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FINALLY! Apple stores implementing policies to restrict sales to scalpers (DMV area)
- Thread starter pat.micunnis
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To be considered a criminal, you would have to break a law. Buying 10 iPhones is not breaking a law. That store set policies in place and are enforcing it which is not illegal. If you feel like a criminal, that's on you. Do you feel like a criminal when you enter any other business that has CCTV everywhere such as gas/petrol stations or department stores that are primarily meant for catching shoplifters or vandals?
You're trying to say that if what the OP posted is actually true there wont be a lawsuit and tons of bad publicity towards Apple for something like that? Even though the story sounds out there and maybe not true its kinda scary.
You would like to have your pictured taken as a customer and displayed and cross-referenced by Apple to every days customers line up outside the store?
Here, you want an iphone for full price? Take a picture first, and then we have it on file to compare you daily to regular scalpers'.
I'm no lawyer but still doesn't seem legal to me.
Is this your imaginary liberties that they are violating? Please clarify the liberties they would be violating. Nobody is forcing anyone to purchase a device at that particular store. Who said the government had anything to do with the stores business decisions. Again, this isn't a controlled market economy.
I just think there's better ways to avoid scalping than taking average customers pics for comparison later. You wouldn't feel weird if they tell you smile on the camera, you bought an iphone full price so now we must put your face on the potential scalpers database.
I love your country, but fortunately civilized world doesn't end outside US boundaries, dude
Here in Europe 4th amendment doesn't apply, we have different laws to protect citizen's privacy and you can't take photo of people without their permission.
Surveillance cameras are a totally different case: they recorded PLACES (and not people) and can register people just to pass the record to authorities in the case of a law-breaking event.
It doesn't sound legal to you, because you don't like it. But, it is. Since you're in the public domain, you can't scream 4th amendment when a picture is taken of you. It's why I can take pictures of monuments, etc with people in it.
How do you think they enforce bans? They need to be able to tell if you are trespassing..... So how else do you propose they enforce rules against scalpers? They need to be able to see who they are. Since they are in the public domain, it is legal for them to take pictures of people.
Maybe someone will sue Apple for it. But, the likelihood of them winning is low.
Since I didn't get a ticket, I don't know what happens when you actually buy the phone -- which is why I stated: I assume they take a picture of you.
But the ticket masters are the same ones that hand out the tickets each day. So I think they are able to spot the "regulars."
The policy limit is per store: 10 phone per person. The Apple employees said they could go to another store. But don't come back to this store.
It's frustrating thinking that I was "early" - 2 1/2 hours, only to find a line that is 20 - 30 people long, 6 weeks after launch. It was quite obvious they were scalpers: they all seem to know each other & they didn't care which model phone they got a ticket for.
But the ticket masters are the same ones that hand out the tickets each day. So I think they are able to spot the "regulars."
The policy limit is per store: 10 phone per person. The Apple employees said they could go to another store. But don't come back to this store.
It's frustrating thinking that I was "early" - 2 1/2 hours, only to find a line that is 20 - 30 people long, 6 weeks after launch. It was quite obvious they were scalpers: they all seem to know each other & they didn't care which model phone they got a ticket for.
I love your country, but fortunately civilized world doesn't end outside US boundaries, dude
Here in Europe 4th amendment doesn't apply, we have different laws to protect citizen's privacy and you can't take photo of people without their permission.
Surveillance cameras are a totally different case: they record PLACES (and not people) and can register people just to pass the record to authorities in the case of a law-breaking event.
Bam, someone with common sense around finally.
I'm amazed that everyone else that says this is perfectly fine and reasonable to do towards their customers.
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They record and show "legal Law enforcement authorities" when a crime is commited so the criminals can be prosecuted and footage used as evidence.
Not for regular joe schmoe minimum wage Apple employee to scan through hundreds of mugshots every day.
There's ways to enforce anti-scalping measures without taking pictures something like licence numbers or credit card only sales and such rules they instituted in the past.
There are laws against ticket scalping in some places. In California you can't legally sell them for more than you paid. This means that you can retrieve what you paid if you decide not to attend an event, but you can't profit from them. Beyond that what liberties are being violated? This hinders the process of creating fake shortages. Anyway they aren't technically violating any legal rights, but from a broader standpoint what rights do you feel are being violated?
Bam, someone with common sense around finally.
I'm amazed that everyone else that says this is perfectly fine and reasonable to do towards their customers.
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They record and show "legal Law enforcement authorities" when a crime is commited so the criminals can be prosecuted and footage used as evidence.
Not for regular joe schmoe minimum wage Apple employee to scan through hundreds of mugshots every day.
There's ways to enforce anti-scalping measures without taking pictures similar to licence numbers or credit card only sales and such rules they instituted in the past.
That are *not* taking photos of customers. If you think Apple would allow that, then you don't know apple at all.
I hear you, that story sounded way out there
But I'm just surprised at the folks finding it a perfectly acceptable thing to do even though what's stated by the OP is most likely false IMO.
I hear you, that story sounded way out there
But I'm just surprised at the folks finding it a perfectly acceptable thing to do even though what's stated by the OP is false IMO.
I'm only saying it's legal.
I love your country, but fortunately civilized world doesn't end outside US boundaries, dude
Here in Europe 4th amendment doesn't apply, we have different laws to protect citizen's privacy and you can't take photo of people without their permission.
Surveillance cameras are a totally different case: they recorded PLACES (and not people) and can register people just to pass the record to authorities in the case of a law-breaking event.
So what your saying is that Europe has laws to take away peoples right to take photos of things in "Public" which is defined as open to all persons. To me, this translates to nothing is public in Europe if there are other people around you because you may be violating someone's privacy? If I'm in Europe and took a photo of someone in my home and someone walking by my window was in the photo, that person can knock on my door and tell me to delete it because it violates his privacy? Ludicrous!
Do you really believe that those cameras on every street corner are primarily used to record inanimate objects such as the sidewalk, street, side of a building and not anybody who may commit a crime? That's he silliest thing I've ever heard. That's like my neighbor across the street setting up a camera pointed right at my house and telling me "I'm just recording the sidewalk and street in front of your house". Never mind the fact he has the ability to look into all my windows in front of my home to see what I'm doing. But hey, he said it's just to record the street and sidewalk. Yeah right!
Don't get me wrong: I'm not defending scalpers in no way !
I hate them ...
I'm just stating the Store (if true and I'm not sure of that ...) is going too far ...
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I hear you, that story sounded way out there
But I'm just surprised at the folks finding it a perfectly acceptable thing to do even though what's stated by the OP is most likely false IMO.
That's my point.
You totally misunderstood my post.
SECURITY CAMERAS are for .... guess what ? SECURITY
They are protecting places against thief or law-breaking individuals.
They are not checking people around ....
And security cameras' tape are passed ONLY TO AUTHORITIES, and deleted every few days.
That's quite different from Joe Smith of an Apple Store files customers for his personal "sales policy enforcement".
I don't know about US, but here in Europe they would be sued ....
Regarding public places, no one forbids to take pictures in public places, but you can take pictures of PLACES, not people.
If someone enter your pictures, is clearly identifiable and want you to delete it, you must do that. There are laws against it in Italian Constitution and similar in every European country.
You can take pictures of people in public places if they aren't directly identifiable. Otherwise you need they approval.
There is an "unspoken acknowledge" to avoid someone to ask everyone for direct permission, but if I find a photo of me in a web page (for example) I can ask you to delete it, and you must accomplish .
You totally misunderstood my post.
SECURITY CAMERAS are for .... guess what ? SECURITY
They are protecting places against thief or law-breaking individuals.
They are not checking people around ....
And security cameras' tape are passed ONLY TO AUTHORITIES, and deleted every few days.
That's quite different from Joe Smith of an Apple Store files customers for his personal "sales policy enforcement".
I don't know about US, but here in Europe they would be sued ....
Regarding public places, no one forbids to take pictures in public places, but you can take pictures of PLACES, not people.
If someone enter your pictures, is clearly identifiable and want you to delete it, you must do that. There are laws against it in Italian Constitution and similar in every European country.
You can take pictures of people in public places if they aren't directly identifiable. Otherwise you need they approval.
There is an "unspoken acknowledge" to avoid someone to ask everyone for direct permission, but if I find a photo of me in a web page (for example) I can ask you to delete it, and you must accomplish .
I guess you haven't been to YouTube or any other media hosting website that has videos footage of street cameras from guess where? That's right! Europe.
Are paparazzi's immune to these laws?
Paparazzi aren't immune and are sued every day all over the world.
Take pictures of actors or public people is quite different from take pictures of customers of an Apple Store.
Surprised it hasnt been asked, but how come you are exchanging gold for silver?
There is a good reason for someone to walk out with 5 iPhones. One for them, their wife, and their three kids. An outrageous amount of money, but still, it's plausible.
No normal person needs to have 10 different devices though, not even developers need that many units. So that's where they stop it at.
Scalping is getting to the point where everyone's doing it, and that's the problem for Apple and other companies. You saw those Google Chromecast devices sell out, there's 500 of them on eBay alone right now. Over 400 of them listed as "Buy It Now".
When someone walks out because they aren't able to get a new iPhone 5S in the color and size they want after a month or more, it's most likely that they will just go for something else, and that's what Apple is trying to prevent here.
That doesn't apply in the US because private investigators take candid photos of people that are used in court all the time. For example, photos or videos can be used against a person in an insurance fraud case.
When you enter a private business like an Apple store, they can take photos or videos of you because you are on their premises. It's not illegal. You can demand them to erase the footage/photos but they don't have to comply.
Even law enforcement cannot tell us to stop open video recording them because they would be violating our civil rights just as long as they are aware of it and we're not obstructing them from doing their duty. All but 2 states allow for open video recording. Some states also require consent to recording audio. Law enforcement may harass us about it and if they detain or arrest us for openly video recording them without obstructing justice, we can sue them.
It's useless to debate this because laws are different in all parts of the world. Let's just agree to disagree.
You totally misunderstood my post.
SECURITY CAMERAS are for .... guess what ? SECURITY
They are protecting places against thief or law-breaking individuals.
They are not checking people around ....
And security cameras' tape are passed ONLY TO AUTHORITIES, and deleted every few days.
That's quite different from Joe Smith of an Apple Store files customers for his personal "sales policy enforcement".
I don't know about US, but here in Europe they would be sued ....
Regarding public places, no one forbids to take pictures in public places, but you can take pictures of PLACES, not people.
If someone enter your pictures, is clearly identifiable and want you to delete it, you must do that. There are laws against it in Italian Constitution and similar in every European country.
You can take pictures of people in public places if they aren't directly identifiable. Otherwise you need they approval.
There is an "unspoken acknowledge" to avoid someone to ask everyone for direct permission, but if I find a photo of me in a web page (for example) I can ask you to delete it, and you must accomplish .
Well, not true for the Netherlands.
I'm allowed to take a picture of you or film you in a public place, as long as I don't use these images for profit.
But you cannot sue me or get me arrested, for just pointing a camera at you.
There are also news sites here that post surveillance movies of burglars or robbers to try and get them arrested, nothing illegal about it.
For example : http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2013/10/man_mag_van_zijn_moeder_geen_d.html
Or shaming asocial drivers : http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2013/10/boos_bestelbusbeest_versus_cin_1.html
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Clearly this is based on your personal feelings, and there's no way for me to really argue with that.
Of course, no one scalps if there is enough stock around . . . I do find it frustrating that, this long after intro, Apple does not have stock in my area. I am not a fanatic, but was thinking of trading in my 5 for a 5s. But the longer it takes, the less inclined I am.