Final Cut Pro vs Sony Vegas, Adobe Premier, Avid, & All Others

[Mojo67821]

Premiere will be available for the mac in the next version of the Adobe Production Suite (due sometime in early '07), that will also include all the other Adobe video apps.

Thank you. I'm not sure why Counterfit felt the need to flame me, but obviously what I heard wasn't a "bunch of bull".

Now that I think about it, I think I heard it from someone who works at my local apple store... not the most reliable source I know, but that at least means he was told it by someone official.

Anyways, I can't see myself switching. I'm not in love with either PPRo of FC enough to have a preference... my preference depends on which operating system is more readily available to me. And since I just switched to Mac, FC is the way I"m going to go.

 

[Bakey]

Thank you. I'm not sure why Counterfit felt the need to flame me, but obviously what I heard wasn't a "bunch of bull".

Now that I think about it, I think I heard it from someone who works at my local apple store... not the most reliable source I know, but that at least means he was told it by someone official.

... Riiiggghhttttttttttt! Errrr.... okey dokey Don!!! Sure it means he was told by someone official - or failing that he also read it some months ago on one of the many rumors sites! Such as this one... 🙄

Somehow I seriously, seriously doubt Adobe Sys. will be launching Premiere Pro on Mac! C'mon it's be 'a while' since they dropped Premiere from their Mac line-up and no doubt p!ssed off quite a number of Mac Premiere users who no doubt have either made the switch to another app or currently evaluating the likes of Avid, Final Cut, etc.

Why on earth would a Mac Premiere user put their faith into the rumor that Adobe just might be releasing that new version for Mac when there's been no concrete proof of such an event actually 'for definite' happening?!?

As for the rest of the Adobe Video Collection making its way to Mac, trust me forget it! The likes of Encore DVD are simply atrocious, there's a couple of nice bits within it that I'd like to see brought over into DVDSP; but seriously it's lousy. [I've used it since v1.0 thru 1.5 to 2.0 -- buggy is an understatement!]

Maybe Audition would be a nice app to have across, but then again there's already Soundtrack Pro!!!

Hey ho... 😉

 

[Mojo67821]

... Riiiggghhttttttttttt! Errrr.... okey dokey Don!!! Sure it means he was told by someone official - or failing that he also read it some months ago on one of the many rumors sites! Such as this one... 🙄

Somehow I seriously, seriously doubt Adobe Sys. will be launching Premiere Pro on Mac! C'mon it's be 'a while' since they dropped Premiere from their Mac line-up and no doubt p!ssed off quite a number of Mac Premiere users who no doubt have either made the switch to another app or currently evaluating the likes of Avid, Final Cut, etc.

Why on earth would a Mac Premiere user put their faith into the rumor that Adobe just might be releasing that new version for Mac when there's been no concrete proof of such an event actually 'for definite' happening?!?

Hey ho... 😉

Not sure why you're so ridiculously hostile over such a benign topic, but I'm pretty confident that it's going to happen.

Can we get back on topic now?

 

[dke211]

Vegas

I use vegas alot and have only played with FC a very little bit, having said that
a friend of mine and my self did a presentation of FCP and vegas side by side for a professional group.
I made some observations while watching my friend show off FCP

1. Vegas has far* better built in audio abilities - this is not surprizing as it started out its life as an audio processing program (sound forge)

2. Vegas has far* better built in compositing than FC, however since FC is usually used in conjunction with something like after effects, this is not that great of an advantage.

3.Vegas seems to take "its all here" as opposed to "One part of a suite" approach. There are advantages to both.

4. Vegas/pc is probably going to be cheaper to get into as opposed to FCP/mac because PC is commodity hardware where mac is propriatary.

5. Sony has purchased Vegas from sonic foundry and they are pouring a LOT of time and money into it.

My conclusions:

1. If you have an investment in hardware already, I cant see buying new hardware to use eather FC or Vegas.

2. Lots more people are using FC then Vegas at the moment, that may justify switching - but only to be compatable on a project.

3. Given the same quality source, the finished product will depend more on the editors than the programs

4. Vegas has a faster work flow because its all in one spot and integrated, that may come at the price of some flexability.


Thats my 2 cents worth

 

[Bakey]

Not sure why you're so ridiculously hostile over such a benign topic, but I'm pretty confident that it's going to happen.

Can we get back on topic now?

Hostile! Me? No, no, no!! Although so unconvinced am I of it never re-appearing [although in the case of Premiere Pro it would technically be appearing for the first time on Mac] I'll buy you a copy myself should it do so!! Seriously, you can hold me to that!!!

Anyway yeah sure, let's get back on topic -- although to be fair having re-read the thread I'd say the question/query has been pretty much answered, ie. each and every NLE is capable [and not so capable] in many of the intended arenas. But, a lot of it rests at the feet of the editor rather than editing application - and by this I mean to try and break free of the confines of the application at hand and not to be/feel restricted by it. This one golden nugget was the key point learnt in my Uni days and I try my hardest to stick to it [well, most of the time at least].

Right, I'm off... 😀

 

[jaysmith]

I think people are getting way to carried away with FCP. You all have to remember apple people will push their product. You wont walk into the apple store and buy your new computer and then they will say you want to edit get Premiere. Of course they will push there product(FCP). As for 90 percent of you editors out there they do the same exact thing and I believe that premiere has a much easier gui interface to getting aroudn to things and the image sequences work much better in premiere. I just feel that its like im a lexus for life man and another saying im a bmw for life. Ok also color correction, maybe its a bit stronger in fcp but most of you users on here arent doing this for there home movies , sons baseball games or even your indy films.

fcp is one of the few high-end nle's available for mac, so of course its going to be preferred by mac users. unless you want to go back a few years in technology and use premiere 6.5, then fcp is the standard.

i've found in the last few years that colour corrention is key to making the final project better, so i like the fact that fcp lets me tinker in a proffessional way. new users may not know all the bells and whistles when they first start out, but its nice to know that the features are all there if you need them.

that being said, fcp is my favourite nle out today.

 

[Bakey]

Hostile! Me? No, no, no!! Although so convinced am I of it never re-appearing [although in the case of Premiere Pro it would technically be appearing for the first time on Mac] I'll buy you a copy myself should it do so!! Seriously, you can hold me to that!!!

Anyway yeah sure, let's get back on topic -- although to be fair having re-read the thread I'd say the question/query has been pretty much answered, ie. each and every NLE is capable [and not so capable] in many of the intended arenas. But, a lot of it rests at the feet of the editor rather than editing application - and by this I mean to try and break free of the confines of the application at hand and not to be/feel restricted by it. This one golden nugget was the key point learnt in my Uni days and I try my hardest to stick to it [well, most of the time at least].

Right, I'm off... 😀

Edit :: Removed the colloquial double-negative!!

 

[Cross]

Having worked with Premiere (I hated it), Vegas Video and now FCP5 I must say Vegas is my Fav.

I am having so much trouble just getting the ease of use down with FCP comapred to Vegas. I love the flag features, editing time lines. Vegas is just straight forward, easy to use and I love it.

FCP is powerful but coming from Vegas 6 to FCP5 is a nightmare I can not even get the simplest things to work (Which I am making a thread on here shortly).

Vegas Video is the ONLY reason I would very run Windows on a Mac or buy a Windows Desktop again. FCP is really trying my patenice but then Being ADHD thats not all that hard to do at times lol.

I am sure once I understand the functions I want to do in FCP I will really enjoy it but until then I am just sitting here wishing Vegas ran on OS X.

 

[Thomas Veil]

This horse has been kicked to death. AVID first, FCP second is good advice for those wanting a career as an editor.

BUT....If you're not 100%... truly passionate about it..or don't have an Uncle in the Industry...VERY TOUGH ROAD in my opinion.

I'll endorse that. I "only" work in the professional field (cable, industrial, etc.), but yes, Avid is still first and FCP a close second. And yup, it's a really tough field to get into, and tough to advance in.

Now, this is just my opinion, but despite Avid having so much of the market, it's gotta be one of the worst editing programs on the market from an ease-of-use standpoint. Big learning curve, clunky interface, non-intuitive controls....

My personal favorite -- though it's a way-distant runner-up -- is Media 100. It's easy to learn, it's intuitive, and the interface is very well-integrated into OS X -- yes, even better than FCP itself.

At one point, Media 100 actually had a bigger install base than Avid, but Avid made some advances that grabbed ahold of the broadcast industry, and when that happened, it was all over for Media 100. It's still around, still terrific software (and hardware), but it'll never enjoy the position it once had.

 

[rand()]

Now, this is just my opinion, but despite Avid having so much of the market, it's gotta be one of the worst editing programs on the market from an ease-of-use standpoint. Big learning curve, clunky interface, non-intuitive controls....

My personal favorite -- though it's a way-distant runner-up -- is Media 100. It's easy to learn, it's intuitive, and the interface is very well-integrated into OS X -- yes, even better than FCP itself.

I think that from a learning standpoint, it is *the best* to learn on an Avid first - primarily for this reason. Once you learn and develop skills in the Avid know-your-damn-keyboard workflow, your workflow speed triples. It's incredible - and you can apply this learned skill subsequently to any other NLE out there.

On top of that, the Avid 'metaphor' is much closer to that of old-style film splice editing (like on a Moviola or Steinbeck) as opposed to the newer NLE's, which have progressed and extended the metaphor a bit further.

Media100 is a great system. I don't know of the integration you mentioned is exactly what I'd call a strong suit. But it is intuitive - to a point. Eventually (especially on the older, A-B only style versions) you run into limitations that can greatly hinder your workflow unless you learn secondary tools like AE. Of course, this could be said for Avid as well. But the visual quality on M100 is fantastic.

FCP is kind of like crack in the sense that if you want to, you probably *can* get away with doing almost anything within the program. It edits rather well. It color corrects nicely. The audio is... well, there at least, and with some tenacity, you can work on it. And if you really want, you can do lots of keyframing, titles, and composite/graphics, as long as you're not overly concerned with perfect-pixel-placement.

But in the real world, you're much more likely to edit in Avid or FCP, then run your compositing in AE/Shake/[Insert Compositor Of Choice Program], then run your audio into ProTools or Logic, and finally color correct on a giant pro rig that's all spec'd out for that.

So there's my 2¢. Edit on!

-rand()

 

[1baseball1]

Answer Me

Yeah hey im trying to decide what editing program to get can people please help me and tell me witch is wayyyyy better and i should get right now i have a windows computer so if i get fianlt cut pro i need a mac so what should i get a mac and final cut pro or should i get a program for xp i want the best... also i have 2 questions for if you recomend me getting FCP 1. can i send video files from FCP on my mac to my PC Windows cpu and 2. where can i get the cheapest mac that can run FCP ( laptop mac please )

 

[Randor]

I used Premiere for years, then was formally taught Avid at broadcasting school, then bought my Mac Pro and FCP 6 Suite in January and taught myself that. Of the three I would choose FCP, Premiere and then Avid in that order.

One of the things we all have to remember is that it is very difficult to be objective when comparing one product with another. This is especially true if we have been using the first product for years. Once we learn how to do something well enough to perform the keyboard sequence without even thinking about it, it becomes very difficult to have to learn a different sequence that performs the same function on the new product.

I found it very difficult to learn Avid after using Premiere for so many years. The editing process was interrupted so many times having to stop myself from using one keyboard sequence and using the new one. It was very frustrating. However, others who were learning Avid as their first NLE system seemed to pick it up a little quicker. This was partially because they didn't have to "unlearn" the old techniques.

On the surface it is easy to dismiss one product as "stupid" or "un-intuitive" because the techniques used seem awkward. We must realize that each product is approaching the same function from a different angle.

Knowing all three products relatively well, if I were asked to pick one off the shelf, it would definitely be FCP.

 

[Lunja]

Can't comment on Vegas, but I've used Avid XPress and Pinnacle Liquid whilst at University, and own FCP on my home setup, whilst using Premier Pro at work.

Personally, of Avid and Liquid, I always prefered Liquid. Whilst I only used them for fairly light projects, I always got annoyed by the two different timeline settings (because I was a n00b and was always getting them mixed up). Liquid was prettier to look at IMO, and I found it more comfortable to learn with it's more graphical interface.

Of the two I use now, I actually prefer Premiere, although the lack of dip-to-colour dissolve is a pet peeve. I edit corporate video, so colour flashes are used often to make transitions. In FCP I can set a dip-to-colour over the cut, change the colour, and you're on to the next edit. In Premiere, I have to create a colour matte, name it, drag it from the bin to the timeline, trim it, drop on a cross dissolve at the top and tail, and then trim those.

Otherwise, I prefer Premiere to work with day-to-day. Yes it crashes, but with a Matrox RTX100 card on board and Magic Bullet and Misfire post effects, it does everything I could want it to. I find the timeline easier to work with, and I prefer the interface.

But that's my 2 pence 🙂

 

[Airstream]

Want a client perspective?

If you're editing for yourself, it really doesn't matter which software or hardware you choose. Try them out and use the one that you feel comfortable with and that you can afford. Much can be done with any one of them. But if you are editing for a client, it really does matter what platform you are on. That's really why Avid owns the market in post houses in major markets. I'm a producer, and I am incredibly frustrated by working with an editor who uses software that slows us down. I've sat through edits using FCP where I've had to wait for rendering every time I wanted to see the spot. I've suffered through PP edits where it took a frustratingly long time to make fine adjustments of edit points. That doesn't happen in an Avid suite with an experienced editor. Productivity matters to me. My productivity as well as the editor's. I want to be able to change things without having to go have a cup of coffee while the machine does its thing or while the editor finds the media. Editors who work on Avids seem to be able to respond to changes, on other platforms, it seems to be harder -- slower. Is it the editor? Maybe. But I can only judge by what I've seen in the room. FCP has been slower, and PP has been painful. The Avid guys charge more money, but they don't waste my time.

That being said, I don't expect to do effects and compositing in the edit suite. I expect to select shots and tell stories there. There are better platforms for that.

So if you are going to make your own movies, do whatever you want, but if you are going to make a career as an editor, think hard about what you are asking of your clients. The translation from thought to playback needs to be as close to instant as you can get it. i work with an editor (who uses an Avid) who is often ready to show me a change in a cut before my client and I get done talking about it. Can you do that? If not, look at what you're doing and figure out why.

David

 

[bimmzy]

I use FCP, Avid (virtually all its flavors), and Quantel's SQ Edit.

they all have one overriding thing in common... they are all flaky! 😡

FCP i think is a fantastic compositing tool, Avid great for cutting and fiddling, and Quantel, for banging it out at high speed.

they all have different mind sets though. Avid being the most quirky, as SQ Edit and FCP behave in surprisingly similar ways.
😀

 

[joemarvelly]

Vegas 7.0 is the best

Quite frankly if you want a sensible, stress free program that can do everything and more than what Final Cut Pro can do, then use Vegas.

Personally I can't stand Final Cut. You have to RENDER EVERY SINGLE CLIP EVERY TIME YOU ALTER IT IN THE SLIGHTEST! I HATE THAT! When you are searching for that vital frame or just moving the clip and it has effects on it the clip has to be rerendered over and over again! This affects you on a minute to minute basis, and the larger the clip, the longer it takes to render! It just stresses me out to the point where I am not enjoying editting. In Vegas there's none of that nonsense, making it far quicker to edit with less stress involved, and you can just enjoy editting! Imagine that!

This is only one example of what annoys me about the program, but seriously there are far more that I am too tired to go into. Huge factors that affect you every minute that aren't even hinted at in Vegas.

Well my point is:

DON'T BUY FINAL CUT PRO (ANY VERSION), SONY VEGAS 7.0 (I don't have version 8 but I bet it's amazing) SH*TS ALL OVER IT​

 

[bigbossbmb]

Personally I can't stand Final Cut. You have to RENDER EVERY SINGLE CLIP EVERY TIME YOU ALTER IT IN THE SLIGHTEST! I HATE THAT!

Please take your FUD and dig up dead threads elsewhere...

 

[LethalWolfe]

Please setup your FCP project correctly and dig up dead threads elsewhere...

fixed that for you. 😉


Lethal

 

[bigbossbmb]

lol that is more accurate....

I don't know why I've been in a less forgiving mood lately. Although, I did see a license plate last week that read "RTFM PLS". Definitely cracked a smile.

 

[LethalWolfe]

lol that is more accurate....

I don't know why I've been in a less forgiving mood lately. Although, I did see a license plate last week that read "RTFM PLS". Definitely cracked a smile.

I saw a BMW w/a plate that was something like "U NV ME" and I wanted to key the car on general principle.


Lethal

 

[bimmzy]

AVID and FCP are the big boys.
They tend to be popular with broadcasters and film production houses. Programme makers are a conservative bunch so they hanging on to what they know best, which means Avid is it's various flavours.

FCP is making inroads, and the worlds biggest production house (BBC) is now shunting over to FCP, albeit chaotically. as it does essentially what Avid can do, for allot less money.

Both systems have their issues though. I started working with Avid when is ran on a Mac II, and was highly experimental. It's now a very sophisticated beast indeed. So too is the young upstart FCP, and both have a inclination for crashing. 😡

Which is better?
well i dunno. 😕
People like analogies, and often compare the two systems with cars. Why this is i do not know, as fundamentally they are about producing commodities, i.e TV programmes and films. Both systems are essential to know because that's what the industry demands.

Despite editing on Avid for the last 15 years, and though temperamental, my personal preference is FCP because it makes the WHOLE production process less hassle by sticking to one logic set. At Avid they seam to make it up as they go along, and Unity?!!!..... the less said the better.

As interments of sweat, toil and torture, Avid is nice and FCP is kinder. 😀

N.B
On Rendering...
Both need rendering on output, so the realtime effects are 'a much of a muchness' if you configure both systems properly......... but when I walk away for 30++ minutes during rendering for the finish and final lock,
I know on my return with a cuppa in hand that FCP will still be standing. 😛