What do you not understand “iPhones do not have FM radio capability built into them”. Regardless of the merits of Pai’s statement you cannot enable what is not there. When you look at the list of phones that do have FM radios that list is quite small. If you want FM radio “there is an app for that”.Completely agree. Apple should Enable it for safety precautions. For those living where Hurricanes are more Prevalent, this could be a useful tool when they need it most.
What do you not understand “iPhones do not have FM radio capability built into them”. Regardless of the merits of Pai’s statement you cannot enable what is not there. When you look at the list of phones that do have FM radios that list is quite small. If you want FM radio “there is an app for that”.
Nice smackdown, Apple. Hopefully the staffers who wrote that request for Pai will be on the receiving end of a Pai smackdown as well for not doing a minimal amount of product research before embarrassing their boss.
The disturbing part of Apple's response is that it is patently FALSE. There is no technical way that the iPhone 7 & 8 could NOT have an FM chip in them. FM is simply within the cell phone frequency ranges. Unless Apple is having special chips made (which they have not so far), this is simply untrue. The only thing Apple could have done is deliberately disconnected any connection for an antenna. Even with that, it makes them look bad.
What a lot of people do not realize is that during emergencies, most TV & Radio stations have backup generators to stay on the air. Cell phone towers do not. That is another reason why Apple's response is so poor.
You do not know what you are talking about. FM means frequency modulation, and is a method of broadcasting a signal on any frequency, cell phone or otherwise. Cell phone frequency ranges have nothing to do with FM; indeed cell systems do not use FM, they use QAM in many instances.
Many (not all, and perhaps not most) cell coverage areas are equipped with towers that have backup generators.
If people require FM access on their phone to survive, there are bigger problems present than whether or not Apple includes this capability in the iPhone. How about the government focus on getting people to have an emergency plan first? I'm guessing the majority of the people in this thread whining about this don't even have an emergency plan in place should a disaster (natural or man made) hit.
You can argue over semantics all you want.
I'm just saying that if your post is going to use words like FACTS and make claims as to what various pieces of equipment have and do not have and what they are and are not capable of, you should at least appear to know what you're talking about, semantical or not.
But please, do carry on with your rant. Explain to me what a frequency is again!
What about what's mentioned at https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...iphones-updated.2073441/page-11#post-25143347But I proved you WRONG. Apple is using the same Qualcomm and Intel chips as Sumsung and other cell phone manufacturers that have FM receivers. How is there no FM receiver in Apple's SAME chips? Unless you can explain that, you're completely wrong as is Apple yet you keep arguing a useless point over FM propagation over QAM. You're making a completely useless comparison to my statement.
I've yet to hear anyone explain Tim Cook and Apple's complete LIE to its customers and to hurricane survivors who Apple was of no use to.
Even if you proved my explanation as wrong in describing FM by using the wrong term, my point still stands and is true.
I love Apple products, but Apple's arrogance and just outright dismissive attitude to this EAS problem is extremely troubling to me.
And btw, for those arguing that Ajit Pai is just arguing for 75 year old technology. he is actually one of the chief supporters of Next Generation TV (ATSC 3.0) on cell phones. So this guy is not just some government policy person.
What about what's mentioned at https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...iphones-updated.2073441/page-11#post-25143347
What about what's mentioned at https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...iphones-updated.2073441/page-11#post-25143347
Yep, case closed on this whole issue. And nobody has really clamored for FM functionality the past, and it’s doubtful it’ll happen in the future given the industry-wide move towards wireless audio and charging so an antenna long enough to receive FM won’t be possible.
Moral of the story: Buy a cheap battery operated radio that’ll receive both AM and FM if you live in a disaster prone area. It’ll last waaaay longer than a cell phone’s charge would anyway, so do it even if your phone CAN receive FM. I live in an area where severe storms and tornadoes aren’t uncommon, and it’s a no-brainer.
Yep, case closed on this whole issue. And nobody has really clamored for FM functionality the past, and it’s doubtful it’ll happen in the future given the industry-wide move towards wireless audio and charging so an antenna long enough to receive FM won’t be possible.
Moral of the story: Buy a cheap battery operated radio that’ll receive both AM and FM if you live in a disaster prone area. It’ll last waaaay longer than a cell phone’s charge would anyway, so do it even if your phone CAN receive FM. I live in an area where severe storms and tornadoes aren’t uncommon, and it’s a no-brainer.
The disturbing part of Apple's response is that it is patently FALSE. There is no technical way that the iPhone 7 & 8 could NOT have an FM chip in them. FM is simply within the cell phone frequency ranges. Unless Apple is having special chips made (which they have not so far), this is simply untrue. The only thing Apple could have done is deliberately disconnected any connection for an antenna. Even with that, it makes them look bad.
What a lot of people do not realize is that during emergencies, most TV & Radio stations have backup generators to stay on the air. Cell phone towers do not. That is another reason why Apple's response is so poor.
I hope Ajit Pai stands his ground. Tim Cook is no engineer. He's a bean counter.
I completely agree - if an area is without power for days, weeks or months then an FM receiver built into a phone is going to be pretty useless anyway because there would be no way to charge it!
If you live in an area where FM reception may be important investing $20 or so in a portable FM radio and a bunch of batteries has got to be the best option
But I proved you WRONG. Apple is using the same Qualcomm and Intel chips as Sumsung and other cell phone manufacturers that have FM receivers. How is there no FM receiver in Apple's SAME chips? Unless you can explain that, you're completely wrong as is Apple yet you keep arguing a useless point over FM propagation over QAM. You're making a completely useless comparison to my statement.
I've yet to hear anyone explain Tim Cook and Apple's complete LIE to its customers and to hurricane survivors who Apple was of no use to.
Even if you proved my explanation as wrong in describing FM by using the wrong term, my point still stands and is true.
I love Apple products, but Apple's arrogance and just outright dismissive attitude to this EAS problem is extremely troubling to me.
And btw, for those arguing that Ajit Pai is just arguing for 75 year old technology. he is actually one of the chief supporters of Next Generation TV (ATSC 3.0) on cell phones. So this guy is not just some government policy person.
Like I said, if Apple did deliberately chang the chips for no other reason than to disable this function, then I think there should be some HELL to PAY for abandoning hurricane victims. Everybody else is being criticized.
Why is Timmy Cook somehow immune from this? Is he somehow more pure in his GREED?
your second argument (blue) is a complete argument against your first argument (red).
so all other widely used communications are gone.. no TV, no cellular, no landlines.. ok, but why is it being taken as fact if a disaster wipes out all communication, that FM will somehow still remain? or why is it being assumed that if all communication is down, that the dude sitting behind the mic in a FM broadcast booth 30 miles away has the relevant information.. in the event you've outlined, the broadcaster is not going to warn you to get out
launch drones with internet/cellular transmissions
deploy mobile towers in event of emergency..
Why have a transmitter in your phone a device with very limited battery. An emergency radio that uses 2 AA batteries would have a battery life 5+ times the life of a cellphone that requires cables and such to charge. Better solution is to become a ham radio operator and get an inexpensive radio. Exam is 15 bucks and radios can be had for 25 bucks.
Moral of the story: Buy a cheap battery operated radio that’ll receive both AM and FM if you live in a disaster prone area. It’ll last waaaay longer than a cell phone’s charge would anyway, so do it even if your phone CAN receive FM. I live in an area where severe storms and tornadoes aren’t uncommon, and it’s a no-brainer.
I completely agree - if an area is without power for days, weeks or months then an FM receiver built into a phone is going to be pretty useless anyway because there would be no way to charge it!
If power is out for months, won't you eventually run out of batteries for any other form of communication you have as well?
not my idea.. and it's more than just an idea.Nice idea, but I don't think a drone can stay aloft indefinitely and would be subject to that same cell distance problem mentioned above.
I am an engineer. You are wrong. The frequency ranges don’t overlap. And even if they did, the chips are designed to decode OFDM and QAM, not FM and AM.
Your argument is like saying all trains can be used on highways because they have wheels. They’re not the right kind of wheels.
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I demand that all iPhones include built in desalinization units. In a crisis that could be handy.
Also, all iPhones should contain the engineering faculty from Stanford university. In a crisis of misinformation, they could be used to inform laypeople that not all radio waves are the same.
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They are not using the same chips. The way these suppliers number chips is that all chips which use the same OFDM/QAM core are numbered with an identical prefix. That’s the part that’s the same. There is additional identifying information that appears on bills of sale and documents the public doesn’t see. But these are all SoCs, and differ slightly from major customer to major customer depending on the customer’s requirements.
This is the primary benefit of the SoC vs ASIC design methodology - easy customization by use of defined buses on chip. Differences between different Broadcom chips with seemingly identical part numbers, for example, have come up in various public court documents if you look for them.
The funny thing is that while you attempted to humiliate me by stating you're an engineer, you STILL DIDN'T PROVE that Apple is correct. Nothing you said proves there are no FM receiving chips in Apple iPhones. In fact, the vast majority of other posts here and elsewhere prove you wrong. Even Apple didn't make the claim that no iPhone contains an FM reception chip or a connection to an antenna. They only claimed 2 models didn't. And that claim is suspicious in nature and STILL unproven. The FCC certifies these phones. So I guess they just don't know because you know better as an "engineer." Ok, next?
I simply think Apple has a marketing reason not to enable the chips. And if they don't, why don't they enable the FM in all prior iPhones to the iPhone 7 now per the FCC request? Is this really that costly of an expense?
When Apple blocks ATSC 3.0 TV on iPhones are you going to back that too? I would bet the farm that Tim Cook fears that far worse. Imagine FREE TV on your iPhone, that you don't even have to buy?
Sigh. Yes, I was referring to iPhone 7 and 8.
And the only evidence we have is apple’s statement. There is no evidence to the contrary. It’s not my job to prove anything - Apple, who would know, had stated those phones (which are actually four models) don’t have the chips. If you want to make the extraordinary accusation that they are lying to the FCC, the burden of proof is on you, not me.
feels like i'm mostly talking to some old dudes caught up in some sort of nostalgia thing
Sigh. Yes, I was referring to iPhone 7 and 8.
And the only evidence we have is apple’s statement. There is no evidence to the contrary. It’s not my job to prove anything - Apple, who would know, had stated those phones (which are actually four models) don’t have the chips. If you want to make the extraordinary accusation that they are lying to the FCC, the burden of proof is on you, not me.
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And, by the way, your “they are the same frequencies” argument remains utter nonsense, easily disproven, and shows that your argument rests on decrepit foundations.
Go get a PhD in electrical engineering and then come back and explain how a ofdm receiver can demodulate fm signals, and do so in different frequency bands that they weren’t designed for.
The FCC certified the iPhones. They are the one making the demand of Apple.
I am simply backing up their reason for why its important to the criticize Apple's decision, but that's probably not a good idea in a group of an Apple-defending people where Apple never does wrong. So I'll leave it at that.
The original article shows the FM chips are out there in statistics. I don't need a Phd to prove that.
i apologize if that came off as offensive.You are way too dismissive of older people.![]()