Find my friends -> Apple maps

[Small White Car]

And if you DO have teenagers (especially ones that drive) and you think that they are telling you everything about where they are going and what they are doing, then you are incredibly naive. I'm sure you never lied to your parents about what you did growing up <snicker>.

I never did.

Am I unusual?

What are the reasons to using FMF to check the exact location of one's kids on a daily basis?

Same reasons I check on my wife:

1) I don't start dinner until I see she's on her way home without having to bother her at work with phone calls.

2) If I'm about to call and check in (as you say you'd also do) but I see she's at a friends house or the grocery store, there's no need to bother them.



Basically, you'd check on your kids but bother them with a phone call and I'd check without the phone call. The privacy implications are IDENTICAL between you and I, but your kids are gonna get bothered by a ringing phone a heck of a lot more often.

 

[hafr]

I take it you don't have kids, or if you do, not teenagers. And if you DO have teenagers (especially ones that drive) and you think that they are telling you everything about where they are going and what they are doing, then you are incredibly naive. I'm sure you never lied to your parents about what you did growing up <snicker>.

Are you using this app with them knowing about it, as a way to keep them in line because they know you'll know if they're lying, or are you using it without their knowledge?

To me, that sounds like you've either smacked an electronic bracelet on them or are violating their privacy on a daily basis.

Just because you didn't grow up with the technology that is available today is no reason not to use it. That's like my 78 year old dad saying "I didn't have a cell phone when I grew up; why do you need one?". Also, keeping track of your kids has nothing to do with being controlling or nervous, and everything to do about being a responsible parent.

Tracking your kids with a GPS has nothing to do with being controlling? I'd say it's the definition of being controlling.

----------

Same reasons I check on my wife:

1) I don't start dinner until I see she's on her way home without having to bother her at work with phone calls.

2) If I'm about to call and check in (as you say you'd also do) but I see she's at a friends house or the grocery store, there's no need to bother them.

Basically, you'd check on your kids but bother them with a phone call and I'd check without the phone call. The privacy implications are IDENTICAL between you and I, but your kids are gonna get bothered by a ringing phone a heck of a lot more often.

Haha, no. No they're not. They're nowhere near identical. In fact, they're the complete opposite. What you're advocating is surveillance, what I'm advocating is trust.

----------

"Track" versus "check up on them" are two very different things. I like to be able to see where they are if I am going to be late getting home, if they are late getting home from school, if they have left the football game and are on their way home or to a friends house, etc. Calling them to find them or having them call me or text me when they leave and when they get there is a pain; just being able to see where they are is much more simpler and efficient.

Rule in my house for my 3 kids ranging in ages from 12 - 18 (now at college) - if you want a cell phone and are currently either living in my house or under my insurance policy, you abide by the terms and conditions that come with it. One of them is that you'll friend me on FmF and keep your phone with you at all times. And they can see me as well, as can my wife and vice versa. If you don't want your family to know where you are, you must be hiding something.

If you need to know where your family members are at any given moment, you must have trust issues.

 

[Mike in Kansas]

Are you using this app with them knowing about it, as a way to keep them in line because they know you'll know if they're lying, or are you using it without their knowledge?

Of course they know about it. They can track me too. My daughter can see if I left the house yet to pick her up from band practice at school and doesn't need to call me. Transparency.

To me, that sounds like you've either smacked an electronic bracelet on them or are violating their privacy on a daily basis.


Tracking your kids with a GPS has nothing to do with being controlling? I'd say it's the definition of being controlling.

What does "violating their privacy" mean? You mean, when you call your kids you don't feel you can ask them where they are as that would be violating their privacy? You just said that you ask where they are; isn't that violating their privacy?

It's not "controlling" at all. I'm not limiting what they are doing just by having the ability to see where they are. Again, if they are doing exactly what they tell me they are doing, it's one big non-issue.

 

[Small White Car]

Haha, no. No they're not. They're nowhere near identical. In fact, they're the complete opposite. What you're advocating is surveillance, what I'm advocating is trust.

What's the difference between my method and yours? The ONLY difference is that your kids have the option to lie to you on the phone call.

(If they always tell the truth when you call then your method is identical to mine.)

Me, I'd expect your kids to tell the truth which is why I'm saying we're identical. We both want to know where they are, we both check in, we both get an answer. Sounds the same to me.

But since you're you're telling me that we're not the same that means you are expecting your kids to lie to you from time to time.

So how can you advocate trust when you're telling me you expect your kids to lie?

What does "violating their privacy" mean? You mean, when you call your kids you don't feel you can ask them where they are as that would be violating their privacy? You just said that you ask where they are; isn't that violating their privacy?

Yeah, I'd actually give up this fight if this guy would just say "I don't think we have a right to know where our kids are." I'd respect that position.

But arguing that his kind of surveillance is somehow different than ours? I don't get it.

 

[MozMan68]

See, Mike in Kansas said that as a parent, you'd use this app daily to check on your kids. Being a parent, I can't see why on earth I'd want to do that since I trust my kids. If I wonder where they are, I'll call. If they don't answer, I leave a voicemail or send a text.

What are the reasons to using FMF to check the exact location of one's kids on a daily basis?

It has nearly (yes nearly...not just "nothing") nothing to do with trust as that is what I hope most of us would think is a two way street between parents and kids.

Mike's response is identical to what mine was in another FMF thread. My kids know it is on there and it was one of the conditions of me spending a ton of money so they could have an iPhone versus some piece 'o' crap PanTech freebie from our provider.

I DO trust my kids...but when I don't want to bother them by calling or texting, and yes, when I want to verify that they are where they say they are whne they said they would be there, I use FMF.

Remember, the app also tells you when someone has arrived at a certain location...even when they have come home.

I use it with my oldest so I know he is in his dorm instead of eating, or in class, or with his friends so I can Facetime without disturbing him.

If you've got nothing to hide, then there is no reason to NOT have it for kids, spouses, etc.

 

[Mike in Kansas]

If you need to know where your family members are at any given moment, you must have trust issues.

Guess what? Maybe I have a kid who has violated that trust in the past and has taken advantage of it. It would be crazy for me to keep allowing him to have complete freedom, so by adding a layer of observation I can try and keep closer to the straight and narrow. That's what parents do - they just don't throw up their hands and say "kids will be kids" and let then do whatever they want.

As I said before, either you don't have teenagers OR are completely naive. Good luck with that...

 

[Max(IT)]

My older son is 15 and believe me, if I want to know where he is at a specific moment, I have every right to do that.
Until he's under my responsibility, he's going to follow MY RULES.
My son doesn't have an iPhone, so I can't use find my friend, but I can't see nothing wrong if someone use it.

If I have to contact him and he didn't respond to my phone call, I want to know IMMEDIATELY where he is and if he's in any danger.
If he's busy with his girlfriend, well, good for him.

 

[hafr]

What does "violating their privacy" mean? You mean, when you call your kids you don't feel you can ask them where they are as that would be violating their privacy? You just said that you ask where they are; isn't that violating their privacy?

Their privacy is their right to choose whether to tell you exactly where they are, or that they're late because they're stuck in traffic when in reality they're late due to whatever reason but don't want to go into it with you at that very moment, or simply don't want to answer.

It's not "controlling" at all. I'm not limiting what they are doing just by having the ability to see where they are. Again, if they are doing exactly what they tell me they are doing, it's one big non-issue.

Actually, you are limiting them. Indirectly.

 

[C DM]

So in short, checking your kids exact location on a daily basis using a GPS tracker is rational, trusting your kids isn't?

We've clearly got different opinions of what's considered rational.

Sounds like we do. Safety/health overrides everything when it comes to kids. If something appears to be more important, that certainly would seem irrational.

 

[Mike in Kansas]

Their privacy is their right to choose whether to tell you exactly where they are, or that they're late because they're stuck in traffic when in reality they're late due to whatever reason but don't want to go into it with you at that very moment, or simply don't want to answer.

tl;dr "lie to you"

----------

Sounds like we do. Safety/health overrides everything when it comes to kids. If something appears to be more important, that certainly would seem irrational.

I don't normally agree with you (I can say that right?) in your thoughts on iOS7, but on this we do agree. I guess those are more important issues than the new calendar or the ability to turn motions on or off...!

 

[hafr]

What's the difference between my method and yours? The ONLY difference is that your kids have the option to lie to you on the phone call.

(If they always tell the truth when you call then your method is identical to mine.)

Me, I'd expect your kids to tell the truth which is why I'm saying we're identical. We both want to know where they are, we both check in, we both get an answer. Sounds the same to me.

But since you're you're telling me that we're not the same that means you are expecting your kids to lie to you from time to time.

So how can you advocate trust when you're telling me you expect your kids to lie?

Do you think only people who have something to hide are against government surveillance of all internet traffic, calls, texts, snail mail and so on?

Would you be comfortable with your wife telling you to strap yourself into a lie detector every time you talk just because you don't lie to her?

Yeah, I'd actually give up this fight if this guy would just say "I don't think we have a right to know where our kids are." I'd respect that position.

But arguing that his kind of surveillance is somehow different than ours? I don't get it.

It's not about not having a right to know where your kids are, it's the 24/7 surveillance and inherent lack of trust as a default mode for parents that I find strange.

You mean you really can't see what the difference is between equipping your wife with a GPS tracker and talking to her on the phone?

----------

It has nearly (yes nearly...not just "nothing") nothing to do with trust as that is what I hope most of us would think is a two way street between parents and kids.

Mike's response is identical to what mine was in another FMF thread. My kids know it is on there and it was one of the conditions of me spending a ton of money so they could have an iPhone versus some piece 'o' crap PanTech freebie from our provider.

I DO trust my kids...but when I don't want to bother them by calling or texting, and yes, when I want to verify that they are where they say they are whne they said they would be there, I use FMF.

Remember, the app also tells you when someone has arrived at a certain location...even when they have come home.

I use it with my oldest so I know he is in his dorm instead of eating, or in class, or with his friends so I can Facetime without disturbing him.

If you've got nothing to hide, then there is no reason to NOT have it for kids, spouses, etc.

You trust your kids, but you verify where they say they are?

----------

Guess what? Maybe I have a kid who has violated that trust in the past and has taken advantage of it. It would be crazy for me to keep allowing him to have complete freedom, so by adding a layer of observation I can try and keep closer to the straight and narrow. That's what parents do - they just don't throw up their hands and say "kids will be kids" and let then do whatever they want.

As I said before, either you don't have teenagers OR are completely naive. Good luck with that...

Finally, a good reason. Exactly what I was asking for all along. An alternative to being grounded. I can get with that, but I still can't get with that being the default mode.

 

[Small White Car]

Do you think only people who have something to hide are against government surveillance of all internet traffic, calls, texts, snail mail and so on?

Not at all. You're confusing me with the other guy who said that. I don't like that argument at all and never use it.

Would you be comfortable with your wife telling you to strap yourself into a lie detector every time you talk just because you don't lie to her?

What I'm thinking and where I am are not the same thing.

I don't always tell the truth.

But I NEVER lie about where I am. So a general lie detector? No.

But a lie detector that makes me tell where I am? Don't need it, would never lie about that. WHY would I? In what possible situation could I be in where I would need to lie about where I am? It has never come up.

It's not about not having a right to know where your kids are, it's the 24/7 surveillance and inherent lack of trust as a default mode for parents that I find strange.

You calling you kids whenever you want to is also 24/7 surveillance. It can be done at any time, yes?

 

[hafr]

Sounds like we do. Safety/health overrides everything when it comes to kids. If something appears to be more important, that certainly would seem irrational.

How do you know your wife is safe just because you know where her phone is?

 

[C DM]

How do you know your wife is safe just because you know where her phone is?

Adults were never brought up in my posts.

 

[MozMan68]

How do you know your wife is safe just because you know where her phone is?

Seriously?

I won't speak for everyone here, but my wife is either at work, home, at the store...or generally within a few miles of our home. Anywhere else and I would know about it from a prior conversation...so if I see her travelling 50 miles outside of town and then not answering my calls, that would be strange and I would probably call the cops.

And lastly from me...a kid is a kid...and until they turn 18, they are my responsibility...and if that means knowing where they are because it makes me feel better, than that is perfectly all right.

Remember, they can choose to block me from their view if they like. The question is, do you feel that will be the time I'm not checking to verify where you say you are? Sometimes kids need to learn that trust goes both ways. Make a habit of lying, and I will constantly check in on you. Make a habit of always telling the truth, then I will never use FMF.

I'm happy to say, the latter is the case for me...again, I use it to see where everyone is not to check on them, but not to bug them with a call or text if not needed.

 

[hafr]

Not at all. You're confusing me with the other guy who said that. I don't like that argument at all and never use it.

But what you're saying is exactly that. Surveillance is no issue for those who don't lie, right?

What I'm thinking and where I am are not the same thing.

I don't always tell the truth.

But I NEVER lie about where I am. So a general lie detector? No.

But a lie detector that makes me tell where I am? Don't need it, would never lie about that. WHY would I? In what possible situation could I be in where I would need to lie about where I am? It has never come up.

It's based on the same thing - honesty. Just about different things. No, why wouldn't you be comfortable with wearing a lie detector when you're advocating that parents should strap one on their kids?

You calling you kids whenever you want to is also 24/7 surveillance. It can be done at any time, yes?

You're saying a phone call and an electronic bracelet is the same thing? You must be joking.

----------

Adults were never brought up in my posts.

Sorry, a mixup on my behalf. But replace "wife" with "kids" and answer that question instead?

----------

Seriously?

I won't speak for everyone here, but my wife is either at work, home, at the store...or generally within a few miles of our home. Anywhere else and I would know about it from a prior conversation...so if I see her travelling 50 miles outside of town and then not answering my calls, that would be strange and I would probably call the cops.

How do you know she didn't just forgot her phone in her friend's car?

And lastly from me...a kid is a kid...and until they turn 18, they are my responsibility...and if that means knowing where they are because it makes me feel better, than that is perfectly all right.

Remember, they can choose to block me from their view if they like. The question is, do you feel that will be the time I'm not checking to verify where you say you are? Sometimes kids need to learn that trust goes both ways. Make a habit of lying, and I will constantly check in on you. Make a habit of always telling the truth, then I will never use FMF.

I'm happy to say, the latter is the case for me...again, I use it to see where everyone is not to check on them, but not to bug them with a call or text if not needed.

See, I'm not against being able to use FMF to see where your kids are. I would as well, had I not heard from them for a long time or if anything would make me suspicious, or had they violated my trust earlier. What I'm arguing against is using FMF on a daily basis as a default mode for parents.

 

[Small White Car]

No, why wouldn't you be comfortable with wearing a lie detector when you're advocating that parents should strap one on their kids?

I let people follow me on Find my Friends. I follow other people on Find my Friends. You're REALLY trying to paint that as hypocrisy? Letting others do it to me proves I'm fine with it.

You're saying a phone call and an electronic bracelet is the same thing? You must be joking.

If you call and ask "where are you?" then yeah, it's completely the same.

But what you're saying is exactly that. Surveillance is no issue for those who don't lie, right?

You tell me. Do you feel creepy when you ask someone where they are over the phone? Why not?

 

[C DM]

But what you're saying is exactly that. Surveillance is no issue for those who don't lie, right?


It's based on the same thing - honesty. Just about different things. No, why wouldn't you be comfortable with wearing a lie detector when you're advocating that parents should strap one on their kids?


You're saying a phone call and an electronic bracelet is the same thing? You must be joking.

----------



Sorry, a mixup on my behalf. But replace "wife" with "kids" and answer that question instead?

----------


How do you know she didn't just forgot her phone in her friend's car?


See, I'm not against being able to use FMF to see where your kids are. I would as well, had I not heard from them for a long time or if anything would make me suspicious, or had they violated my trust earlier. What I'm arguing against is using FMF on a daily basis as a default mode for parents.

Just knowing where my kids are alone won't necessarily tell me that everything is fine, but finding out that they are somewhere unexpected can certainly alert me that something might not be right. Again, even if something isn't fully useful but can help even a bit in some way without being really disruptive in some way it's certainly with it when it comes to parenting and kids. Again, any rational parent understands that all too well.

 

[hafr]

I let people follow me on Find my Friends. I follow other people on Find my Friends. You're REALLY trying to paint that as hypocrisy? Letting others do it to me proves I'm fine with it.

You LET other people follow you on FMF, other people LET you follow them. That's a far, far way from FORCING someone to allow you to follow them in order for your to check their location daily whether they like it or not, to make sure they're not lying about their whereabouts.

Also, wanting to protect certain lies but not others - why?

If you call and ask "where are you?" then yeah, it's completely the same.

Oh, okay. I guess criminals who are being sentenced to house arrest could simply have a cell phone without GPS instead of that expensive bracelet they're wearing, since calling them is the same thing. Right?

You tell me. Do you feel creepy when you ask someone where they are over the phone? Why not?

No, but I would if I verified it on FMF afterwards. Or well, I wouldn't feel creepy. i would feel insecure and sad over the fact that I don't trust the person I just talked to, be it my friend or my child.

----------

Just knowing where my kids are alone won't necessarily tell me that everything is fine, but finding out that they are somewhere unexpected can certainly alert me that something might not be right. Again, even if something isn't fully useful but can help even a bit in some way without being really disruptive in some way it's certainly with it when it comes to parenting and kids. Again, any rational parent understands that all too well.

In short, according to you parents to teens without smartphones (or with smartphones with a tracking app installed) aren't rational unless they purchase another kind of GPS-tracker that their kids must wear at all times.

 

[Small White Car]

That's a far, far way from FORCING someone to allow you to follow them in order for your to check their location daily whether they like it or not, to make sure they're not lying about their whereabouts.

I would certainly ask my children for their permission. Not sure where you got this impression form. Nothing I wrote sounds like this.

Oh, okay. I guess criminals who are being sentenced to house arrest could simply have a cell phone without GPS instead of that expensive bracelet they're wearing, since calling them is the same thing. Right?

Asking my child to do something = A judge imposing a sentence on a criminal

Uh...yeah. Those are not even close to being the same thing.

No, but I would if I verified it on FMF afterwards. Or well, I wouldn't feel creepy. i would feel insecure and sad over the fact that I don't trust the person I just talked to, be it my friend or my child.

Who the hell is going to call AND use FmF? The whole point of FmF is that you don't have to call.

Yeah, if you combine them and do both that's just weird.

 

[C DM]

You LET other people follow you on FMF, other people LET you follow them. That's a far, far way from FORCING someone to allow you to follow them in order for your to check their location daily whether they like it or not, to make sure they're not lying about their whereabouts.

Also, wanting to protect certain lies but not others - why?


Oh, okay. I guess criminals who are being sentenced to house arrest could simply have a cell phone without GPS instead of that expensive bracelet they're wearing, since calling them is the same thing. Right?


No, but I would if I verified it on FMF afterwards. Or well, I wouldn't feel creepy. i would feel insecure and sad over the fact that I don't trust the person I just talked to, be it my friend or my child.

----------



In short, according to you parents to teens without smartphones (or with smartphones with a tracking app installed) aren't rational unless they purchase another kind of GPS-tracker that their kids must wear at all times.

Again, nothing mentioned on my part about going out of your way to do something--in fact the opposite, using what's already available to you that isn't more disruptive than useful, even if it's not 100% useful for everything all the time. That's what retinal parents understand pretty much inherently.

 

[MozMan68]

In short, according to you parents to teens without smartphones (or with smartphones with a tracking app installed) aren't rational unless they purchase another kind of GPS-tracker that their kids must wear at all times.

You keep trying to push your "if it didn't exist" scenario too much to take seriously.

It is there on the phone that they want as a feature. I let my kids have this very expensive phone and part of that deal is so I can use the included feature.

If they were fine with a PanTech piece 'o' crap, I would call or text to see where they are...and if they didn't answer or respond in a decent amount of time, I would worry.

It makes me feel better...it is safer for them....they are kids....

I seriously get where you are coming from, but this is a tool that I (and a bunch of other parents on here) use because it is there and it is helpful...even with other adults in our families. I do not have the time or inclination to constantly spy on anyone whether or not they are in my family...and trying to paint this image of us sitting in a chair at home watching our kids' every move is ridiculous and unfair.

 

[Mike in Kansas]

You LET other people follow you on FMF, other people LET you follow them. That's a far, far way from FORCING someone to allow you to follow them in order for your to check their location daily whether they like it or not, to make sure they're not lying about their whereabouts.

Parents force their kids to do stuff they don't want to do all of the time - it's called PARENTING. Otherwise, if kids only did what they wanted to do, anarchy would ensue. They are not old enough to make informed intelligent decisions, and they surely don't fully understand the ramifications of their actions. In that regard, it IS a trust issue. I DO NOT trust my kids to make the best decision all of the time, regardless of how smart, nice, kind and open they are. Therefore, I take actions to either prevent that from happening, or to help minimize the fallout afterwards. Having more information (i.e. knowing where they may be without having to ask them) is only a good thing. I'm sorry if you can't see that. I am over here shaking my head, wondering what your household is like as you obviously never made your kids do anything against their will. My household is NOT a democracy, and the kids surely don't run it. I'm not here to make the popular decisions.

This is my last post on this thread, as obviously we do not see eye to eye, nor are we going to be able to convince each other of the other's position. I bring my life experiences with me when making my parenting decisions, and what goes on in my household doesn't happen in yours. All I can say is that the FmF app is a great tool for parents to use in keeping track of their kids for a variety of reasons and I have value for the app, which was my response to a post near the beginning of this thread.

 

[Max(IT)]

Parents force their kids to do stuff they don't want to do all of the time - it's called PARENTING. Otherwise, if kids only did what they wanted to do, anarchy would ensue. They are not old enough to make informed intelligent decisions, and they surely don't fully understand the ramifications of their actions. In that regard, it IS a trust issue. I DO NOT trust my kids to make the best decision all of the time, regardless of how smart, nice, kind and open they are. Therefore, I take actions to either prevent that from happening, or to help minimize the fallout afterwards. Having more information (i.e. knowing where they may be without having to ask them) is only a good thing. I'm sorry if you can't see that. I am over here shaking my head, wondering what your household is like as you obviously never made your kids do anything against their will. My household is NOT a democracy, and the kids surely don't run it. I'm not here to make the popular decisions.

This is my last post on this thread, as obviously we do not see eye to eye, nor are we going to be able to convince each other of the other's position. I bring my life experiences with me when making my parenting decisions, and what goes on in my household doesn't happen in yours. All I can say is that the FmF app is a great tool for parents to use in keeping track of their kids for a variety of reasons and I have value for the app, which was my response to a post near the beginning of this thread.

Absolutely agree with every word you said.
I think hafr is a kid, not a parent .....

 

[C DM]

Parents force their kids to do stuff they don't want to do all of the time - it's called PARENTING. Otherwise, if kids only did what they wanted to do, anarchy would ensue. They are not old enough to make informed intelligent decisions, and they surely don't fully understand the ramifications of their actions. In that regard, it IS a trust issue. I DO NOT trust my kids to make the best decision all of the time, regardless of how smart, nice, kind and open they are. Therefore, I take actions to either prevent that from happening, or to help minimize the fallout afterwards. Having more information (i.e. knowing where they may be without having to ask them) is only a good thing. I'm sorry if you can't see that. I am over here shaking my head, wondering what your household is like as you obviously never made your kids do anything against their will. My household is NOT a democracy, and the kids surely don't run it. I'm not here to make the popular decisions.

This is my last post on this thread, as obviously we do not see eye to eye, nor are we going to be able to convince each other of the other's position. I bring my life experiences with me when making my parenting decisions, and what goes on in my household doesn't happen in yours. All I can say is that the FmF app is a great tool for parents to use in keeping track of their kids for a variety of reasons and I have value for the app, which was my response to a post near the beginning of this thread.

Well put, and nicely summarized.