what about housing at the apartments there? Living conditions, factory conditions, and health conditions will definitely be taxed.

Average working hours were never 70-80 hours a week. There have been extreme cases of 80 hours overtime in a month, which means about 60 hours working time in a week for a month, but these were extreme cases.

And the best argument against long working hours, recently forgotten in Western countries as well, is that productivity drops. That was found as early as in the 40's when Eysenck (famous for being a pioneer of personality tests) found that in UK weapons manufacturing, that is a place where you'd expect workers to be highly motivated because there was a war going on at the time, workers working 57 hours a week produced less than workers working 48 hours a week. Not less per hour, but less per week. Working too long just makes the worker tired and inefficient. Nine hours more work per week resulted in less work done.

In software development, it is known that 60 hours per week over 6 weeks produces the same output as 40 hours per week over 6 weeks - with the difference being that after 6 weeks, one software developer is now tired while the other one is fresh.

 

[PaulChowHK]

All they needing do is paying workers a little more moneys. Apple so rich but not putting hand inside pocket. They needing remember it is those peoples helping them making so much moneys.

 

[MrNomNoms]

The rate of suicides at Foxconn is about the same as the rate of employees murdered doing their job in US retail.

Yet there is a deafening silence to retailer employees plight.

Average working hours were never 70-80 hours a week. There have been extreme cases of 80 hours overtime in a month, which means about 60 hours working time in a week for a month, but these were extreme cases.

And the best argument against long working hours, recently forgotten in Western countries as well, is that productivity drops. That was found as early as in the 40's when Eysenck (famous for being a pioneer of personality tests) found that in UK weapons manufacturing, that is a place where you'd expect workers to be highly motivated because there was a war going on at the time, workers working 57 hours a week produced less than workers working 48 hours a week. Not less per hour, but less per week. Working too long just makes the worker tired and inefficient. Nine hours more work per week resulted in less work done.

In software development, it is known that 60 hours per week over 6 weeks produces the same output as 40 hours per week over 6 weeks - with the difference being that after 6 weeks, one software developer is now tired while the other one is fresh.

But as I pointed out - the employees voluntarily do the extra hours because they want to earn more money for their family living back in the country side. There is a reason why there is a massive exodus during the Chinese new year - the migrant workers go back to the country side, bring gifts and much needed money for their immediate and extended family. Lets say you increase the pay for the sake of lulz, you're still going to have employees going, "wow! I can earn even more money doing 80 hours" thus the hours will not go down. Ok, put a cap on the number of hours and you'll find that they'll get a second job to earn more money. The solution to the problem is to lift the WHOLE country out of poverty then there will be less pressure on those working in the cities at the likes of Foxconn to work the long hours to help their family - that is what needs to be addressed.

 

[shulerg]

Good news. An eventual 40 hours per week plus overtime will ultimately be better for the workers and Apple--people are more productive when they feel they're being treated fairly.

Having said that, working at Foxconn must be very tough. Very high expectations and very stressful conditions. A lot of these workers probably consider themselves very lucky, though, since about half the Chinese population consists of impoverished people living on $2/day or less.

 

[Wrathwitch]

Yes I did read it. It says "protect the workers salaries." I also applied my own knowledge from MBA school and world travel and corporate behavior. They don't necessarily mean they will pay them the exact same salary. I did not see that. That can just mean they will be paying the same hourly rate, they might not be translating salary correctly. If you think that foxxcon won't be makin cuts here and there to make the profit margins... Well then you should look at the boat loads of companies that have made cuts and made conditions poorer than before.

If they are reduced from 70-80 hours a week, down to 40-60, that leaves 20-30 hours needing to be filled. For every two workers, you would need one extra to pick up lost hours of 40-60. That's increasing the workforce by 33%. Then what about housing at the apartments there? Living conditions, factory conditions, and health conditions will definitely be taxed.

When Apple is in the spotlight, it's hard to not get shined on too. Foxxcon was making money and had these conditions before apple most certainly.

I find this quite interesting. It makes sense.

Actually the whole issue is VERY interesting overall. Consider if you will, yes Foxconn is one of the largest and well producing companies in China (or so I am led to believe). The funding and client that drives them is a US company. I am not so sure how well they would do without Apple, I am sure they would survive, but would they thrive.

Now in a parallel situation, look at Canada and the USA. Canada relies on good relations with the US. Basically if the USA decided, Canada would not be able to stave off the USA should it become a hostile neighbour. So whither goest USA, so goest Canada (any war that the USA decides to jump into). I remember a "if you are not with us, you are against us, in the 9/11 fall out.

Move onwards to Syria and Russia. Russia holds China by the gonads as well when it comes to UN resolution to voting in favour to help out Syrian situation.

Bringing it back to China and Russia in their native lands. Neighbours that are tied to the hip. Russia supports China and China supports Russia on many levels.

The Media here and all of the bleeding hearts for the workers in China, insist we help them with their economy and workers etc. In essence supporting two countries that would just as happily press the button if threatened to the USA.

I personally think that to keep their revenue and business relations with the USA that China (in this case) would happily bend over and take it in the cheeks, much like Canada has to if they want to survive any negative backlash.

Don't get me wrong, I am super grateful to live in North America and not have to live like India or Iran where they constantly fear losing what they have to 5 or 6 other countries.

And yet, China mass produces our toy's components. So in essence we are supporting China.

How interesting is commerce eh?

Kinda like a parent who is surprised when their child turns out to be a mass murdering psychopath when all they wanted was the best for them and to take care of them and help them.

I wonder what the average Foxconn worker thinks about all of this?

 

[tbrinkma]

One cannot compare working conditions betwixt China and the US. We have very intricate laws designed to prevent abuses.

Has the Taiwanese parent ever worked in the United States? Now, Taiwan isn't as bad as China, but it still has its own economical issues.

Yes, we do. So do they. In *both* countries some employers skirt the limits or cross the boundaries of those 'intricate laws' in order to increase profits.

For the record, do you know the legally mandated maximum hours worked in a week for an employee in the US? Anybody? (I'll give you a hint, you won't find it in a legal code, and you'll have to do some math to figure it out.)

 

[farmboy]

Steve Jobs would never have let this progress happen if he were alive.

And Samcraig is so dedicated to finding any negative spin on Apple that now he's channeling a dead guy.

 

[samcraig]

And Samcraig is so dedicated to finding any negative spin on Apple that now he's channeling a dead guy.

Maybe you've been absent from the boards recently. It's become a meme.

 

[mdelvecchio]

Steve Jobs would never have let this progress happen if he were alive.

a tired joke that wasnt that funny to begin. you dont look cool for making it over & over.

 

[samcraig]

a tired joke that wasnt that funny to begin. you dont look cool for making it over & over.

You must mistake me for someone who cares whether or not they look cool. It was a sarcarstic nod to the meme. Which I agree has been overplayed. Although in the thread about the keynote designer who was fired - it was pretty funny.

I also haven't made that joke before. But feel free to play board cop on every thread and every person who has in the last few weeks.