FCC Says iPhone Didn't Exceed Radiofrequency Radiation Safety Levels

[konqerror]

For example, a consumer microwave oven transmits at 2.45GHz. Things that are about the length of the hydrogen - oxygen bond in water efficiently absorbs that wavelength. Any bigger and it passes right through. That is why dry things cannot be heated in a microwave.

Incorrect. That is a complete myth. The lowest microwave resonance of water is at 22 GHz, a factor of 10 higher. Microwave ovens heat by dielectric loss. It is not necessary to have resonance to heat by loss. Again, your arguments technically flawed. 10% frequency does not matter in terms of RF safety in the low microwaves.

Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_loss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drude_model

Figure 1 shows this and also shows that 10% difference is insignificant (note log scale in frequency)

Water and microwaves

Different frequencies are different frequencies. Imagine trying to use a car radio to listen to music if different frequencies “bled” into other frequencies. Likewise, the microwave oven is tuned to be efficiently absorbed by water.

This is technically wrong, but I don't feel like writing a college textbook on coherent vs incoherent receivers, mixers, and bandpass filters.

Honestly, if you are interested in electrical engineering, please listen to those with experience and read from reputable sources, and pursue a formal education in it. There appear to be major gaps and misconceptions in your knowledge.

 

[Solomani]

The Tribune and that money-grubbing law firm needs to be sued to bankruptcy by both Apple and Samsung.

 

[cmaier]

perhaps the iPhones pass a specific test, but obviously they DO emit harmful radiation when kept close to the body. The iPhone hasn't been vindicated. It's still hazardous to hold it close regardless of what the FCC tests shows

“Obviously” doesn’t mean what you think it means.

 

[danny842003]

perhaps the iPhones pass a specific test, but obviously they DO emit harmful radiation when kept close to the body. The iPhone hasn't been vindicated. It's still hazardous to hold it close regardless of what the FCC tests shows

Based on what evidence?

 

[sidewinder3000]

This story had the feeling of shocking news when it first launched, but lost momentum verrry quickly. Something felt weird about the lack of follow up articles in the days and weeks after it first went national. That, more than anything else, gave me confidence that legitimate tech pros did not believe this was a real problem. I'm glad that MacRumors shared this, because it's been lingering in the back of my mind, but this article confirms what I'd suspected: specious.

 

[Sedulous]

Incorrect. That is a complete myth. The lowest microwave resonance of water is at 22 GHz, a factor of 10 higher. Microwave ovens heat by dielectric loss. It is not necessary to have resonance to heat by loss. Again, your arguments technically flawed. 10% frequency does not matter in terms of RF safety in the low microwaves.

Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_loss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drude_model

Figure 1 shows this and also shows that 10% difference is insignificant (note log scale in frequency)

Water and microwaves

This is technically wrong, but I don't feel like writing a college textbook on coherent vs incoherent receivers, mixers, and bandpass filters.

Honestly, if you are interested in electrical engineering, please listen to those with experience and read from reputable sources, and pursue a formal education in it. There appear to be major gaps and misconceptions in your knowledge.

Actually, you are right that I am wrong (and thank you for being civil about it). Liquid water and its vapor have a broad absorption in microwave spectrum. Well done.

The “10% difference in frequency” part still makes no sense to me. 10% of what?

 

[konqerror]

The “10% difference in frequency” part still makes no sense to me. 10% of what?

10% of 2450 MHz = 245 MHz. So within 10% means 2450-245 MHz to 2450+245 MHz, or 2205 to 2695 MHz.

Basically you get the feel that things shouldn't change much over 10%, so when some other bands are within 10% of the microwave oven frequency, you reasonably believe the safety effects will be the same.

(and thank you for being civil about it)

Same to you.

 

[Tech198]

if we all felt the same way of RF, everyone would be zombies by now

In fact,, wouldn't a microwave radiation be worse ? I guess the take away from these phones is the SAR is low enough to be under the limit of FCC reach, but i bet your phone would run outta battery during talk time well and truly, before it kills brain cells.

 

[FlyingDutch]

Hardly unexpected. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Law firms don’t care about customers at all. They are just seeking for more money, making things up.

 

[mymacrumorsname]

My testicles say otherwise ...

So, that is what testicles are for. They test for radiation. Now I get it.

 

[BvizioN]

My testicles say otherwise ...

Eat more bananas and nuts!

Hahahaha, who trusts the paid FCC? HAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Paid because you don't like what you read? If it was a different story, than it wouldn't be paid I guess. Typical MR community!

perhaps the iPhones pass a specific test, but obviously they DO emit harmful radiation when kept close to the body. The iPhone hasn't been vindicated. It's still hazardous to hold it close regardless of what the FCC tests shows

What a lot of crap! Everything emits harmful radiations to some degree, even the food. Never mind the Sun, the Universe itself, or even lot of antennas across everywhere. Most of radiations comes from the mother nature and it is still perfectly fine and tolerable from living organisms. People are fascinating creatures! They do a lot of harm and sometime irreparable damage to their body, but moan when it comes from stuff that at a miniscule level, stuff that nobody forces them to use by the way.

 

[WaxedJacket]

It should be noted that the Chicago Tribune ran their tests next to the No. 4 reactor in the Chernobyl. I'm not sure if this had any effect on the results.

 

[Tuba]

Despite being "safe", long-term exposure of any form of radiation must have an effect, and likely affects different people in different ways.

Have you considered the risk associated with the radiation in the 400-800 THz spectrum put out by eg. most street lighting?

 

[kis]

I guess that's good news for the consumer - and for Apple and Samsung?

 

[mac_in_tosh]

The fact that phones don't exceed FCC RF radiation safety levels only means that they don't exceed FCC RF radiation safety levels.

 

[cmaier]

The fact that phones don't exceed FCC RF radiation safety levels only means that they don't exceed FCC RF radiation safety levels.

True. It doesn’t mean they produce any negative health consequence, it doesn’t mean they’re legally liable for anything, it doesn’t mean they’ve done anything wrong, etc. Lots of things it doesn’t mean.

 

[lkrupp]

That argument never seemed to both cigarette manufacturers.
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Evidence for this claim?

Junk science, that’s all he needs.
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Hardly unexpected. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Law firms don’t care about customers at all. They are just seeking for more money, making things up.

Yep. I got a check for $7.48 yesterday from a class action I didn’t even know I was part of. Something about bird seed I used to buy. I wonder what the lawyers got?

 

[mac_in_tosh]

True. It doesn’t mean they produce any negative health consequence, it doesn’t mean they’re legally liable for anything, it doesn’t mean they’ve done anything wrong, etc. Lots of things it doesn’t mean.

And it doesn't mean they don't produce any negative health consequence, given the history of regulation in the U.S.

 

[AxiomaticRubric]

There is an underlying issue being glossed over by the drama: Who determines what a safe level of radiation actually is, and in reality, is any level of constant radiation exposure “safe” over a long span of time?

Discuss.

 

[norbinhouston]

Apple haters will always try to find a fringe reason to hate the iPhone, since in its basic form, its a great product and why its such a success. The haters will try to detract by saying things like, well Steve Jobs was a total jerk, or the factory where they are made use slave labor. lol, then they grasp at straws when even the slightest negative article is published about Apple. Sad really.

 

[mannyvel]

And it doesn't mean they don't produce any negative health consequence, given the history of regulation in the U.S.

Indeed. And it doesn't mean that it produces negative health consequences either.

Again, there is a process for determining these levels. If you feel the process is incorrect you are free to petition the FCC to change the process.

You probably have more risk of being injured by someone using a smartphone than risk from ionizing radio waves emanating from your smartphone causing you health problems.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Again, there is a process for determining these levels. If you feel the process is incorrect you are free to petition the FCC to change the process.

I don't think I'd have much of a chance against lobbyists of the multi-billion dollar cell phone industry.

You probably have more risk of being injured by someone using a smartphone than risk from ionizing radio waves emanating from your smartphone causing you health problems.

Just curious, do you have expertise in assessing radiation risk or are you just assuming it's small?
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Apple haters will always try to find a fringe reason to hate the iPhone, since in its basic form, its a great product and why its such a success. The haters will try to detract by saying things like, well Steve Jobs was a total jerk, or the factory where they are made use slave labor. lol, then they grasp at straws when even the slightest negative article is published about Apple. Sad really.

Steve Jobs was a total jerk.

The factory where they are made use slave labor.

One can say these things and still like the iPhone.

 

[norbinhouston]

I don't think I'd have much of a chance against lobbyists of the multi-billion dollar cell phone industry.



Just curious, do you have expertise in assessing radiation risk or are you just assuming it's small?
[automerge]1576863601[/automerge]


Steve Jobs was a total jerk.

The factory where they are made use slave labor.

One can say these things and still like the iPhone.

But the thing is, haters only apply this method of scrutiny on Apple products. How's the CEO of the stove you just bought? What conditions are its factory, how's its stock price doing? lol.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

But the thing is, haters only apply this method of scrutiny on Apple products. How's the CEO of the stove you just bought? What conditions are its factory, how's its stock price doing? lol.

Other companies are scrutinized for their worker conditions. If Apple gets more scrutiny, that may be in part because of the image they project as being different.

And as for the CEO of other companies, not all of them like to bask in the limelight and exaggerate their contributions.

 

[Analog Kid]

10% of 2450 MHz = 245 MHz. So within 10% means 2450-245 MHz to 2450+245 MHz, or 2205 to 2695 MHz.

Basically you get the feel that things shouldn't change much over 10%, so when some other bands are within 10% of the microwave oven frequency, you reasonably believe the safety effects will be the same.

I’ll just add that since this isn’t a resonance phenomenon, it isn’t a question of impedance matching or power transfer efficiency. The frequency affects the skin depth. Lower frequencies penetrate more deeply, but if the material is sufficiently thick the same amount of power is delivered.