Final Cut Pro vs Sony Vegas, Adobe Premier, Avid, & All Others

[Takeshi]

Hello, need some advice
on Vegas vs. Final Cut Studio.

For feature film editing, what does FCP do
so well or advantage over Vegas? ie, some things
only FCP can do?

I know FCP is just better and I would get it if I had the $
but I just want to know what I'm missing out if I use something else.

I got a copy of Vegas 6 which I am trying out now.
I need to upgrade my Windows hardware, costing $700.

As a film school student, I know Vegas should
be sufficient for short movies.
BUT, I also want to make 60-90 min. features on
video and I don't want to find out later that
Vegas has some limitations and that it doesn't do
"Professional quality" work...whatever that means
when people tell me that.

I don't plan to make any SF, special effects intensive
stuff or shoot HD.

thanks so much,

"Professional quality" a term that is knocked about with the greatest of ease, but with little forethought.
In order to produce something that is truely of professional quality, you got to have the professional equipment to film it on in the first place (very very very expensive, and most people cant afford it, let alone film students) I take it your going to be using something along the lins of home video equipment to film, whether it be up market or not. With that equipment, you need a decent chopping tool, that has a system behind it that isnt going to hinder your creative outlet. i.e piss you off. If your starting out, to be honest with you, there isnt a huge amount of difference (some, not alot) between all the programmes being mentioned on this site. As you can see from the forum, everyone has their own particular preference depending on what they are using it for. You want to do features. Iv used FCP, Vegas, Pinnicle and Premier Pro for projects that last over 90 mins, and all but pinnicle handle them fine.
FCP gives you a more freedom over edits, than Vegas. If your attention to detail is paramount, then you will love FCP becasue you can get picky with cuts and transitions.
But screw it, leave getting anal about the systems for a while yet matey boy! just enjoy choppin and messing about. Like what the guy said further up the page, its not all about your tools, at this point, editing for you should be 70% heart 30%tech (to start off with at least anyway) Sooner or later you will find restrictions with whatever you are using and then you will be eager to move on and get to grips with programmes that suit you. Then the tech will come naturally. In my experience worrying to much about the hardware takes alot away from the creative enjoyment. Once i learned to not let it worry me to much, it all came together.
I have a friend that has landed an technical apprentership (mainly video editing) with BBC on the back of 2 projects which he filmed on an old AG455 SVHS, an edited on an ancient analoge system. He didnt even bother getting in a fuss about the different editing programmes available, and for what system they were used on, and how much it was all going to cost. He spent next to nothing, and used what he had available. Now hes getting paid to learn all the tech. Git.

 

[zim]

video editing? video editing is dead. you should look into muvee or check out the magic movie option in iMovie.

-just kidding

I agree with Takeshi, "professional quality" will be a product of 1. your creative ability, 2. input devices (camera etc) and then finally your editing skills but that does not mean a specific software title. I have seen some incredible works done purely in iMovie while the same with FCP and others. I know that first purchases can be a confusing decision but when it comes down to it it is how well you can conceive the project, film the project and then edit it. Everything else, software, hardware selection, etc is personal opinion, mine being FCP but I do sometimes use iMovie just for fun.

As for the comparative question of FCP and Vegas, I can't comment due to my limited knowledge of Vegas.

 

[Texas04]

What about Final Cut Express? For regular video, newscast (not live) and story editing it seems it could do the job (mac side)

 

[simie]

Free Software

HYPERENGINE-AV

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ZS4 Video Editor

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iVideo

http://ivideo.sourceforge.net/


DDClip

http://www.softlab-nsk.com/ddclipro/freetable.html

 

[virus1]

Having worked with Avid Media Composer a bit (the full blown professional Avid system), I like FCP's interface much better, but there are areas in which Avid is much more powerful. Premiere is not a bad editor at all, and was/is my choice for a Windows based NLE. That said, FCP has steadily been taking over professional market share for a reason. It actually competes well with Avid's pro systems, but it's priced VERY affordably.

I haven't used Vegas or Pinnacle's software extensively, so I don't have much of an opinion on them.

Does it bug anyone when somone says EXACTLY what you were thinking? Good job, mduser63

 

[jaduffy108]

I think is in order to comment about the rumour that at NAB Apple will unveil Final Cut Extreme... Supposedly a 10K Turnkey system to compete with the big Avid systems.

>>> Yes..and if Apple does release this "Extreme" version, it begs the question to those who feel FCP is superior to Avid now...why does Apple *need* this new system to compete with Avid? It clearly implies that FCP is inferior in some ***Pro*** areas. And ...it is.

So what do you guys think about Smoke, its been a while since I worked in it... Truth I got exasperated with it, rendered an image sequence and finished the editing in FCP 1 that I had at the time...

Nevertheless love the paint system...

>>> Smoke, Flame, fire, etc...HUGE $$$...and different animals altogether really.

peace

 

[hbvideo]

I use FCP and Media 100sw

IMHO, Final cut is great if you first learned editing on Avid because you love the low price and similarities. I started editing commercials in non-linear back in 1992 on VideoF/X, a Mac-based precursor to the modern NLEs that got the job done. In the early 90s I test-drove Avid, and Media100 and chose Media 100 because of its ease of use. It's very Mac-like and was most similar to VideoF/X.

I got on the Final Cut bandwagon because of the price. I saw it as a good choice as an auxiliary editor to Media100. However I have found nothing easier to use than Media 100.

Media 100 has gone through some changes due to past marketing mistakes. Not unlike apple. Now owned by BorisFX, I believe they are on the right track. I've been using final cut for years then I downloaded the Media100sw trial version just curious to see if Media100 had a future. Media 100sw is AWESOME. It's a software only version of Media 100. I use Final Cut very seldom now. M100sw now has many layers of video and audio like FC but they play real time on a Mac G4. FC 4.5 crashes and burns regularly on my dual 500 G4.

Media 100sw costs only $399 no I/O yet though - forthcoming maybe NAB,
so the price is right. I I/O through my old Media 100 hardware. Somewhat convoluted process but way less pain than FC. It uses the apple aqua OSX interface-really works like a user-friendly mac program which is why I prefer macs. M100sw accepts lots of codecs and plays them realtime. It's way faster than before since it doesn't have to write each frame to hardware when rendering which is really great news when using BorisFX and grafitti for titles and spfx. You have to export QT movies of the final and import them in to the hardware version. I find myself exporting movies for encoding so it's necessary anyway...and some people never go to video tape so it may be a benefit to them.

Media 100sw doesn't try to be everything to everybody like final cut. It just helps you edit short-form pieces really fast without its GUI getting in the way. Media100sw is exactly the same as Media 100HD's software interface so it's a nice way to transition to the HD hardware when you're ready. I think it's really worth checking out.

 

[MTDude]

You can download a free version of avid
http://www.avid.com/freeDV/index.asp

This is a supreme waste of time. Avid makes better products than this free program... this freebie is garbage.

 

[MTDude]

I think people are getting way to carried away with FCP. You all have to remember apple people will push their product. You wont walk into the apple store and buy your new computer and then they will say you want to edit get Premiere. Of course they will push there product(FCP). As for 90 percent of you editors out there they do the same exact thing and I believe that premiere has a much easier gui interface to getting aroudn to things and the image sequences work much better in premiere. I just feel that its like im a lexus for life man and another saying im a bmw for life. Ok also color correction, maybe its a bit stronger in fcp but most of you users on here arent doing this for there home movies , sons baseball games or even your indy films.

I know of no professional editor in Hollywood or San Francisco that will say that Premiere is better than either one.
I have been using Avid for over 10 years and have just started using FCP. It is apples (no pun) and oranges.
Pure editing... Avid.
If I want a box that "does it all on a budget"... FCP

 

[Hevs]

maybe this isn't the right place to talk about this seeing as most of you are probably mac users.. buuut.. at the momemt I am working on a half hour doco and have been both a PC and a Mac, neither of which are mine or are readily accessable for the long periods of time needed to do anything constructive in NLE.

My sponsor is looking to put forward money for the purchasing of some equipment, inc a computer for my myself and he is not convinced that a mac is necesarily the way to go because of the expense.

Being as I not a computerhead I'm finding it a little tricky to compare FCP-HD(/FC Studio - should funds be available) and a G5.. to ..PremierePro2 and a PC in terms of price vs ease & quality. its the age old value for money question... any suggestions?

 

[FF_productions]

Make a new thread and somebody will answer your question soon.

 

[interlaced]

In no means am I a "pro" but I do hope to make it into my career. The first NLE program I learned was Premiere on an old Dell a few years back. We used that simultaneously in my video editing class with After Effects. The few chosen students that made exceptional projects were allowed to use FCP on the two Macs we had so it led me to believe that FCP was a more superior program. Premiere was very easy for me to use but I only learned the basics. I then learned a few things on Avid which I found to be an amazing program.

Now I'm a total Machead and into FCP. It's a great tool and very simple to use, IMO. Despite everyone saying it's all moving to FCP, I think that Avid is a greater program. FCP's just a lot cheaper (unless you can get Avid at the academic price of only $300) so I think more people, especially indie filmmakers are going that route.

*I apologize for the redundance if this has all been mentioned in previous posts.

 

[LethalWolfe]

maybe this isn't the right place to talk about this seeing as most of you are probably mac users.. buuut.. at the momemt I am working on a half hour doco and have been both a PC and a Mac, neither of which are mine or are readily accessable for the long periods of time needed to do anything constructive in NLE.

My sponsor is looking to put forward money for the purchasing of some equipment, inc a computer for my myself and he is not convinced that a mac is necesarily the way to go because of the expense.

Being as I not a computerhead I'm finding it a little tricky to compare FCP-HD(/FC Studio - should funds be available) and a G5.. to ..PremierePro2 and a PC in terms of price vs ease & quality. its the age old value for money question... any suggestions?

Final Cut Pro is no longer sold alone, you can only buy Final Cut Studio. I haven't used PP so I can't comment on it, but FCP and Avid are, by and large, the most used apps for things like movies, docs, TV shows, and commercials. Premiere's user base tends to be more corporate/industrial and event videography based.

And considering FCP offers nearly everything that Avid does at a fraction of the price that's one reason why FCP has, in the last few years, started displacing Avid so much.


Lethal

 

[Mojo67821]

I learned non-linear editing on a combo of both fcp and ppro. In my opinion they are pretty comparable. When premiere updated to it's "pro" versions it went a long way towards bridging the gap between fcp and itself. I like both for most of the professional editing I do. their affordability and ease of use have helped to fuel a revolution in independent film.

I work at a TV station and have used a 60,000 dollar AVID suite. For what they do, editing pretty simple commercials and promos, it's the biggest waste of money I have ever seen. A final cut system for less than 10,000 could do everything they are doing there. It's funny actually.

I can't stand AVID. I find the user interface to be incredibly UN-user friendly. Having to switch between modes on the timeline is the worst... I swear it was designed specifically to slow me down. AVID may have been the big daddy in the early days of NLE's, but a combo of fcp, ppro and after effects has made it obselete

 

[solvs]

its the age old value for money question... any suggestions?

Premier may be a little easier, and PCs can be cheaper, but that's not the best way to determine what you need. My advice would be a high end Intel Mac and FCP, with educational discount if available. I'm using an iMac with FCE and it's much better IMO than a custom made PC with any other video editor I've used. And I've used most of them. Not going to say everything is always easy and instantaneous, but there's reason so many of us like Macs.

 

[2jaded2care]

I've used Media 100 and Premiere (OS 9) in the past; I now use Avid Xpress Pro on a daily basis. (Ive been looking at Avid's new software-only Media Composer, though!)

My thinking on learning NLEs was that I wanted to concentrate on the one that would do me the most good if I had to go out and survive freelance or try to land a "real" permanent gig somewhere -- why not? That would be, as jaduffy108 and 3dit3r pointed out earlier, Avid. It probably has 70-80 percent of the pro market. (There are some things I don't like about the Avid interface, but I could say that about any of them.)

I do understand financial considerations, and FCP is definitely in the game. (Nevertheless, I'll repeat my pet peeve/mantra: What the hell is a "canvas"? It's "source" and "record"!)

Premiere and Vegas I don't think are considered serious challengers in the "pro" market... But then again, as someone pointed out, they are all just tools. You can use whatever the hell you want to (or have to), as long as it does the job you need it to do.

 

[Mojo67821]

I've used Media 100 and Premiere (OS 9) in the past; I now use Avid Xpress Pro on a daily basis. (Ive been looking at Avid's new software-only Media Composer, though!)

My thinking on learning NLEs was that I wanted to concentrate on the one that would do me the most good if I had to go out and survive freelance or try to land a "real" permanent gig somewhere -- why not? That would be, as jaduffy108 and 3dit3r pointed out earlier, Avid. It probably has 70-80 percent of the pro market. (There are some things I don't like about the Avid interface, but I could say that about any of them.)

I do understand financial considerations, and FCP is definitely in the game. (Nevertheless, I'll repeat my pet peeve/mantra: What the hell is a "canvas"? It's "source" and "record"!)

Premiere and Vegas I don't think are considered serious challengers in the "pro" market... But then again, as someone pointed out, they are all just tools. You can use whatever the hell you want to (or have to), as long as it does the job you need it to do.

I think that you can do pro material with Premiere. The latest version is pretty powerful, I dont think I've ever had to render anything to preview, which is an immense help.

I agree to a point what you are saying about having to know AVID to get into the pro market, but I think that is changing. I was looking into relocating to florida recently, and within an hour of looking on line I found 5 to 6 pro level jobs that required use of either fcp or ppro and after effects. I think the market is shifting and realizing that AVID is overpriced.

 

[virus1]

I've tried it before but was not impressed. I think I'll wait to try a full version before I pass judgement on Avid.

i got the exact same impression, except i am not interested in buying a full version of avid.

fcp all the way. premier used to be crap. now it is rotten crap.

 

[tipdrill407]

Final Cut Studio v.s. Avid

I've used by Final Cut Studio and Avid and they both have about the same amount of strengths and weaknesses. The User interface is similar in various aspects so the Final Cut vs. Avid thing is really just based on personal preference. If you're on a tight budget I would go with Final Cut Studio, because of it's incredible value, For just over a $1000 you get all the tools you need for professional video editing. A similar avid system costs about $1800.

 

[odedia]

I used to work with Sony Vegas back when it was still soundforge vegas, and I must say that it is one excellent piece of software. You can learn to edit just by playing with the system, everything is just so easy and the real-time rendering is great as well. Features like dynamic RT that are only now avaliabe with FCP 5 were avaliable in Vegas since I can remember it.

It's really nice to have the ability to boot into windows now on your mac and try out new software.

 

[Counterfit]

I think people are getting way to carried away with FCP. You all have to remember apple people will push their product. You wont walk into the apple store and buy your new computer and then they will say you want to edit get Premiere. Of course they will push there product(FCP).

I think it helps that Adobe doesn't even make Premiere for the Mac anymore.

 

[Mojo67821]

I think it helps that Adobe doesn't even make Premiere for the Mac anymore.

They actually do... or at least will be. From what I understand they're bringing Premiere Pro back to Mac's.

 

[Counterfit]

They actually do... or at least will be. From what I understand they're bringing Premiere Pro back to Mac's.

No, they don't currently, and unless you have a source for "will be", it's a bunch of bull.

 

[corywoolf]

I used to use Premiere before FCP came out - and I bought FCP V1.0 and haven't looked back. Although, now Premiere isn't available for Mac anymore.

D

Premiere will be available for the mac in the next version of the Adobe Production Suite (due sometime in early '07), that will also include all the other Adobe video apps.

 

[zim]

No, they don't currently, and unless you have a source for "will be", it's a bunch of bull.

Adobe will be returning with Premiere. I posted info on the new Premiere and CS3 info a while back. The info came from an Adobe survey where they revealed their entire line up for CS3. Sure, there is a possibility that the info in the survey was false but I think based on other findings that I have read, Premier is heading back this way... regardless of it's come back, I am a FCP user and have no plans on changing that anytime soon. I also question as to how many FCP users who were once Premier users would be willing to switch back. Software is a matter of preference, it does not define the art.