Falling Mac Sales Have Apple's OLED Panel Suppliers Spooked

[michaeljk]

Imagine if they had a 27 inch iMac line that they could equip with OLED displays.

This brings up another point. I wonder if it isn't just "Mac Sales" but also Apple's move away from Desktops with Monitors. Apple no longer forces us to buy desktops with built-in monitors. I cannot ever see buying an iMac again. I currently have three perfectly good monitors sitting around my house right now. Two are connected to my (2013) Mac Pro. One will eventually be connected to a different work station at my cabin, which will be run by either a Mac mini or a Mac Studio. When I replace my old Mac Pro, it won't be with a Mac that has a built-in monitor.

 

[BenLeong]

It's not the notch IMO, it's the Mickey Mouse upgrades since the original M1 😏 Most people are waiting for a proper upgrade with the M3 and if Apple doesn't deliver, Mac sales will continue to be in trouble!
As far as the notch is concerned, if they're keeping it, then it should at least have a Face ID and a camera on a par with iPhone

Well, speaking for myself, I decided to pass on a new MacBook Pro because of that ugly ridiculous notch. Once they fix that, I’ll buy one.

 

[bradman83]

It's not the notch IMO, it's the Mickey Mouse upgrades since the original M1 😏 Most people are waiting for a proper upgrade with the M3 and if Apple doesn't deliver, Mac sales will continue to be in trouble!
As far as the notch is concerned, if they're keeping it, then it should at least have a Face ID and a camera on a par with iPhone

The TrueDepth camera optical assembly is too thick to fit into the lid of a laptop, it requires a prism for the dot projector and the module is almost as thick as the entire depth of an iPhone/iPad. Optics are one thing you just can’t flatten out to fit into a super slim enclosure.

 

[bobcomer]

I honestly do not get this complaint. I legit don't notice it at all on my work MBP, which is the computer I spent the most time on.

It's one of those things that it either it bothers you, or it doesn't. It draws my eyes like a magnet and I would never own a laptop with a cutout like that. I don't like it on a phone either, but it's not like there are any other choice than to have a notch (or island or hole punch) I think it's the asymmetry that bothers me.

 

[rpmurray]

Apple no longer forces us to buy desktops with built-in monitors.

Apple also has Macs that don't come with a built-in monitor. They are known as the Mini, Mac Studio and the Mac Pro, so I'm not sure where the "forcing" is coming from.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Well the global economic down turn which makes credit even more of a consumer rabbit hole, adding a great rise in prices of MacBooks, and a massive rise of iMacs. To get the same as before we basically pay almost double. Oh, iPhones will follow the same pattern, probably will even a greater relative decline.

 

[acconda81]

We are in a recession, even though not "officially" I am glad people are finally curbing their spending on premium products. The more we continue to buy, the more inflation keeps rising! We really do not need the latest and greatest products. On the other hand, we also need to be forcing companies to change direction with user repairability and upgradability by not buying products until they change them, laptops & desktops especially.

 

[maflynn]

The more we continue to buy, the more inflation keeps rising!

The less people buy, the more people get laid off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Mr. Dee]

The less people buy, the more people get laid off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you are due for an upgrade, certainly buy the latest and greatest you can afford. But if the reality is the market is saturated with good enough products already, there is no sense in the vast majority upgrading every year. If less people buy because the vast majority have current products, thats just an unfortunate reality. Also, we are creating too much ewaste already.

 

[maflynn]

there is no sense in the vast majority upgrading every year.

It never made sense to upgrade every year

 

[Bodhitree]

There probably was significant pent-up demand prior to the release of the M1, and people splurged, and now people have up-to-date hardware, no need to buy new for a few years. So you’re looking towards the cautious “second wave” adopters who sat out the first-gen products to step in. And they seem to be waiting for the M3.

 

[Mr. Dee]

It never made sense to upgrade every year

The reality is a lot of us bought the M1 and M1 Pro/Max/Ultra Macs. And those still on Intel are still finding great use for their devices and let’s not count out the second hand market. On top of the world economy right now.

 

[nottorp]

The reality is a lot of us bought the M1 and M1 Pro/Max/Ultra Macs. And those still on Intel are still finding great use for their devices and let’s not count out the second hand market. On top of the world economy right now.

Early adopters bought the M1s. Consumers generally don't have money right now. And pros who could actually use a new machine... apparently you can't find an apple device with anything but the default ram (which is useless for heavy use) in Europe. So how do they want to sell Macs?

 

[Victor Mortimer]

The TrueDepth camera optical assembly is too thick to fit into the lid of a laptop, it requires a prism for the dot projector and the module is almost as thick as the entire depth of an iPhone/iPad. Optics are one thing you just can’t flatten out to fit into a super slim enclosure.

The bezel on this 2015 15" MBP is bigger than that idiotic notch. There's PLENTY of room in a decent size bezel for it.

And yes, a bezel is FAR better than that idiotic notch.

As far as thin goes... I DO NOT CARE IF IT'S THIN. Make it thicker. Thicker can be sturdier, and sturdier is important on a machine that gets carried around.

Or, and this may come as a shock to some people, most of us DO NOT CARE about the camera. If I had the choice of a laptop with an idiotic notch or no camera at all, I'd take the one without the camera. And I'm hardly alone, I see a LOT of computers with tape over the camera. If it's got to have a camera, I'd prefer it to be as low resolution as possible. "truedepth" is utterly useless and stupid. The only thing the camera on a monitor is ever used for is videoconferencing, and NOBODY wants that to be high resolution, nor do they care about "depth". Do you really worry about making sure whoever you're on that zoom call with can count your nose hairs?

 

[Frantisekj]

PC sales across vendors have declined on the heels of big increases as workers solidified their remote WFH setups. They've also declined in the face of increasing economic uncertainty as the R word gets bandied about. Keep grinding those axes about the notch or RAM or (lol) bezels or whatever, but there are bigger economic forces at play.

Because their iPad lineup and pricing is ****ing bonkers and their Macs RAM and SSD upgrades are nothing but outrageous. While their base models have absolute bare minimum RAM and SSD with a high starting point overseas.

Apple is nothing but greed and bare minimum now due to Tim Crook.

There are probably multiple factors in play. Like your mentioned. Economic outlook looks dark with US on brink of gov default, dedollarization in world in full swing, huge sale of M1 macs that means huge amount of old machines hit second hand market for good prices. A maybe there is not that much real switchers as it looked like it could be. So market can be highly saturated in current condition.
My 2009 MBP with SSD does its job. Runs Catalina. Not a speed deamon but works.

 

[ignatius345]

I think the point you were replying to is you used to be able to buy a base machine and upgrade it yourself later. The 2012 MBP sitting in the drawer next to me right now, for ex, got drive and ram updates. So did the 2014 mini server I have. The og Intel mini I have around somewhere got *CPU* (core 2 duo) ram and drive updates.

My 2013 Mac Pro (basically the equiv of the studio) has a replaced CPU, drive, and ram too. On the extreme upgrade-ability side I've updated my 2010 5,1 Mac Pro on nearly everything except the backplane (gpu, cpu, ram, nvme boot drive, wifi, bluetooth, usb3 card, and 10gbe network card) in the time I've had it. Even the 2010 iMac allowed replacement CPUs and GPUs, though it was rare that someone actually did.

back on laptops though it was common up until recently for ram and drives to be replaceable, so you could buy the base and upgrade it later. Now you have to get the specs you want for the lifespan of the machine upfront - and some of those upgrade costs are pretty steep.

Now I get why Apple did that, especially with AS and the SoC (though we'll see if that painted them into a corner on the Mac Pro), and I don't disagree with the reasoning (at least on AS) but it is frustrating when buying a machine and budgeting.

Fair points, for sure. I've upgraded many a Mac hard drive and RAM stick myself over the years. And yes, Apple has completely shifted from being a DIY-friendly platform to selling incremental upgrades. I'm feeling the pain, having underspec'ed my M1 Air and now hurting for drive space.

I would counter, though, that the base models are (particularly since the move to Apple Silicon) quite remarkably capable for a lot of work. With the advent of super fast SSDs, for many uses RAM is no longer the bottleneck it once was, And with the advent of cloud storage, a small drive can also be stretched out a lot further than it used to be. Meanwhile, the price of entry has essentially fallen once inflation is factored in.

 

[ignatius345]

Imagine if they had a 27 inch iMac line that they could equip with OLED displays.

Yeah, I'm sure that $3000 iMac would really turn everything around with Mac sales.

 

[rpmurray]

Yeah, I'm sure that $3000 iMac would really turn everything around with Mac sales.

Glad to see someone agreeing with me. 🤣

 

[laptech]

If Gen 8 OLED's are allegedly meant to be more efficient than Gen 6 OLED's then I cannot understand both panel makers reluctance in upgrading their production lines to Gen 8. There are thousands of electronic device manufacturers in the world who can and could use OLED panels and would most certainly benefit from more efficient displays in their products but yet both panel makers are putting all their eggs in one basket and waiting on the decision of ONE manufacturer before they make a move.

 

[Gudi]

If Gen 8 OLED's are allegedly meant to be more efficient than Gen 6 OLED's then I cannot understand both panel makers reluctance in upgrading their production lines to Gen 8. There are thousands of electronic device manufacturers in the world who can and could use OLED panels and would most certainly benefit from more efficient displays in their products but yet both panel makers are putting all their eggs in one basket and waiting on the decision of ONE manufacturer before they make a move.

You know they won't make any money, if they don't supply Apple.
It's the only brand that sells quality over price.

 

[seek3r]

Fair points, for sure. I've upgraded many a Mac hard drive and RAM stick myself over the years. And yes, Apple has completely shifted from being a DIY-friendly platform to selling incremental upgrades. I'm feeling the pain, having underspec'ed my M1 Air and now hurting for drive space.

I would counter, though, that the base models are (particularly since the move to Apple Silicon) quite remarkably capable for a lot of work. With the advent of super fast SSDs, for many uses RAM is no longer the bottleneck it once was, And with the advent of cloud storage, a small drive can also be stretched out a lot further than it used to be. Meanwhile, the price of entry has essentially fallen once inflation is factored in.

I don't disagree, my base M1 Mini is almost surprisingly capable, just pointing out the problem being discussed

 

[pdoherty]

Early adopters bought the M1s. Consumers generally don't have money right now. And pros who could actually use a new machine... apparently you can't find an apple device with anything but the default ram (which is useless for heavy use) in Europe. So how do they want to sell Macs?

They don’t?

Checkable Deposits and Currency Held by the Bottom 50% (1st to 50th Wealth Percentiles) (DISCONTINUED) | FRED | St. Louis Fed

Graph and download economic data for Checkable Deposits and Currency Held by the Bottom 50% (1st to 50th Wealth Percentiles) (DISCONTINUED) from Q3 1989 to Q2 2022 about checkable, wealth, percentile, deposits, currency, and USA.

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[pdoherty]

There are probably multiple factors in play. Like your mentioned. Economic outlook looks dark with US on brink of gov default, dedollarization in world in full swing, huge sale of M1 macs that means huge amount of old machines hit second hand market for good prices. A maybe there is not that much real switchers as it looked like it could be. So market can be highly saturated in current condition.
My 2009 MBP with SSD does its job. Runs Catalina. Not a speed deamon but works.

Agreed. If Apple thought switching away from Intel CPUs, that were capable of making a Mac also run Windows natively, and going to their own silicon was going to bring in more switchers… well, I’m not sure they were thinking all that clearly.

 

[mudflap]

Is anyone else rolling their eyes at the constant repetition of "slumping Mac sales?" The M1 revolutionized the entire industry and Apple is still years ahead of literally everyone else. Don't they still outpace every other PC company in yearly sales growth? They sold a ton of M1 Macs, but M2 was a relatively minor upgrade so they didn't sell as much, so what? How could anyone expect a repeat? The introduction of Apple Silicon Macs was a rare, game-changing event; yes, we had the upgrade to OSX, and the switch from Motorola to Intel, but compared to the performance-per-watt craziness of the M1, although they were welcome changes, they're not even close.

 

[Gudi]

Agreed. If Apple thought switching away from Intel CPUs, that were capable of making a Mac also run Windows natively, and going to their own silicon was going to bring in more switchers… well, I’m not sure they were thinking all that clearly.

The iPod alone brought a constant stream of new switchers. Nowadays you can't cross a street without seeing white AirPods. iPhone and iPad will forever lure in switchers and the only job of Apple Silicon is providing them with a flawless speedy, cool and quiet experience. It couldn't be any easier.