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Surely that voice could not have been the one you quoted.

Because that voice sounded like it belonged (and should have stayed) in the McCarthy era.

mccarthy.jpg

I guess reason is in the ear of the beholder....lol
If you have no respect for Ludwig Von Mises and really think that most people are well informed on the issue of net neutrality then be my guest. :rolleyes:
 
What regulation? Every attempt I saw by the FCC to "regulate" the Internet up until this point has FAILED UTTERLY in the court system, which has ruled quite consistently that the FCC has no power to do the things it has been trying to do.

No. The internet was regulated under Title II up until 2002, when the then head of the FCC reclassified cable modems under Title I. DSL connections followed three years later.

The only time the FCC failed to regulate the industry was when they tried putting net neutrality restrictions on what were then Title I entities. Verizon took them to court over it in 2010, and were therein told that they didn't have the power to enforce that standard on Information Services. They'd have to reclassify them as Common Carriers to do so.

The Comcast ended up doing stuff to Netflix, the whole issue came to a head, and now we're here today. Having this discussion about THE GOVERNMENT TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE INTERNET.

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If you have no respect for Ludwig Von Mises and really think that most people are well informed on the issue of net neutrality then be my guest. :rolleyes:

If most people were well informed about net neutrality, we wouldn't be 19 pages deep into a thread about it.
 
What regulation? Every attempt I saw by the FCC to "regulate" the Internet up until this point has FAILED UTTERLY in the court system, which has ruled quite consistently that the FCC has no power to do the things it has been trying to do.

Up until 2004, I can find no cases of the FCC doing anything other than "promoting principles".

In 2005, I see a Madison River case where the case was settled before ever being taken to court (no rulings). DSL (a phone based service) was deregulated in 2005 (that means NO REGULATIONS by the FCC, not "more"). The FCC was reminded by the National Cable and Television Association that it had no authority without a Congressional law to implement "Net Neutrality" and they urged them to pursue one.

In 2007, the FCC attempted to deal with Comcast throttling Bit Torrent clients and ordered a cease and desist in 2008, but in 2010 the US Court of Appeals ruled the FCC, "has failed to tie its assertion’ of regulatory authority to an actual law enacted by Congress." That means they had no authority to regulate Internet content or ISP behaviors.

In 2010, the FCC proposed Net Neutrality "principles" that did NOT tell ISPs that they could not charge customers more for higher speeds. "The measure was denounced by net neutrality advocates as a capitulation to telecommunication companies such as allowing them to discriminate on transmission speed for their profit, especially on mobile devices like the iPad, while pro-business advocates complained about any regulation of the Internet at all." What that means is AS *I* SAID EARLIER, some of your "friends" pushing for "Net Neutrality" want ONE PRICE, ONE SPEED for customers. In other words, they want everyone to have the same speed/access and no faster access for more money. Think of it as the Communism of Net Neutrality. This would mean SLOW SLOW SLOW for those of us that aren't living on welfare.

"On January 14, 2014, the DC Circuit Court determined in the case of Verizon Communications Inc. v. Federal Communications Commission[47] that the FCC has no authority to enforce Network Neutrality rules, since service providers are not identified as "common carriers."

"On May 15, 2014, the FCC decided to consider two options regarding Internet services: first, permit fast and slow broadband lanes, thereby compromising net neutrality; and second, reclassify broadband as a telecommunication service, thereby preserving net neutrality."

Here's your "government" scheming to ALLOW fast lanes via FCC regulation. Whatever your beliefs about "Net Neutrality" are today can be changed by the FCC at a moment's notice tomorrow. Do you seriously believe they are no affected by lobbying? Again, how about a CONCRETE LAW instead of a "ruling" ? It won't and HAS NOT stood up in court thus far and I see no reason to believe it will this time either. Look at who controls the courts right now. It's not Obama's side.

"On January 16, 2015, Republicans presented legislation, in the form of a U. S. Congress H. R. discussion draft bill, that makes concessions to net neutrality but prohibits the FCC from accomplishing the goal or enacting any further regulation affecting ISPs."

Notice the latter part. It STOPS ANY FURTHER REGULATIONS of the ISP. Your Republican Congress at work for big business.

"On February 26, 2015 the FCC applied common carrier of the Communications Act of 1934 and Section 706 of the Telecommunications act of 1996 to the internet."

That is the subject of this thread. The FCC decided it would declare ISP common carriers despite prior court rulings that ISPs are NOT common carriers. I fail to see how this could stand up in court due to prior rulings. The Internet is not a telephone operation save DSL which was already deregulated as such.

All I have to say is those that claim I don't "get it" have nothing to back it up. This talk about "where was I" in 2000-2005? WTF are you talking about??? Again, WHAT REGULATION? You mean ATTEMPTS to regulate that were struck down by the courts??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I think it's clear who doesn't know WTF they're talking about on here and it's not me.

As I already said, I'm not opposed to some Net Neutrality rules, but they need to be concise, limited and passed as a LAW, not a FCC ruling. The courts have backed this up so far. But the idea that there cannot be SOME private high speed lanes on the Internet is also absurd. As long as customers have Net Neutral alternatives, I don't see why a business who pays to connect to the Internet cannot offer faster services to individuals willing to pay for it. Should we all be forced to drive Volvos? Should my Netflix 4K experience be RUINED by a bunch of people playing Tux Racer because of "Net Neutrality" rules when it's possible to offer multiple ISPs, some with and some without Net Neutrality. No, a SLOW INTERNET IS A CRAPPY INTERNET.

The best solution (as would have been with health care) is to offer a Net Neutral government run alternative. If you like it, get it. If you prefer a private offering, get it. The competition would do us all good.

All that and you still don't understand the issue. The courts said they couldn't regulate them because the FCC made a bad decision to classify ISPs as information services instead of a telecom. They said in the last ruling, if you want to enforce regulation, you need to reclassify. They did. Now the FCC can do it's job. Also, this doesn't regulate the internet. This regulated the ISPs. It cannot and will not give the FCC any power the law doesn't already give it. The FCC can't and won't make the ISPs change their pricing or bandwidth levels. This is only a way to make sure the ISPs won't block or throttle traffic of any internet services to give themselves or anyone an advantage over other internet services. Now you know... and knowing is half the battle.
 
This is just another attempt by the executive branch to rule and legislate all by itself...a work around Congress.

This should be dealt with properly by Congress and hopefully will be done soon!!
 
I guess reason is in the ear of the beholder....lol
If you have no respect for Ludwig Von Mises and really think that most people are well informed on the issue of net neutrality then be my guest. :rolleyes:

Perhaps the worst offense is misusing his quotes to apply to this issue.

As bad as some things may be, nothing he said reflects what is happening today.

To say so is hyperbole, and that is what I have no respect for.
 
This is just another attempt by the executive branch to rule and legislate all by itself...a work around Congress.

This should be dealt with properly by Congress and hopefully will be done soon!!

When congress blocks everything that needs to get done, then you have to use other entirely legal means to do the job you were elected to do. Which hasn't been all that out of the ordinary really. Unless you watch the crazy fox people trying to make the president into a criminal. And if this congress "fixes" this, the President will veto it and the people who voted to fix it, will loose their seat. Because this is something the the majority of people have been saying they wanted for many years. Oh, and a side note The ACA (Obama care) is a success and well liked by a majority. True story.
 
I guess reason is in the ear of the beholder....lol
If you have no respect for Ludwig Von Mises and really think that most people are well informed on the issue of net neutrality then be my guest. :rolleyes:

Joe, you and several others have convinced me that there are numerous, obstinate people that know nothing about this issue and are determined to remain that way. In the face of clear explanations you and others embrace your own paranoias and run with them. Wow.
 
Joe, you and several others have convinced me that there are numerous, obstinate people that know nothing about this issue and are determined to remain that way. In the face of clear explanations you and others embrace your own paranoias and run with them. Wow.

Well well...don't you feel all better now that you have insulted somebody. When all else fails use ad hominem attacks.

Just because you seem to trust the gvt not to mess things up and other people don't doesn't make me or anybody else paranoid. But saying so does make you an a**
 
Well well...don't you feel all better now that you have insulted somebody. When all else fails use ad hominem attacks.

Just because you seem to trust the gvt not to mess things up and other people don't doesn't make me or anybody else paranoid. But saying so does make you an a**

The facts have been explained and re-explained throughout this entire thread. However, as the old saying goes, 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'. We've presented the facts over the past 15+ years on this issue, but we can't force you to read it. So by all means, continue to live and wallow in your cesspool of misinformation. when you decide to read and get informed, we'll be here.

Again, for your reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_the_United_States

Pay attention to sections 1.1 - 1.10. Consider yourself re-informed.

BL.
 
This is just another attempt by the executive branch to rule and legislate all by itself...a work around Congress.

This should be dealt with properly by Congress and hopefully will be done soon!!

Dude, if you can't even come up with something that has any bearing of a resemblance to this case, it might be better to just not talk. You aren't making yourself look more intelligent. Quite to the contrary, in fact.

Here, I'll help you out:

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/rulemaking-process-fcc#q12
12. What is the role of Congress in the rulemaking process?

Under the Congressional Review Act, agencies must submit final rules to Congress. After submission, Congress can begin a process to overturn the rule. Congress can also use a variety of processes as part of its oversight of agency action, including holding hearings, issuing reports, or adopting legislation.

The FCC is not "working around Congress". This is specifically detailed as the way they make their rules.

Please, educate yourself before attempting to denigrate others with your incorrect knowledge.
 
When the democrats rammed through the Affordable Health Care Act my insurance rates doubled. What in the hell is Affordable about that?

Forgive me if I am skeptical about the honesty and transparency of our leaders
to do what they purport they are going to do with "net neutrality"

I don't think that the official ruling has even been released so there might be some surprises in it. Hopefully not.
 
Unless you watch the crazy fox people trying to make the president into a criminal.

you mean - http://youtu.be/jofNR_WkoCE

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When the democrats rammed through the Affordable Health Care Act my insurance rates doubled. What in the hell is Affordable about that?

Have you shopped around?

I don't think that the official ruling has even been released so there might be some surprises in it. Hopefully not.

They are legally obliged to release it....
 
All I can say after reading through this thread is WOW. I am really shocked that so many people are misinformed on a subject like net neutrality, on a forum which is based on computer use.

It astounds me the level of paranoia that some people on this thread show.

It’s always wise to be a bit skeptical, but some people come across as living in fear of the “black helicopters”
Please remember people not everything is a conspiracy.:cool:
 
From those ignorant to the issue. We await your tour schedule.

BL.

The number of people believing the government is doing something good is quite predictable, given the administration's success influencing those who only have marginal knowledge of the Constitution and how government is_supposed to work. Nor do most even care as long as their entitlements keep flowing.

Much of what is being changed is via executive order, circumventing the system and done solely for the Kings pleasure. Reshaping a once strong country into a soft apologetic, offend no one bend over and take it, anything in the name of pleasing and growing the liberal voter base, chaotic state. It's mr cool doing anything he wishes anytime anyplace. It's good to be the supreme leader...
“President Obama’s plan marks a monumental shift toward government control of the Internet. It gives the FCC the power to micromanage virtually every aspect of how the Internet works,” Pai said. “The plan explicitly opens the door to billions of dollars in new taxes on broadband… These new taxes will mean higher prices for consumers and more hidden fees that they have to pay.”

In his initial cursory overview of the plan, the commissioner said it would hinder broadband investment, slow network speed and expansion, limit outgrowth to rural areas of the country and reduce Internet service provider (ISP) competition.

“The plan saddles small, independent businesses and entrepreneurs with heavy-handed regulations that will push them out of the market,” Pai said. “As a result, Americans will have fewer broadband choices. This is no accident. Title II was designed to regulate a monopoly. If we impose that model on a vibrant broadband marketplace, a highly regulated monopoly is what we’ll get.”
http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/06/r...bamas-332-page-plan-to-regulate-the-internet/
 
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The number of people believing the government is doing something good is quite predictable, given the administration's success influencing those who only have marginal knowledge of the Constitution and how government is_supposed to work. Nor do most even care as long as their entitlements keep flowing.

This has nothing to do with entitlements or even the White House. :confused:

Much of what is being changed is via executive order, circumventing the system and done solely for the Kings pleasure. Reshaping a once strong country into a soft apologetic, offend no one bend over and take it, anything in the name of pleasing and growing the liberal voter base, chaotic state. It's mr cool doing anything he wishes anytime anyplace. It's good to be the supreme leader...

It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. This ruling was not done by executive order. President Obama did not play any part in the decisions made by the FCC. The FCC is empowered by the Congress to do what it does. Congress gave the FCC the authority to reclassify many years ago.


As has already been stated, this is not Obama's plan. It is the FCC's plan and it isn't 332 pages long, as post #391 pointed out.

When are you going to admit that everything you've just posted is false and misleading and that you are misinformed?
 
If only I lived in some utopian dreamworld and believed that. This ruling is bad for the consumer. As are so many 'regulations'. Do some homework and find out the reality of it.

I have done LOTS of homework. Don't get caught in your ideology. It's that putting ideology first that hurts this country. Try reality. It'll work in your favor.
 
This has nothing to do with entitlements or even the White House. :confused:



It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. This ruling was not done by executive order. President Obama did not play any part in the decisions made by the FCC. The FCC is empowered by the Congress to do what it does. Congress gave the FCC the authority to reclassify many years ago.



As has already been stated, this is not Obama's plan. It is the FCC's plan and it isn't 332 pages long, as post #391 pointed out.

When are you going to admit that everything you've just posted is false and misleading and that you are misinformed?

The administration has its hands in everything and politicize various issues in order to take control. You can deny that all you want, but it's happening as we post here. The golfer's got his hands in everything.

The only people that are misinformed are those who fail to read the material surrounding the issues from both perspectives. By remaining open minded and reading both the Democratic and Republican views I stay very well informed.

The tragedy for the victims is their propensity to assume. It's a disease running rampant here and all over in our society. Closed minded people that fail to educate themselves on the entire issue. They pick a side, then pick a fight with their opponents.

I study both sides with an open mind. It involves more time and energy yet it's essential to being well informed. I've not taken a stance on this issue horribly labeled Neutrality to dupe the public. Once the government releases the bill then we'll know what's in it. Until then one can only laugh at the idiots that pass it without reading it, or those who claim to know the truth. I've simply shared information written by others.

I don't believe in conspiracy theories nor am I paranoid as some_assume. It's not that big of a deal. A problem is something one can solve. An issue that's stuffed down our throats by the government isn't a problem it's a fact of life. An ugly fact created by nefarious selfish narcissistic thinking. Life goes on.
 
technosix said:
I study both sides with an open mind.

Clearly we can see that from your posts.


The golfer's got his hands in everything.

The number of people believing the government is doing something good is quite predictable, given the administration's success influencing those who only have marginal knowledge of the Constitution and how government is_supposed to work. Nor do most even care as long as their entitlements keep flowing.

Much of what is being changed is via executive order, circumventing the system and done solely for the Kings pleasure. Reshaping a once strong country into a soft apologetic, offend no one bend over and take it, anything in the name of pleasing and growing the liberal voter base, chaotic state. It's mr cool doing anything he wishes anytime anyplace. It's good to be the supreme leader...

http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/06/r...bamas-332-page-plan-to-regulate-the-internet/

Perhaps this issue would benefit from another apology tour :)
 
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When he brought up the golfer I was going to ask who he was referring to - Eisenhower or Wilson (Eisenhower has golfed way more rounds than Obama at 800 and Wilson played some 1200 rounds) Source

Anybody who brings up Obama’s golfing and uses it derisively can be safely ignored.
 
It's good to be ignored. :)

Carry on assuming...

No assumption necessary.

You clearly boasted about being open-minded after demonstrating exactly the opposite.

You appear to have poor self-assessment skills.

But fear not, it's a common problem.

Flawed Self-Assessment
Implications for Health, Education, and the Workplace

SUMMARY—Research from numerous corners of psychological inquiry suggests that self-assessments of skill and character are often flawed in substantive and systematic ways. We review empirical findings on the imperfect nature of self-assessment and discuss implications for three real-world domains: health, education, and the workplace.

In general, people’s self-views hold only a tenuous to modest relationship with their actual behavior and per- formance. The correlation between self-ratings of skill and actual performance in many domains is moderate to meager—indeed, at times, other people’s predictions of a person’s outcomes prove more accurate than that person’s self-predictions. In addition, people overrate themselves. On average, people say that they are ‘‘above average’’ in skill (a conclusion that defies statistical possibility), over-estimate the likelihood that they will engage in desirable behaviors and achieve favorable outcomes, furnish overly optimistic estimates of when they will complete future projects, and reach judgments with too much confidence. Several psychological processes conspire to produce flawed self-assessments.

http://persweb.wabash.edu/facstaff/hortonr/articles%20for%20class/Dunning%20heath%20and%20suls%20flawed.pdf
 
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<snip>By remaining open minded and reading both the Democratic and Republican views I stay very well informed. </snip>

The two sides you refer to a only variations on a theme. The view you are embracing is skewed. If you tried to balancing Fox News with the NY Times you will still think have thought invading Iraq was good and necessary. There were clearer perspectives out there. Balance Fox with Democracy Now! or something a little more than slightly left of center

<snip>I've not taken a stance on this issue horribly labeled Neutrality to dupe the public. </snip>
This is my favorite. I don't need to take a stance on this. It is impressively self contradictory.
 
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