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Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues
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THANK YOU!!!!
^ they are doing it in every effing thread and is upsetting because this is a real issue that doesn't effect only flash developers but everyone who develops in 3rd party compilers
Hmmm, won't the hundreds of thousands of apps on the current store not support multitasking? I don't really get Apple's approach here. Just take some games and don't let them multi-task, like they work now. You leave that game, it shuts down. it works perfectly fine currently.
Or is it simpler than that? Apple needs apps to work a certain way for iAd?
Well, thanks for your extended rant about flash, given that my post was about other development engines. I've heard all of the flash rhetoric before and I understand that you must repeat whatever Steve Jobs commands you to say.
Your opinion essentially means nothing because you have no effect on anything. It is well known that this would affect other Unity and the like besides just Flash. Right now even Unity is not sure if iylt includes them. BTW, if you're solely a Flash programmer, then you're really not a programmer at all.
I'd like to see what would happen to Adobe if the pulled CS for the Mac off the shelves after poor sales and reviews of CS4 and the thousands of jobs they had to cut at Adobe for the past two years.
Apparently you know nothing about business so your opinion shouldn't count.
ADBE is actually up today. I guess photoshop is actually now a verb so that's gotta be pretty valuable. I am still surprised that Adobe did not put together a PDF annotating program for the ipad. That will be the killer feature of this medium. It will take a big budget company, however, to get it right. For Adobe its a no brainer!
Flash is barely used for anything more than porn ads and pogo games since it's terrible as an environment beyond the web. HTML5 must be a scary thought to Flash developers because it removes the need for that plug-in when it comes to the majority of what it gets used for.
Exactly, it's little different from the current App store offerings.
I'm sure one could write a crappy app without using Flash.
Who wants to bet that Apple has had a "no-Photoshop" contingency plan for years now?
Jut like they had a MacIntel plan long before they announced the move to Intel.
This is the Apple of OUR generation, folks. Nothing to sneeze at.
Apple's already got the entire industry scoped out for the next decade. Rest assured.
Jut like they had a MacIntel plan long before they announced the move to Intel.
This is the Apple of OUR generation, folks. Nothing to sneeze at.
Apple's already got the entire industry scoped out for the next decade. Rest assured.
The fallout I’m worried about is the consequences to “innocent bystanders”—excellent Mac-derived companions to Xcode such as Unity 3D, which allow one person to make a game in a few months that would otherwise take a team and a huge budget. Unity seems like it may (or may not!) be caught in the crossfire here, and a lot of indie game talent (and personal livelihoods) hangs in the balance. Ravensword and Samurai: Way of the Warrior are examples of great games that probably would not exist without Unity. (I hope my own Unity game, partially complete, becomes another such example, but at this point I’m very worried!)
As for timing vs. Adobe’s announcement... It seems as though Apple’s timing makes sense for all concerned (even Adobe). Apple couldn’t very well unveil the autumn iPad OS BEFORE shipping the current iPad (that would be silly). And if Apple waited to drop this bomb until after people were buying CS5, THEN you’d have seen some fallout! (Plus, the reasons behind this move may tie into the OS 4 release, which Apple wanted to get out to developers now.)
I agree that the customer experience is a priority for Apple, but you’re missing what he said. He was posting about developers who do NOT use Adobe products, but you responded about Flash specifically.
Not all middleware is bad. Unity, for instance, gives you a fantastic physics and rendering system that lets a great idea become a game in users hands when otherwise (without a big Gameloft behind it) that could not happen. Indie creativity leading to qaulity app store games (and Apple themselves have featured Unity games) is a GOOD thing for users.
So Flash may be bad for users. I can see that. But not ALL the tools that this new agreement affects are like Flash.
And remember that Flash bypasses Xcode, while Unity works with it. Apple has been fine with Unity for ages and one would hope they still are. But the wording of the agreement is so broad that many great tools (and great developers!) seem to be affected. Clarification is badly needed.
As for timing vs. Adobe’s announcement... It seems as though Apple’s timing makes sense for all concerned (even Adobe). Apple couldn’t very well unveil the autumn iPad OS BEFORE shipping the current iPad (that would be silly). And if Apple waited to drop this bomb until after people were buying CS5, THEN you’d have seen some fallout! (Plus, the reasons behind this move may tie into the OS 4 release, which Apple wanted to get out to developers now.)
I agree that the customer experience is a priority for Apple, but you’re missing what he said. He was posting about developers who do NOT use Adobe products, but you responded about Flash specifically.
Not all middleware is bad. Unity, for instance, gives you a fantastic physics and rendering system that lets a great idea become a game in users hands when otherwise (without a big Gameloft behind it) that could not happen. Indie creativity leading to qaulity app store games (and Apple themselves have featured Unity games) is a GOOD thing for users.
So Flash may be bad for users. I can see that. But not ALL the tools that this new agreement affects are like Flash.
And remember that Flash bypasses Xcode, while Unity works with it. Apple has been fine with Unity for ages and one would hope they still are. But the wording of the agreement is so broad that many great tools (and great developers!) seem to be affected. Clarification is badly needed.
I fully support Apple's right to do what they want if it keeps a better more stable and consistent experience. Look how many apps from Adobe are PC looking and not following the Mac guide lines or how many times we Mac users were screwed over by Adobe. My only concern is that that I hope Apple already have pro graphics apps in the works to allow an option to what has too long been a graphic suite monopoly.
People forget...
People seem to forget the poor support OSX receives from Adobe for Flash. Why would Apple want to support a standard that doesn't support them? Now that Apple is in control of the mobile market, they can dictate the direction they want to go, in terms of what standards are used. Apple doesn't have this luxury in the desktop market.
I, for one, do not like Flash. I think HTML 5 is much more intriguing. I don't think Flash is as bad as people say it is (it used to be pathetic a few years ago), I just don't see the need for it in the future of web design. Apple is beginning the transfer to HTML 5. Others will follow, eventually.
Good riddance. R.I.P. Mobile Flash.
People seem to forget the poor support OSX receives from Adobe for Flash. Why would Apple want to support a standard that doesn't support them? Now that Apple is in control of the mobile market, they can dictate the direction they want to go, in terms of what standards are used. Apple doesn't have this luxury in the desktop market.
I, for one, do not like Flash. I think HTML 5 is much more intriguing. I don't think Flash is as bad as people say it is (it used to be pathetic a few years ago), I just don't see the need for it in the future of web design. Apple is beginning the transfer to HTML 5. Others will follow, eventually.
Good riddance. R.I.P. Mobile Flash.
If they have such a plan now would be a swell time to whip it out and put Adobe out of its misery.
My favorite was "Comments disabled as Im not interested in hearing from the Cupertino Comment SPAM bots."
So he's not interested in listening to anyone - just throwing out his tirade without regard to what the facts really are. My daughter was that way, too -- when she was 3.
The load of implementing multitasking isn't on the developer's shoulders. Apple rewrote the OS to support multitasking. Pandora said that it took just a few hours to put the correct hooks into their software. It's not unreasonable to ask developers to do that when a new feature is added to the OS. Otherwise, the OS developer would have to write everyone's software for them.
Considering that we're now near 3 years of the iPhone without Flash and 85 million users, I don't think it's going to hurt the iPad.
Further consider that there's not a single mobile platform that runs a full version of Flash or will open most Flash sites. It's not Apple's problem - it's that Flash is a fat, bloated pig that won't run on mobile processors.
Why do you expect that anyone will take you seriously when anyone who disagrees with you is a 'buffoon'?
The fact is that Flash stinks. If Adobe puts it onto jailbroken iPhones, it will continue to stink. The rest of the mobile world gets by just fine without Flash - why do you think that jailbroken iPhones would make it a huge success?
Go to www.webkinz.com and log in. CPU usage jumps way over 100% (dual core system).
Your Flash bias is showing.
1. HTML 5 only works on 8% of the Internet? Funny, but NONE of the mobile browsers support it.
2. Where's the evidence that 75% of games and 90% of videos require Flash? Youtube how has an html 5 version - along with zillions of other sites.
Funny how those same figures (both #1 and #2) show up everywhere but there's no original source. Do they come from the Adobe shill handbook?
3. html 5 can't do half of what Flash can do? Did you see the Toy Story iAd demo? Exactly what is it that Flash can do that html 5 can't do?
4. True. html 5 isn't a standard, but that doesn't mean it can't be used. 802.11n routers were in widespread use years before the standard was finalized.
Apple isn't telling ANYONE what they can use as a development tool. They're simply stating that they will only accept apps in the AppStore if they meet Apple's requirements. That's a vasty different story.
You're really confused about a lot of things, but the biggest one is that you do not become a monopoly just because Adobe doesn't like you. Apple is no where near a monopoly.
Adobe's free to put themselves out of business if they wish. Apple wouldn't have any problem duplicating the functionality before software already in the channel became obsolete.
Why is it that people insist on repeating this same stupid idea over and over? Adobe's revenues would drop by half overnight. Their overheads would not. Profitability would therefore drop by MORE than 50% (probably much more).
AND, since half of creative professionals are already using Macs, it would create one heck of an opening for a competitor. Apple did just fine with Final Cut - they could do the same with image editing.
Another person who's proudly showing the world that he doesn't know anything about antitrust law - and doesn't care who knows it.
I think that's what has Adobe so scared. 4 months ago, Youtube was cited as a big reason why Flash was necessary. It hardly took them any time to bring out an html 5 version of their site. Same with Hulu. And NY Times. Companies are showing how easy it is to bring out html 5 versions of these sites and Adobe is now in panic mode.
Yes, the statement would be that they want to see what the inside of a bankruptcy court looks like. Not a very wise move.
Feel free to create your own platform and you can do whatever you want.
Apple has chosen a different route. They've chosen to focus on usability and customer experience - and that requires some limitations on what developers can do. Apple customers seem pretty happy with that.
You'd be surprised. Even after years of Adobe favoring Windows (how long did the 64 bit version of Photoshop for Windows appear before the Mac version?), half of professional graphics are still done on Macs. The users who were going to switch would have done so by now.
If Adobe made an announcement today that CS5 would be their last Mac version, Apple would make an announcement tomorrow that they would have iPhoto Pro out in 12 months - and the majority of users would be happy with that.
Exactly. And they're not going to support all the new features, either.
Done. It's called xcode. The fact that it won't support YOUR language of choice doesn't change the fact that it supports multiple languages.
For the most part Apple is correct.
If you disagree with any of the above then I really don't see how a conversation is even possible.
HTML 5 hopes to be a real standard promoted buy a real standards body. So yeah when it is finalized, if it hasn't been already, it will be a "NEW" standard. Flash however isn't and never will be a widely accepted standard.
"Is Flash a resource hog" - I can't believe anybody that uses a computer would even ask that question. It makes me think you are trolling here. In any event yes it uses excessive CPU resources and RAM.
Dave
Not really because my concerns are primarily that of a user. A user that has leveraged multiple platforms over the years including Linux, Windows, MacOS and whatever. Everywhere that flash has run it has been the biggest destablizing force on the computer. I reject flash and Adobe because they have had years to do the right thing and have done nothing to make flash safe and reliable.
Right about what? That Adobe has been boning users for years now and likewise Apple? That flash is a significant risk to browser users? That much of which passes for flash programming is crap? That flash uses considerable resources on PCs or other devices?
If you disagree with any of the above then I really don't see how a conversation is even possible.
HTML 5 hopes to be a real standard promoted buy a real standards body. So yeah when it is finalized, if it hasn't been already, it will be a "NEW" standard. Flash however isn't and never will be a widely accepted standard.
"Is Flash a resource hog" - I can't believe anybody that uses a computer would even ask that question. It makes me think you are trolling here. In any event yes it uses excessive CPU resources and RAM.
Dave
Apple Inc.
Market Cap: 219.25B
Adobe Systems Incorporated
Market Cap: 18.59B
Apple knows its goal, they want Adobe to work within there rules, Adobe is playing the public pressure card. It is not going to work for Adobe. While most of the Web is using flash, when there are 100 Million Apple devices surfing the web, the end users (web content providers) will have no choice to switch.
Its is already happening now.
My personal view of flash? It is great for video, but every time I see a flash ad, with sound, and its blaring out of my speakers on my system and slowing down my system. That is spam. Nope Adobe did not create the spam they just enabled millions of sites to spam me. I say kill the weed at the root. Make that type of junk go away.
Adobe sells buggy whips and now people are driving cars. Standards change, the best Adobe can hope to accomplish is prolong the death of flash. They would do better to focus on other technology...
Market Cap: 219.25B
Adobe Systems Incorporated
Market Cap: 18.59B
Apple knows its goal, they want Adobe to work within there rules, Adobe is playing the public pressure card. It is not going to work for Adobe. While most of the Web is using flash, when there are 100 Million Apple devices surfing the web, the end users (web content providers) will have no choice to switch.
Its is already happening now.
My personal view of flash? It is great for video, but every time I see a flash ad, with sound, and its blaring out of my speakers on my system and slowing down my system. That is spam. Nope Adobe did not create the spam they just enabled millions of sites to spam me. I say kill the weed at the root. Make that type of junk go away.
Adobe sells buggy whips and now people are driving cars. Standards change, the best Adobe can hope to accomplish is prolong the death of flash. They would do better to focus on other technology...
I'm not a knee-jerk Apple-basher, but in terms of Android this is pure FUD. Android phones do not need a task killer, and there is a pretty good amount of evidence that using one actually winds up hurting the phone's performance. Every app written for the phone needs to respond to a whole bunch of events that involve it going to sleep, wking back up, saving and restoring data, etc. It's all built into the design of Android, and none of it requires user intervention. The iPhone 4.0 "multitasking" seems pretty anemic in comparison.
A practical example of why you don't want Flash on the iPad
I don't know a great deal about all this, but this review by engadget of the FusionGarage JooJoo product gives an insight to what would happen to the iPad and iPhone if Flash was allowed to run on it.
Personally, I like the speed, robustness and battery life of both my iPhone and iPad, and wouldn't want these issues to plague it.
By the way - this review also gives you a great insight into just how difficult it is to produce a good tablet and how much we take for granted in the iPad.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/
I don't know a great deal about all this, but this review by engadget of the FusionGarage JooJoo product gives an insight to what would happen to the iPad and iPhone if Flash was allowed to run on it.
Personally, I like the speed, robustness and battery life of both my iPhone and iPad, and wouldn't want these issues to plague it.
By the way - this review also gives you a great insight into just how difficult it is to produce a good tablet and how much we take for granted in the iPad.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/
This isn't about HTML5, and HTML5 itsn't useful for making App store content.
Perhaps you should post in a revelant thread.
