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Feasibility of New Solid Aluminum Manufacturing Process?
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I agree that machining is common for production, just not with the size, volume, and probably complexity of something like a laptop case. I accept that I might be wrong in this, but I have rarely if ever seen a high-production part for a consumer product of the size and detail of a laptop casing that was individually machined from a blank. When you consider the simplicity and relative expense of other machined parts for other industries - bike parts for example (yeah, I'm into bikes - could you tell? lol) - and then apply that to a much more complex form such as a laptop casing, I just can't see how you'd get the costs down enough to justify it. Not to mention the gains (minor, if any) from using a vastly more complicated process, and material-intensive process even factoring automation and recycling.
I've never witnessed waterjets at work, but for some reason I'm having a hard time imagining some man/machine repetitively hollowing out a brick of alu around 14"x9" down to a wall thickness of a few mm, and then subsequently machining out the port sockets, key sockets, hinge areas, etcetera - it just seems far fetched for a part that probably needs to cost under $20 (and likely a LOT less than that).
What kind of electronics casings do you machine? Just curious... if they're expensive, they're probably nifty... and I've got a soft spot for nifty
I am Sick and Tired...
of hearing all the stuff surrounding the past dates and the future possible dates of maybe possibly something being brought to into the light. I'm tired of hearing about the same thing over and over and over... Tired of checking this site and no matter what the thread, it always boils down to the same damn thing. Don't you guys ever just get tired of it? I mean, I am just as excited as the next person in the hopes of new Macbooks to be released soon, but these forums wear me out...
Go ahead and bash at me all you like... I have my box of tissues ready...
of hearing all the stuff surrounding the past dates and the future possible dates of maybe possibly something being brought to into the light. I'm tired of hearing about the same thing over and over and over... Tired of checking this site and no matter what the thread, it always boils down to the same damn thing. Don't you guys ever just get tired of it? I mean, I am just as excited as the next person in the hopes of new Macbooks to be released soon, but these forums wear me out...
Go ahead and bash at me all you like... I have my box of tissues ready...
I just wonder... how strong does it really need to be? Even with half-decent internal shock-mounting, dropping or whacking an indestructable case filled with electronics and screens and an HDD is likely to damage something. There's a point at which something's simply strong enough for the typical usage scenario, after which you're just in the territory of overkill or pure aesthetics, and start needing to compromise other aspects of the usability - like weight, serviceability, and cost. The current MBPs have got to be already approaching or at that point.
It's all about balance and hitting the right compromises.
Well, gosh...
It's pretty interesting that I am totally wrong when 3 of our clients are machine shops. One uses computer controlled abrasive water jets to cut flat steel into intricate parts that are then welded together, one uses CNC machines to make molds for injection and die casting of a wide variety of items and the other uses CAD drawings to incorporate into programs to create the CNC code (or sometimes they draw them with the CNC software) to drive their equipment to make an extremely wide variety of parts for their clients. They use titanium, aluminum, steel, copper and brass as raw material. An abrasive jet can not do the same job that an end mill can.
I had no idea that there was an expert here though. In the end, the part needs to be 'CNC'ed'. When you are done, the CAD drawing is nearly useless if you know CNC code. Regarding the magnesium comment, I was poking fun at the scorching my legs often endure due to the HEAT of the thing while it's running. Yes magnesium DOES burn at a much lower temperature than most other common used metals. It also has the property of exploding and burning fiercer when exposed to water in the attempt to extinguish it.
The second and third clients use dual core Xeon systems to do their programming. They also design and program in 3-D.
But, I bow to your 'higher' intelligence.
It's pretty interesting that I am totally wrong when 3 of our clients are machine shops. One uses computer controlled abrasive water jets to cut flat steel into intricate parts that are then welded together, one uses CNC machines to make molds for injection and die casting of a wide variety of items and the other uses CAD drawings to incorporate into programs to create the CNC code (or sometimes they draw them with the CNC software) to drive their equipment to make an extremely wide variety of parts for their clients. They use titanium, aluminum, steel, copper and brass as raw material. An abrasive jet can not do the same job that an end mill can.
I had no idea that there was an expert here though. In the end, the part needs to be 'CNC'ed'. When you are done, the CAD drawing is nearly useless if you know CNC code. Regarding the magnesium comment, I was poking fun at the scorching my legs often endure due to the HEAT of the thing while it's running. Yes magnesium DOES burn at a much lower temperature than most other common used metals. It also has the property of exploding and burning fiercer when exposed to water in the attempt to extinguish it.
The second and third clients use dual core Xeon systems to do their programming. They also design and program in 3-D.
But, I bow to your 'higher' intelligence.
Umm...
With a CNC'ed case, you have the ability for more control over how much material that you leave, or have, in certain areas. I've seen, and felt, notebooks that were so cheesy that I thought I could twist them and break them. Using metal affords the opportunity to strengthen the shell without sacrificing any durability but weight could still end up being an issue.
I would doubt that machining would play a major part in this new design. If you had 'lights out' robotic machining and ran 24x7 you might be able to keep the price down but the complexity could be a real issue. I don't think it's impossible, just rather impractical and exotic. Still, if they could pull it off, it would be a trip to see... It would be a hot and likely expensive product.
As far as 'strong'. If you can find a ToughBook, one of the real hardened models, you will feel a tough computer (also a heavy one too).
I also wish you all could see my spouses MBP. It's got dings, scratches and a couple of dents. I'm surprised that it still works. They have it in a case when they travel but somehow it comes back with a few more love taps and road rash... I wonder what happens to that thing on the road and I'm glad that I don't know... That poor thing came back from Mexico with some major damage on the hinge area and it still worked! They are worth every penny in my book. Sexy and durable too. That's the reason why I bought one and use Fusion when I need that walk in the darkside stuff... ;-) It's the main reason that I resold my MacBook. I was afraid it wouldn't last...
With a CNC'ed case, you have the ability for more control over how much material that you leave, or have, in certain areas. I've seen, and felt, notebooks that were so cheesy that I thought I could twist them and break them. Using metal affords the opportunity to strengthen the shell without sacrificing any durability but weight could still end up being an issue.
I would doubt that machining would play a major part in this new design. If you had 'lights out' robotic machining and ran 24x7 you might be able to keep the price down but the complexity could be a real issue. I don't think it's impossible, just rather impractical and exotic. Still, if they could pull it off, it would be a trip to see... It would be a hot and likely expensive product.
As far as 'strong'. If you can find a ToughBook, one of the real hardened models, you will feel a tough computer (also a heavy one too).
I also wish you all could see my spouses MBP. It's got dings, scratches and a couple of dents. I'm surprised that it still works. They have it in a case when they travel but somehow it comes back with a few more love taps and road rash... I wonder what happens to that thing on the road and I'm glad that I don't know... That poor thing came back from Mexico with some major damage on the hinge area and it still worked! They are worth every penny in my book. Sexy and durable too. That's the reason why I bought one and use Fusion when I need that walk in the darkside stuff... ;-) It's the main reason that I resold my MacBook. I was afraid it wouldn't last...
I don't at all debate the rationale behind using metal - the MBP, and it's predecessors, have aptly demonstrated that it performs well for the application. I know what you mean about cheesy laptops as well - low-end HPs feel like a f'n kindertoy, for example you can twist and deflect them FAR too easily.
I totally agree with every advantage cited for using CNC - i simply debate that the need is high enough to justify the cost and increased work involved... it's not like the existing solution is structurally inadequate, and any gains in strength would likely be marginal - at least in the context of how a laptop is designed to be used.
An expensive move from 'rarely fails' to 'never fails' in a single part of a complex product nearly never happens - just look at expensive automobiles, and the rate of part failure causing death in even very expensive cars. If simply making something perfect were enough, every manufacturer would undertake 'perfection' as their universal manufacturing tolerance. Sadly, economics come into play, and a certain rate of failure is acceptable.
I'm merely wondering 'out-loud' if MBP casings are really failing at a high enough rate to justify a more labour intensive, exotic, and costly fabrication method as a solution.
I find it more likely that any differentiation to their manufacturing approach will be undertaken for aesthetics, and then still with a financially-conservative approach.
This cracked me up
That's exactly why I need one! I was in a car accident 2 years ago that annihilated the screen on my 12" ibook - luckily insurance covered it, and the screen was replaced. Astonishing, though, that the polycarb case didn't crack. I've always wondered if the screen would have survived if it was a powerbook instead.
I agree that machining is common for production, just not with the size, volume, and probably complexity of something like a laptop case. I accept that I might be wrong in this, but I have rarely if ever seen a high-production part for a consumer product of the size and detail of a laptop casing that was individually machined from a blank. When you consider the simplicity and relative expense of other machined parts for other industries - bike parts for example (yeah, I'm into bikes - could you tell? lol) - and then apply that to a much more complex form such as a laptop casing, I just can't see how you'd get the costs down enough to justify it. Not to mention the gains (minor, if any) from using a vastly more complicated process, and material-intensive process even factoring automation and recycling.
I've never witnessed waterjets at work, but for some reason I'm having a hard time imagining some man/machine repetitively hollowing out a brick of alu around 14"x9" down to a wall thickness of a few mm, and then subsequently machining out the port sockets, key sockets, hinge areas, etcetera - it just seems far fetched for a part that probably needs to cost under $20 (and likely a LOT less than that).
What kind of electronics casings do you machine? Just curious... if they're expensive, they're probably nifty... and I've got a soft spot for nifty
I make housings for amplifiers that go in cell base stations for a local RF engineer. Pretty straightforward machining.
My personal belief is that you are correct, but, I hold out that Apple has figured out how to do this a large and massively automated scale. Biggest issue is that tiny features are generally the most time consuming and there would be fair quantities of those features.
I was watching this PBS Nova program called "x-Planes" which was about the joint strike fighter program. Most parts, bulkheads, ribs and such are machined from solid, and they showed a 5 ton piece of titanium for a bulkhead being machined to a 300 lb piece.
It took 5 months.
This will be the last apple blog rumor/post BS I read if they dont come out october 14th. What a waste of time. Waiting, waiting, waiting...
I sold my macbook pro 2 months ago and they just keep pushing back the date for when they think they'll come out. October 14th falls as a perfect date for it all, the time between refreshes, holiday season, etc. it should still come.
I mean, if they dont oct.14th then its going to be at Macworld. I personally thing they should release them now, and release minor updates (if anything) at macworld, maybe a tablet or something else multi-touch. but I think Macworld will be all about Snow Leopard and minor upgrades to maximize 64 bit architecture.
Anyway, enough with this crap.
COME OUT OCTOBER 14! I NEED IT TO!
I sold my macbook pro 2 months ago and they just keep pushing back the date for when they think they'll come out. October 14th falls as a perfect date for it all, the time between refreshes, holiday season, etc. it should still come.
I mean, if they dont oct.14th then its going to be at Macworld. I personally thing they should release them now, and release minor updates (if anything) at macworld, maybe a tablet or something else multi-touch. but I think Macworld will be all about Snow Leopard and minor upgrades to maximize 64 bit architecture.
Anyway, enough with this crap.
COME OUT OCTOBER 14! I NEED IT TO!
Bluetooth sure. USB - you still got ports, which would be your gunk problem. although i never had gunk in any of my ports...
As far as bent pins... Think about how Dell does their docking through a 1 highspeed D shaped port and also how the old parallel printers used to connect to the cable on the printer side. No Pins, but rather slides together almost like a USB.
Now apple could take that similar concept and apply it here. the tablet slides in on rails and into the port.
Apple would do it with Magnets.
I wonder why they didn't build a couple of optic fibres into the magpower connector, then pump usb3 or firewire data over that. You could then run almost any service the user wanted over that, second screen, keyboard anything.
if this is true then the MB and MBP would cost more than the air which is 1800 and that is made of aluminum!
Hurt them? The stock is already down almost 60% from its high. You think its going back to $10?
Time to buy!
I prefer the strategy theory: "Bricking" prices to compete with the increasing sub $1k market.
It's simple, it's in line with what we already know based on Jobs' own words, it doesn't require a miracle of engineering and quite honestly, in the currently financial climate/crisis, it's the one thing that might keep people with limited spending power (that means joe bloggs, not you & I) buying Apple products.
This is retarded s***t written by a reporter that has never opened a computer. What does he think the mother board and hdd etc will be made all fro the same piece? STUPID!
This is retarded s***t written by a reporter that has never opened a computer. What does he think the mother board and hdd etc will be made all fro the same piece? STUPID!
*facepalm*
This is retarded s***t written by a reporter that has never opened a computer. What does he think the mother board and hdd etc will be made all fro the same piece? STUPID!
Uh.... you do realize that you can make something hollow and then slide other things into it, right? Right. Thought you did.
Somehow I doubt that they've codenamed a strategy using a colloquialism that isn't even in the common parlance.
I'm of the belief that the brick is a noun (as in 'brick) not a pseudo-verb, (as in 'bricking'), and refers to a physical product, not some utterly abstract reference to a sales strategy. Apple's a product company, not a naming-abstract-and-unmarketable-strategies-random-things company.
Apple's only ever been marginally concerned with people with limited spending power - it's a premium product, and it's well priced for what it is. If they could shave even $100 off of their products across the line during the next refresh, people would still go berserk. Face it - Apple's not having problems selling stuff, and any price breaks are a bonus, not a deal-maker (or breaker).