Fake VS Real Element & Draco IV

[al0513]

I was referring to the post about the aluminum, and I was looking at the binding you referenced

I've lost interest in arguing that the manufacturing cost of Element's cases are justified or not. I know enough about manufacturing overseas and domestic to be ok with the cost (btw, Anvil, you forgot to mention that the cost to anodize domestically is considerably higher because the chemicals used to anodize have to be disposed of properly, by a third party)

I've also lost interest in arguing whether or not it's ok to make/sell/buy counterfeits, regardless if the product cost is perceived as too high. Nobody is twisting my arm to have this case

I just remembered why I never engage in internet forums anymore.

I'm off to buy a Vapor Pro R8

PLEEEASE Post your OWN PICS to prove us that you actually bought one lol..

also Insignia is an actual company.

 

[Anvil Image]

I'm sorry Anvil... we will just have to remain in disagreeance with our philosophies. None of this is personal. I'd be more than happy to have a beer with ya.

We don't have to be enemies because we don't share the same views on this subject.

I have no problem with disagreeing over a beer...

Are you suggesting that a CNC machined Element aluminum case is more durable than a snowboard binding?

Snippage....

Yours and Anvil's explanations of the processes involved in Element case manufacturing did not stand up to scrutiny. It does not compare to snowboard bindings. To argue that the quality of an iPhone aluminum case is better than a snowboard binding's aluminum chassis is a bit absurd.

I'm not trying to say that an Element Case is more durable than an aluminum snowboard binding but the binding from Ride that you showed is not CNC machined but rather stamped sheets of aluminum. I looked at the offerings from Flow with the "CNC milled aluminum rocker" and it is not a piece that is entirely machined from a billet to get that part. It still appears to be a sheet bent on a brake and the holes in it are milled out.

There is still a huge difference between the production process of those parts and any aluminum bumper. There is much more small detail work requiring more machine time and bit changes than what goes into the snowboard bindings. That machine time is what accounts for the cost of the product not to mention the additional hand work that goes into each Element Case to ensure a great finish.

Your comparison of a snowboard binding to a machine iPhone bumper is that of apples to oranges. They may have aluminum in common, but the manufacturing processes and expectation in material operating role, and the amount of fine detail work are way different.

 

[iz2sick]

Well, I am comparing apples to oranges in the sense of cost.

You guys have explained the aluminum aspect very well and I admitted my ignorance on that subject.

To be quite honest, this debate sparked my interest in the matter and I contacted Ride about how they manufacture their aluminum

But my whole point was, I can get a very good quality pair of snowboard bindings with the similar types of aluminum (aircraft grade) for around the same price. Go a little higher, and the bindings get more exotic. Just like there is a lot involved with the manufacturing process of the aluminum on Element cases, there are extensive processes pre and post manufacture of snowboard bindings. I have to bring that up because still, these two products remain in the same price range.

To me, spending $250 (what I average on bindings) on snowboard bindings is a fully justified cost because of all the work and effort that go into them. But the snowboarding world has an Element type brand as well. Burton. Same deal. They claim the best processes and quality build. I cannot deny that they are good products. I'm not denying that Element has a great product. But I have to say a lot of Burton hardgoods are overpriced simply because of the brand name.

Thank you Anvil. I am being sincere with that. I learned a lot from our debate. This one of the reasons why I love to debate. It's good to hear the other side.

Thank you for keeping it civil as well. You have my respect (not that it matters haha).

 

[iz2sick]

Continue from other thread...



Which Rolex do you consider high end? The one I have on now is $11k. How about the $84k day date, which is not hand made either. It is hand finished. Rolex has done a very good job in terms of marketing to create an idea of what a swiss watchmaker is. I have bought a few Rolexes and have been on the Rolex forums for years where, so I know a thing or two about the product. If you're talking about a Patek, then that's hand made.

There you go, you know of one hand-made. That is the type I'm talking about though. Special editions and very high-end models (high end on a Rolex paygrade). Still, their robotics is very quality. But I believe you already pointed that out

Where did I make this analogy? I have never brought up LV in any of my posts, so this is telling me you are either confusing me with someone else or you're just making up stuff. By the way, I never accused you of calling me an employee of Element. I accused others who have had and you just decided to respond to those posts.

I wear a real Rolex and denounce fake Rolexes, so does that mean I am a shill for Rolex as well? Or maybe the reality is that I have principles on not buying or using fake products. I found it despicable that other companies would make fakes down to the authentication certificate. What's worse is that people have no problem buying fakes.

I have looked at Ali Express and I haven't come across a seller that specifically states that they are selling a fake on their ad.

I didn't say their ad stated it. Nor did I say any of their listings either. I said if you were to ask them, they would tell you without hesitation. Would most likely go on a rant about how theirs is quality too. Outside of Aliexpress, YoYobase puts the word "No" in their listings like "No Element Vapor" which I'm guessing is bad translation for "No real"

And trying to make the comparison to gun ownership is a weak argument. The fake companies are trying to pass their products as the real thing. If they were not, then they wouldn't be reproducing the box and certificate of authenticity. They are not disclaiming that their product is a fake or replica on their ads either. So you should be blaming the manufacturer of these fakes.

It's not weak just because you say it is. You said you place blame on the counterfeiters for people reselling them as real. Or at least that's what you were insinuating. I brought up the gun analogy because it is a logical analogy.

Do you blame gun manufacturers for people using them to murder others? No right? You should blame the people using the gun for the wrong purpose. Just like you should blame the people who are buying these knock-offs to cheat others. So how is my argument weak exactly?

I suggest you go back to the fake vapor pro thread and re-read every single post I made. I just did and I didn't find anything condescending or antagonistic. This seems to be another case of you confusing me for someone else or you're making up stuff.

I'll do that later... but I already provided one quote of yours that you claimed I was either lying about or confusing you for another...



I've read a number of your posts and to me, it sounds like you're justifying your behavior and trying to intimidate others. In dealing with me, you've said that I said things that I never did to try to bolster your argument.

I have always stand against fakes so it's not limited to Element Case. Once I receive mine, I will make the decision if it's worth it or not. If it's not, I will tell people that it isn't, but I would never even suggest buying a fake.[/QUOTE]

 

[indyzzzz]

wasting your breath on element shills mate.....

 

[Sunday Shadows]

i have a red draco copy, seems to do ok with my replacement i4 but with my original it cut signal to where it was unusable, the replacement drops a bar but it still works. im not using it anymore so....its uh...hint hint.

 

[Vudoo]

I didn't say their ad stated it. Nor did I say any of their listings either. I said if you were to ask them, they would tell you without hesitation. Would most likely go on a rant about how theirs is quality too. Outside of Aliexpress, YoYobase puts the word "No" in their listings like "No Element Vapor" which I'm guessing is bad translation for "No real"

You're implying that buyers cannot trust what is presented to them and that they have to ask the seller if the product is real or fake. That's like going to the AT&T store and asking if they are selling real or fake iPhones. The purpose of branding is to associate a product to a company. Businesses spend quite a sum of money to do so. It would be like someone selling Pepsi in a Coke bottle. Both are colas sharing a lot of the same ingredients, but when a person buys a Coke bottle, they expect it to taste like Coke even if they buy it for a lesser price. If you see a person wearing a police uniform and a badge, you expect that they are a real police person. You don't usually ask them if they are a real cop.

It's not weak just because you say it is. You said you place blame on the counterfeiters for people reselling them as real. Or at least that's what you were insinuating. I brought up the gun analogy because it is a logical analogy.

Do you blame gun manufacturers for people using them to murder others? No right? You should blame the people using the gun for the wrong purpose. Just like you should blame the people who are buying these knock-offs to cheat others. So how is my argument weak exactly?

I didn't say blame the counterfeiters for people reselling them as real. I said that the counterfeiters are to be treated the same way as the people passing off fakes for the real. That's why I considered your analogy weak because you were trying to link the counterfeiters to the sellers.

I'll do that later... but I already provided one quote of yours that you claimed I was either lying about or confusing you for another...

Have you gotten a chance to go through my posts? I will give you reasonable doubt that you confused me with what others have said.

wasting your breath on element shills mate.....

Iz2sick actually adds something to the conversation while you on the other hand have nothing to offer. For all I know, you could be a shill for one of the companies that makes fake cases. You've promoted a few and even posted coupon codes for them. Of course that may not be true, but you don't seem to be interested in the truth.

 

[SchneiderMan]

This thread turned into one big personal opinion argument war quick.

 

[ET iPhone Home]

So do you really think that there is a factory somewhere in the States that makes ALL of these real "US" made items?

Doubtful. To cut down on cost which increases profit, they have contracted some production plant to make these in China- most likely the same place that the "fakes" come out of. They just use lower grade materials.

ALSO, not to mention, the DRACO IV/Deff Cleave, says .... MADE IN TAIWAN on the back of the box.

So before you say "BUY AMERICAN" do some research.

Let me guess, you drive a Mexican/Canadian made Chevrolet while yelling "BUY AMERICAN" to someone driving an BMW X3- which is manufactored on US SOIL. ( Of course not all the components but every X3 comes out of a plant in SC)

Isn't it amazing how some BMW's are made in the USA and still carry the price of an import. Go figure that scheming logic.... Bmw's look good, but they are so problematic. Have had 2 new and never again. My friends have purchased them and are experiencing poor mechanical and electrical craftsmanship as I did.

Anyway, back on topic, I just prefer to buy the real thing. I've travelled to Hong Kong's Night Market many of times and have seen the fakes. "Some" just fall apart right there on the spot. Not worth it for me. And they have this same fake smell.

 

[indyzzzz]

Isn't it amazing how some BMW's are made in the USA and still carry the price of an import. Go figure that scheming logic.... Bmw's look good, but they are so problematic. Have had 2 new and never again. My friends have purchased them and are experiencing poor mechanical and electrical craftsmanship as I did.

Anyway, back on topic, I just prefer to buy the real thing. I've travelled to Hong Kong's Night Market many of times and have seen the fakes. "Some" just fall apart right there on the spot. Not worth it for me. And they have this same fake smell.

These German cars are meant to be leased, let someone else deal with the issues after the 3-4 year warranty is gone. Of course if you cannot "pay off the 3-4 yr lease" with 6 months, then you shouldnt even be driving one

Ive received 2 very good quality fakes (and 2 poor quality ones that were sent back). I have access to a real vapor pro now, and although I must admit there is a slight difference in quality, the difference is not enough to justify spending an extra 100-150 dollars on this case. But thats just IMHO. The person who has the real vapor pro now has buyer's remorse lol, now that he knows how much mine cost. But for most folks buying the real one, i dont think they'll think twice about dropping 150$ on the real one since they dont know about the cheaper knockoffs, ignorance is bliss

 

[Hboyalize77]

Fake one here, fits just the way I want it, Looks just the way I want it, and cost me $27 shipped.

Well Well Worth it in my Eyes.

Can you tell me where you bought this? Any problem with reception drop?

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I have the fake Vapor Pro. Decent quality. The price is what makes it great for me.

I'm not paying $150 for an aluminum bumper that costs more than half of what my iPhone cost. I would probably cry if I scratched or dinged the real one. I can care less if I do the same to the lesser quality, but much cheaper knock-off.

But if I had the money to burn, I would get the genuine one. I'm just not that fortunate.

Can you tell me where you bought this? Any problem with reception drop?