Final Cut Pro anti-hacking protection

[jelloshotsrule]

hmm, this oughta be interesting...

i remember hearing a story about a guy walking into a police station drunk and on various drugs and asking if they can help him find his way home... should be fun to see where it goes...

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by tfaz1


Oh, OK. This is starting to make more sense. So the difference is that you sort of, what - get into stealing, right? Please... I know full well what dynamics are at play here.

I could have guessed that you were in college. I remember when I used to pontificate just to hear the sound of my own voice.

It seems to me that you feel piracy is okay if there is no profit from said applications. Maybe we do have different opinions on the subject. I'm not sure what you mean here, but I haven't paid for 95% of my current software in the last few years. I'm not ashamed of that.

As for me being in college, I think that's irrelevant to the subject. I could have brought it up for a pity plea, "But I'm a poor college student. I can't afford it." But I know better than to try those kind of antics here. I'm just as guilty as all of you in stealing software.

Who's pontificating now?

(Sorry to dredge all this nonsense up again..........)

 

[blackpeter]

I think I clued me in to your being in college is that you're full of ideas, but they are jumbled and unrefined. Contradictory even.

On one hand you say:
"What you are doing is undermining the application by using it w/o paying for it. If it is not a demo/shareware, and you are using it, then you should pay for it."

Only then to turn around and say things like:
"I haven't paid for 95% of my current software in the last few years. I'm not ashamed of that."

...huh?? Either you need to organize your thinking or see a shrink to sort out these multiple personalities.

The smartest thing you've said is this:
"It all comes down to personal ethics." (taking Philo 101 this semester?)

...exactly. Which is what this debate is all about. Not law. Maybe that distinction is confusing you?

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by tfaz1
I think I clued me in to your being in college is that you're full of ideas, but they are jumbled and unrefined. Contradictory even.

On one hand you say:
"What you are doing is undermining the application by using it w/o paying for it. If it is not a demo/shareware, and you are using it, then you should pay for it."

Only then to turn around and say things like:
"I haven't paid for 95% of my current software in the last few years. I'm not ashamed of that."

...huh?? Either you need to organize your thinking or see a shrink to sort out these multiple personalities.

The smartest thing you've said is this:
"It all comes down to personal ethics." (taking Philo 101 this semester?)

...exactly. Which is what this debate is all about. Not law. Maybe that distinction is confusing you?

I'm telling YOU why piracy is bad NO MATTER WHAT SPIN YOU PUT ON IT. Isn't law at the heart of the matter too? Ethics come about because of choices that arise due to laws/obligations. And no, I've never taken a Philo class.

I believe that people should pay for software to keep the development of programs in motion. I practice piracy. But I also want to make the point that it's illegal if you don't pay. I don't see how this is faulty/incoherent/contradictory logic. I feel strongly enough about piracy to tell others not to do it, but not enough to practice it myself.

I don't go on the street preaching this stuff or threaten to send letters to the developer stating what I'm doing. That's just plain foolish.

Stop doggin' my age. My points are as valid as anyone else's. Many quality contributers here are younger than I and haven't been to college to refine their ideas.

 

[blackpeter]

Originally posted by mc68k


I'm telling YOU why piracy is bad NO MATTER WHAT SPIN YOU PUT ON IT. Isn't law at the heart of the matter too? Ethics come about because of choices that arise due to laws/obligations. And no, I've never taken a Philo class.

I believe that people should pay for software to keep the development of programs in motion. I practice piracy. But I also want to make the point that it's illegal if you don't pay. I don't see how this is faulty/incoherent/contradictory logic. I feel strongly enough about piracy to tell others not to do it, but not enough to practice it myself.

I don't go on the street preaching this stuff or threaten to send letters to the developer stating what I'm doing. That's just plain foolish.

Getting a bit worked up huh? It's good for a young student like yourself to be passionate about things.

You aren't guilty of contradictory logic. You're guilty of contradictory ethics (and of being a little confused). Reminding you that YOU are the on who brought that term (ethics) into this debate. It's not foolish to write this letter to Adobe (which I will write once Hemmingray chimes in about what he thinks will happen - I'd just like to prove him wrong).

What is truly foolish and sophomoric (I'm not sure if you've made it to that year yet) is to feel something so "strongly" and then act in a contradictory way. This type of thinking is scary in someone so young. Reminicent of the 80's "me" generation. But I guess everything comes back around...

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by tfaz1


Getting a bit worked up huh? It's good for a young student like yourself to be passionate about things.

You aren't guilty of contradictory logic. You're guilty of contradictory ethics (and of being a little confused). Reminding you that YOU are the on who brought that term (ethics) into this debate. It's not foolish to write this letter to Adobe (which I will write once Hemmingray chimes in about what he thinks will happen - I'd just like to prove him wrong).

What is truly foolish and sophomoric (I'm not sure if you've made it to that year yet) is to feel something so "strongly" and then act in a contradictory way. This type of thinking is scary in someone so young. Reminicent of the 80's "me" generation. But I guess everything comes back around...

Whatever. I'll be a junior in the fall. I don't really care to heat this thread up any more. I can still preach what I don't practice. No harm in that.

 

[jelloshotsrule]

see i thought he was contradictory at first too, then he seemed to be just saying that he didn't like that you were making reasons for your piracy, rather than just saying "i pirate software" without giving an excuse/reason....


but now i'm just confused.

i do think you're being a bit tough on him based on his age. but his logic does seem to clash... you really can't expect others to not pirate if you don't. whether you give a reason for it or not. you can not try to hold them to a higher standard than yourself, that just doesn't fit.

if you say "piracy is bad, but i do it" i think that's different. but to look down on others for doing something you do is not logical. whether you are a college student or an old man

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
see i thought he was contradictory at first too, then he seemed to be just saying that he didn't like that you were making reasons for your piracy, rather than just saying "i pirate software" without giving an excuse/reason....

but now i'm just confused.

I don't really care one way or the other. To clear up any confusion: I pirate software. I think software piracy is bad. I have said this all along. I'm not looking down on anyone but merely just presenting the facts. I'm not really THAT passionate on this subject. I just wanted to make light of the other side of the issue because I saw that it was not being presented. Playing the Devil's Advocate, if you will.

I just don't like my age entering into anything. It was brought up last night in another thread. Can't we all just get along?

 

[jelloshotsrule]

i don't think age should come into it since both old and young say dumb or confusing things.

i guess just make sure to be clear next time. this miscommunication could have been nipped in the bud much earlier i think.

 

[blackpeter]

In other words: If you don't have anything to say, don't just make something up. You've got your whole life to hear the sound of your own voice.

Speak up to be heard.
Shut up to be appreciated.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by tfaz1
Getting a bit worked up huh? It's good for a young student like yourself to be passionate about things.

You aren't guilty of contradictory logic. You're guilty of contradictory ethics (and of being a little confused). Reminding you that YOU are the on who brought that term (ethics) into this debate. It's not foolish to write this letter to Adobe (which I will write once Hemmingray chimes in about what he thinks will happen - I'd just like to prove him wrong).

What is truly foolish and sophomoric (I'm not sure if you've made it to that year yet) is to feel something so "strongly" and then act in a contradictory way. This type of thinking is scary in someone so young. Reminicent of the 80's "me" generation. But I guess everything comes back around...

Enjoying goading those younger than ourselves, are we? Feel the need to put others down to feel better about yourself, do you?

You are trying to break this person down because they've disagreed with you. To me the logic and ethics are quite clear. It is entirely possible, nay, common, to believe one thing and behave in a contradictory manner.

At least mc68k has the guts to admit he know's what he's doing is wrong, rather than hide behind technicalities and wordplay. He feels that piracy harms software development, but since he lacks the resources to purchase software he does what he must to obtain the programs anyway.

Really, it's quite straightforward. In fact it's a much more mature standpoint than many I've seen here.

Please feel free to let me know how off base and wrong I am...I can handle it. And since you seem to make such a big deal about age/education here are my credentials:
Age - 23
SAT score - 1440
GRE scores - Q + V = 1320
BA - May, '02

 

[jelloshotsrule]

haha. rower's taking charge

i will stop defending the youngster (only 20 myself...) and let the older wiser rower take over! ha.

 

[blackpeter]

Ooh... I guess I've met my match. *yawn

I'm going to get something to eat. I'll deal with this later.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
haha. rower's taking charge

i will stop defending the youngster (only 20 myself...) and let the older wiser rower take over! ha.

Feel free to jump in anytime you want. Age is just a number, maturity is more important.

 

[jelloshotsrule]

rower: true, and that's why i'll let the guy defend himself! ha

that and the fact that he was a bit confusing, though his age had little/nothing to do with that.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
rower: true, and that's why i'll let the guy defend himself! ha

that and the fact that he was a bit confusing, though his age had little/nothing to do with that.

Software piracy is a confusing issue. Maybe he could have phrased things better, but tfaz1 went too far.

If you reread his posts, you can see that mc68k was not saying "tfaz1, you are wrong to pirate software".
He clearly said several times: I know piracy is wrong, I do it anyway, don't try to justify it to yourself as anything else.

 

[blackpeter]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU

Software piracy is a confusing issue. Maybe he could have phrased things better, but tfaz1 went too far.

Before I go on to talk more about piracy laws and ethics (which I would really love to continue to discuss) I feel as if I should address the greater issue that seems to have emerged: behavior.

So let me ask you Rower - how exactly did I go to far?

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by tfaz1
[...] So let me ask you Rower - how exactly did I go to far?

You deliberately baited/goaded him by seeking to undermine his position due to his age, which is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
You tried to agitate him and play on his emotions, thus diverting the topic from your unjustifiable piracy to his immaturity.

 

[blackpeter]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU

You deliberately baited/goaded him by seeking to undermine his position due to his age, which is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
You tried to agitate him and play on his emotions, thus diverting the topic from your unjustifiable piracy to his immaturity.

Wrong. Don't devert your true motive. This must have something to do with the topic. Which is interesting, because as much as you've talked you still haven't said a thing. Especially about piracy or ethics. But don't take this stand for the youngster's sake. I don't think it's really your fight. Let me show you why...

>>"He feels that piracy harms software development, but since he lacks the resources to purchase software he does what he must to obtain the programs anyway.
Really, it's quite straightforward. In fact it's a much more mature standpoint than many I've seen here."<<

Wait a minute. Didn't this guy just say that he knows that he's hurting people but keeps doing it? This is mature and straightforward? Boy, the bar really has been lowered. Aren't we talking about software here?

He is not Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family. This lucky SOB get's to go to college and he's stealing (not clothes - not food) software...

Now if you think I was a little rough, I'll admit it. But give me a little credit here. Recognize that I can communicate a number of levels of civility. But this guy came hard attacking my ethics with none of his own. He wanted to play hardball and I gave him hardball. He (and a few others) could stand a few more seasons in the minors.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by tfaz1
Wrong. Don't devert your true motive. This must have something to do with the topic. Which is interesting, because as much as you've talked you still haven't said a thing. Especially about piracy or ethics. But don't take this stand for the youngster's sake. I don't think it's really your fight. Let me show you why...

>>"He feels that piracy harms software development, but since he lacks the resources to purchase software he does what he must to obtain the programs anyway.
Really, it's quite straightforward. In fact it's a much more mature standpoint than many I've seen here."<<

Wait a minute. I think I must be flashing back to Phish Worcester '97. Didn't this guy just say that he knows that he's hurting people but keeps doing it? This is mature and straightforward? Aren't we talking about software?

He is not Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family. This lucky SOB get's to go to college and he's stealing (not clothes - not food) software...

Now if you think I was a little rough, I'll admit it. But give me a little credit here. Recognize that I can communicate a number of levels of civility. But this guy came hard attacking my ethics with none of his own. He wanted to play hardball and I gave him hardball. He (and a few others) could stand a few more seasons in the minors.

Thank you for the psychoanalysis! I had no idea that my "true motive" was prompting me to pretend to defend someone when really I'm just too wishy-washy to address the topic at hand. Truly amazing!

I will address the rest of your message soon. It's my turn to grab a bite and play truant for a little while...

 

[blackpeter]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU

Thank you for the psychoanalysis! I had no idea that my "true motive" was prompting me to pretend to defend someone when really I'm just too wishy-washy to address the topic at hand. Truly amazing!

Well, I wasn't going there but I'll take the credit.

You know what they say: A good therapist doesn't analyze. He leads the patient to their own analysis.

 

[Hemingray]

I gave up way back on the first page... no sense in me trying to pound home my points anymore.

tfaz1, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[blackpeter]

You too Hemm... I love the avatar. Your's and Rower's are my fav's*

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by tfaz1
The smartest thing you've said is this:
"It all comes down to personal ethics."

...exactly. Which is what this debate is all about. Not law. Maybe that distinction is confusing you?

Looks to me that you tried to steer this into a debate about ethics. This distinction is still clear: Law -> License/Pirating -> No License

But this guy came hard attacking my ethics with none of his own.

Do I have to have ethics of my own to state facts and make a point?

Especially about piracy or ethics. But don't take this stand for the youngster's sake. I don't think it's really your fight.

Trying to steer the conversation again are we...
Trying to use my age demeaningly again are we...

This lucky SOB get's to go to college and he's stealing (not clothes - not food) software...

Resorting to name-calling are we....I'm quite good at stealing software too, I quite like it
I repeat, can't we all just get along? (I believe this is the third time I've said this)

Wrong. Don't devert your true motive. This must have something to do with the topic. Which is interesting, because as much as you've talked you still haven't said a thing. Especially about piracy or ethics.

Does a thread really have to be on topic? Look at the now infamous "travis" thread. I/Rower' are attacking your attempt to steer the topic back to the original intent when in fact it now is directed towards your tactics.

 

[rainman::|:|]

WOOOO software pirating!!!

okay, not to stir things up, but i don't see the need to argue on this one... You both pirate software, anything beyond that is symantecs. Who cares what you *think* of software piracy. You can justify if to yourself if you want... that doesn't make it right, the fact is, it's still illegal. can we all agree on that?

now, who's gonna send me a copy of PS7?

lol

pnw