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Fastest Bootable Bootcamp SSD for 2010 Mac Pro

M

MikeX

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 27, 2016
127
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I have an original Mac Pro 2010 with 64GB ram. I want to run Windows Server 2016 on it.

- What would be the fastest SSD I can use for booting to Windows, which is equal or larger than 512GB?
- Which M2 card would work well?
 
I think it's been proved many times that for normal booting, almost any SSD are the same. The bottleneck seems not at there.

900x900px-LL-1fb52e74_Screenshot_1.png
 
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Just get a Samsung Evo 850. Doesn't matter SATA 2 or 3 interface. Boot speeds don't climb just because the interface or disk has a higher maximum bandwidth.

Some newer computers boot faster because they have firmware support for quick booting from hibernation files. The Mac Pro doesn't have that.
 
SoyCapitanSoyCapitan said:
Just get a Samsung Evo 850. Doesn't matter SATA 2 or 3 interface. Boot speeds don't climb just because the interface or disk has a higher maximum bandwidth.
Click to expand...
h9826790 said:
I think it's been proved many times that for normal booting, almost any SSD are the same. The bottleneck seems not at there.
Click to expand...
The OP is asking about booting into Bootcamp, not boot speeds. SSDs installed on PCIe cards in Mac Pros can be much faster than SATA SSDs in Mac Pros. Some of the cards will allow the computer to boot into Windows, but many will not.
 
chrfr said:
The OP is asking about booting into Bootcamp, not boot speeds. SSDs installed on PCIe cards in Mac Pros can be much faster than SATA SSDs in Mac Pros. Some of the cards will allow the computer to boot into Windows, but many will not.
Click to expand...

Thanks we know about disks around here.
 
Fastest by far is the Samsung XP941 and SM951 AHCI. Only AHCI M.2 cards are bootable in 2009/2010 Mac Pro.

PCIe M.2 allows ~1.6GB/s in that system. The drive bays top out around 0.28GB/s.
 
MikeX said:
- What would be the fastest SSD I can use for booting to Windows, which is equal or larger than 512GB?
- Which M2 card would work well?
Click to expand...

I don't mean the booting speed. I mean running Windows.

I have Evo 850 on C: right now. I get a steady 180 MB and since I'm running a lot of VMs that's a bottleneck for me.
 
Sorry for my poor English, I thought OP means "fastest booting into Windows", but not "the fastest SSD that can boot into Windows". Obviously I was wrong.

In this case, someone claim that he can run bootcamp on a SM951 (AHCI), not 100% sure how to do that, but that's should be the fastest (non RAID) SSD that can be use in Windows.

In any case, you can simply boot from a SATA SSD and then use a SM951 for your work.
 
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MikeX said:
I don't mean the booting speed. I mean running Windows.

I have Evo 850 on C: right now. I get a steady 180 MB and since I'm running a lot of VMs that's a bottleneck for me.
Click to expand...

Fastest by far is the Samsung XP941 and SM951 AHCI. Only AHCI M.2 cards are bootable in 2009/2010 Mac Pro.

PCIe M.2 allows ~1.6GB/s in that system. The drive bays top out around 0.28GB/s.

If you really want to squeeze every last ounce of constant speed from them, go read up on adding a little (1" square) stick-on heatsink to the M.2 drive's controller chip. No throttling ever that way. There are some available cheap, marketed for Raspberry Pi stuff that work nicely.

Any $20 dumb passthrough PCIe x4 to M.2 card adapter will work perfectly.
 
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MikeX said:
Slash, tx a lot!

By the way, SM951 AHCI seems pretty hard to get in Germany. I could only find the https://www.amazon.de/Samsung-SM951-128GB-Solid-Drives/dp/B00VELD5D8 which is 128gb.

Everything available is nvme. I'm assuming nvme, does not work for Windows for boot drive on MP 2010, correct?
Click to expand...

Correct. NVMe is not bootable in 2010 MP, not in Win; not in Mac OS.

May be worth a look on ebay. A lot of gamers bought the XP and SM's and only used them until the NVMe 950 Pro came out.

In real use, the SM951 will be a tiny bit faster than the XP941. Probably not noticeable.
 
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I am getting very slow speeds in windows on my MPc 2010 using various SATA SSD disks. I have the Samsung EVO and Kingston A400. They both give med speeds just below 200Mb/sec using the AJA benchmarking program. One of them is tested in windows 7 ultimate, the other one in windows 10 fresh install.

Is there some kind of limit to the SATA that stops the disks from giving more then this?

I would assme these kind of disks should reach around 500Mb/s as they do when i google this.

What is wrong here? Does this have anything to do with BIOS emulation / ATA emulation? Bootcamp not running EFI mode, and not getting correct speeds? This is running from its own Windows partition. Not virtual. It boots straight into windows, and was installed using bootcamp installation method.

Thanks for any advice!
//GF
 
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goodfidelity said:
I am getting very slow speeds in windows on my MPc 2010 using various SATA SSD disks. I have the Samsung EVO and Kingston A400. They both give med speeds just below 200Mb/sec using the AJA benchmarking program. One of them is tested in windows 7 ultimate, the other one in windows 10 fresh install.

Is there some kind of limit to the SATA that stops the disks from giving more then this?

I would assme these kind of disks should reach around 500Mb/s as they do when i google this.

What is wrong here? Does this have anything to do with BIOS emulation / ATA emulation? Bootcamp not running EFI mode, and not getting correct speeds? This is running from its own Windows partition. Not virtual. It boots straight into windows, and was installed using bootcamp installation method.

Thanks for any advice!
//GF
Click to expand...
MP5,1 southbridge SATA interface is SATA II. That's the four internal bays plus the two ODD ones.

After overhead of the SATA 300 protocol, the best sustainable throughput you can ever get is around 250MB/s. So, with most common SSDs you can get sustainable speeds around 220~225MB/s and with the best SLC/MLC NAND SSDs you can get near the 240~250MB/s mark. This is with macOS.

With Windows we have another factor that contribute to lower the speeds, the CSM mode defines the MP5,1 southbridge SATA interface as IDE and not as AHCI like with macOS, this will get the throughput to around 200MB/s mark, most times a little lower, and with greater latency as well.

At the moment, this cannot be changed unless you got for Windows installed with UEFI mode and risk bricking your BootROM. We are investigating changing the CSM definitions from IDE to AHCI inside the BootROM, but it's theoretical at the moment and will require a BootROM mod.
 
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Ok, thanks for replies!

I have done so much testing trying to get the windows partition over to the PCI SSD now and failed.

Anyhow, thanks for all the replies!
 
A
To use a NVMe blade with Windows 8.1 or 10 is needed a UEFI install and it's not supported or recommended with MP5 said:
Are you sure that it is not possible to make install on normal SSD first, and then clone the boot partition to the NVME?

I have been trying this but cannot find any free apps that will clone the small 200mb partition that is in front of the NTFS partition.

My impression was that the problem is due to bootcamp refusal to install on external disk. However by first install on internal disk and then clone content would be a possible way around it.

However, i still struggle.

//gf
Click to expand...
 
goodfidelity said:
A
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BootCamp is a CSM/legacy Windows install and won't boot from a NVMe blade at all. Windows 8.1 and 10 only can boot from NVMe if you installed via UEFI mode. Cloning a CSM install to a NVMe blade won't work.

Use a SATA SSD for Windows, installed via CSM/legacy mode, and prevent future headaches.
 
tsialex said:
BootCamp is a CSM/legacy Windows install and won't boot from a NVMe blade at all. Windows 8.1 and 10 only can boot from NVMe if you installed via UEFI mode. Cloning a CSM install to a NVMe blade won't work.

Use a SATA SSD for Windows, installed via CSM/legacy mode, and prevent future headaches.
Click to expand...

Thats so sad! I really want the higher speed from my new blade.

Is the installation process that harms the EFi on the Mac?

Would it be possible to clone existing efi install to avoid danger of corrupting the EFI?

Thanks for all the good advice!

//GF
 
goodfidelity said:
Thats so sad! I really want the higher speed from my new blade.

Is the installation process that harms the EFi on the Mac?

Would it be possible to clone existing efi install to avoid danger of corrupting the EFI?

Thanks for all the good advice!

//GF
Click to expand...
  1. Mac Pro mid-2010 and mid-2012 are EFI 1.10 Macs and are not compatible with the UEFI 2.3.1.D standard required for Windows UEFI booting that was ratified in March 2013, years later after Mac Pro 5,1 was released.
  2. Only Macs released after 2013 support UEFI 2.3.1.D or later. Only late-2013 and 2019 Mac Pros are UEFI.
  3. The EFI System Partition (ESP) inside your hard drives/blades has nothing to do with the BootROM or if your Mac support EFI/UEFI standards. BootROM is stored into a SPI flash memory soldered on the backplane and it's the Mac firmware.
  4. MP5,1 BootCamp is a CSM legacy install. Apple only certified CSM/legacy Windows installs. UEFI Windows installs are totally unsupported by Apple for MP5,1.
  5. Windows 8.1 and 10 only work with NVMe blades if it's installed via UEFI mode. NVMe booting requires UEFI with Windows.
  6. MP5,1 BootROM is susceptible of corruption caused by the unsupported UEFI Windows installs and SecureBoot signing of the BootROM. A corrupted SPI flash will make your Mac Pro a brick and require a hardware repair.
  7. If you really need faster disk access with Windows, buy an AHCI PCIe blade, like Samsung SM951-AHCI or Kingston Predator, and then do a CSM/legacy install.
 
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h9826790 said:
I think it's been proved many times that for normal booting, almost any SSD are the same. The bottleneck seems not at there.

View attachment 681171
Click to expand...

With the Mac Pro 4,1 and 5,1s , the fastest macOS boot times interestingly were with high quality SATA SSDs installed in HDD Bay 1 ( far left ) . Around 30 seconds , just like the above chart . Boot camp might respond identically .

But you'll get much better macOS performance with a NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD once she's up and running , even if it might take longer to boot . Some of the M.2s I've installed in cMPs take 1 minute 15 seconds to boot , but with real PC Windows workstations this is not unexpected . So no big tragedy compared to the real deal .
 
So i managed to get a AHCI 480 GB bootable SSD with PCI adapter, it is Predator blade disk.

Now i want to move my windows partition over to this, or make new install. How do i do this?

Anyone feel friendly enough to give me som pointers?

how to i get windows to install in that kind of disk?
As i understand it is concidered "external" and that has to be altered somehow?
I am really looking to upgrading my mac pro to windows 10 and blade SSD.



Thanks!

Best regards

EDIT:
From this link i managed to make SSD look like internal:
innie and lilu

This takes 2 downloads, and then to put them together - i dont know why its not done already - and then restart with csrutil disable, and then install into library folder, and then reboot. its about 10 minute job for a noob, cause the guides are not written with proper links. Solution is page 1 post 9 and page 15.

Now i am on to the windows clone, and will see if it works..
 
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