Finder of Leaked iPhone 4 Prototype Speaks Out

[69650]

He found it. He took it. Now wait... he didn't make any serious attempts to return it to the rightful owner but instead kept it. That's what makes it theft. According to Californian law, and just check the site below - it's theft in the UK as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8129534.stm

Amazingly you still don't get what I'm saying. It's only theft if you attempt to profit from the find in which case it's fraud. Finding the item is not a crime but pretending to be the owner in order to sell it or in this case claim a prize is fraud or misrepresentation. If they'd just thrown the ticket in the bin they would not be committing a crime.

That's why I suggested that what this guy should have done was take a load of pics of the iPhone 4 he found and then send it back to Apple or hand it over to the police.

He could then make money selling the pics without committing any crime.

PS If you read this guys story he states that he did phone Apple to report the find but they were not interested. If you attempt to return something and the owner doesn't want it then I'm fairly surely you can legally keep it.

 

[quagmire]

PS If you read this guys story he states that he did phone Apple to report the find but they were not interested. If you attempt to return something and the owner doesn't want it then I'm fairly surely you can legally keep it.

And if you remember when this story originally broke, you would know he called AppleCare. Yeah, a customer service person would know what to do......

Lame attempt especially when Apple HQ is right up the road, knew the engineers Facebook so he could have messaged him saying he found it, emailed Steve Jobs, took it back to the bar and asked if anyone called about a lost iPhone, etc. So many better options to give it back than to call a place that will have no clue how to handle it and will naturally turn him away.

 

[69650]

And if you remember when this story originally broke, you would know he called AppleCare. Yeah, a customer service person would know what to do......

Lame attempt especially when Apple HQ is right up the road, knew the engineers Facebook so he could have messaged him saying he found it, emailed Steve Jobs, took it back to the bar and asked if anyone called about a lost iPhone, etc. So many better options to give it back than to call a place that will have no clue how to handle it and will naturally turn him away.

That's their fault not his. He tried, if AppleCare reps are really that thick then it's not his fault. More likely the AppleCare rep just couldn't be bothered as usual. Why should he go out of his way to return it. I wouldn't. The dumbass who lost it is to blame not this guy.

 

[TyPod]

Very interesting. To be honest, if I was in his shoes at the time I probably would have done the same thing.

 

[quagmire]

That's their fault not his. He tried, if AppleCare reps are really that thick then it's not his fault. More likely the AppleCare rep just couldn't be bothered as usual. Why should he go out of his way to return it. I wouldn't. The dumbass who lost it is to blame not this guy.

It's not about being thick or anything. AppleCare is not a lost and found for secret Apple prototypes... They are not setup, trained, etc to handle it. They don't know who to contact.

Like posted earlier, CA law obligates him to make reasonable attempts to return it. Making one attempt at a place that would not know what to do is not satisfying his reasonable attempts obligation. He had other ways that are reasonable to return it to Apple.

So blaming the engineer for Hogan's stupidity in selling lost property.... You blame the Steubenville, Ohio rape victim for getting herself raped?

 

[Akuratyde]

I'm not going to feel a lot of sympathy for this guy. I'm sure he's a nice fellow and all but he should have left the phone with bar management. If you find something that isn't yours, you don't have the right to keep it. If you choose to keep it there may be consequences and you have to deal with them.

 

[rotarydialz]

He got what he deserved. He's lucky it wasn't a police sting operation. Note to all thieves. If you see an empty car with keys in the ignition and the engine running, just walk away.

 

[lkrupp]

I remember this story well. At the time there numerous posts from people who really believed it was finders-keeprs, losers-weepers, posession was 9/10 of the law stuff. Too bad, they said, it's mine now. Lots of posts about what was ethical or lawful.

 

[lk400]

No. He's now the guy who tells all new employees how to handle prototype devices that they are given

(Just making this up, but it's quite possible. We never heard that he was fired, and we probably would have heard about it).

I read he was fired then rehired.

 

[henryonapple]

I would have handed it to the bartender. "Someone lost this." Done.

i call bs

 

[calaverasgrande]

Excuse me? Following the law equates with a lack of personal responsibility? The personal responsibility does not stop with the person who accidentally left property behind. You have a personal responsibility to act in a civil matter when you live in a civil society even if the "law" does not require you to do the "right thing", you still do it for the good of all. If everyone acted responsibly and considered how their actions can negatively impact others, we would live in a harmonious society without any strife or crime.

While such a society is obviously utopian and out of reach, you can do your part to do right by others regardless of whether the law compels you to. In this case, the finder of the property was compelled by the law because he knew who the property belonged to and yet decided to "sell" that property as if it was his own.

If you are ever uncertain about what the right thing to do is, put yourself in the shoes of the other person and think about how you would want to be treated.

That is the basis for the golden rule.

Except we aren't talking about some kids lost dog here. We are talking about something a corporation lost. I may be in the minority here but I do not consider corporations to be people. They do not have souls, emotions or honor. They do not as far as I know, have a consciousness that will "miss" the lost/stolen item.
Also, this wasn't just a loaf of bread that fell off a truck. It was a leaked prototype of a product from a company that is maddeningly secretive about it's product roadmaps. I would posit that he had a duty as a citizen in a technologically driven, social media obsessed, democratic, capitalist society to share that prototype with the world, and cash in, in the process.

Citizens United not withstanding.

 

[needfx]

The only thing I would have asked in retrospect would have been a cup of coffee with Steve

 

[BoxBrownie]

This is going to be a new conspiracy theory.

 

[pkson]

nvm

 

[Xiroteus]

If I was to ever find something like that I would like take a look at it (seriously, a new phone that is not going to be released for two months? Of course there should be a password lock on it) take some photographs and then contact whoever to return it. (Could not resist doing that) I would never sell something that could easily be tracked back to the owner. I would not have given it to the owner of the bar because I don't know their intentions while I known my own to make sure it is returned, of course I could give them contact information.

BTW. In Germany, taking the phone away from the bar would have been theft even if you returned it to the owner. There items are only "lost" if they are in a public place not owned by anyone. So you can't legally "find" things at someone's home, in a bar, in a school, on a bus and so on.

So anything found in a location is suppose to be given to whomever owns said location?

 

[gnasher729]

Amazingly you still don't get what I'm saying. It's only theft if you attempt to profit from the find in which case it's fraud. Finding the item is not a crime but pretending to be the owner in order to sell it or in this case claim a prize is fraud or misrepresentation. If they'd just thrown the ticket in the bin they would not be committing a crime.

Finding an item is never a crime. Taking a lost item and not making reasonable efforts to return it to the owner is a crime. Especially in California, where you can check the laws that they have, and it does indeed say that it is legally theft.

Finding a piece of paper on the street, not realising that it is a lottery ticket and assuming it is litter, then throwing it in a waste bin, that would not be a crime.

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So anything found in a location is suppose to be given to whomever owns said location?

Yes. Everything at that location is in their possession, like everything in my home is in my possession, everything in a bus is in possession of the bus company and so on. They are of course not the owner. It's similar to handing over your coat in a theatre; it's in the theatre's possession but they have to give it back to you because you are the owner. And if you lose your phone in a theatre, it is in their possession just like your coat. They have to return it to you; if anyone else takes it that would be theft.

 

[Xiroteus]

Yes. Everything at that location is in their possession, like everything in my home is in my possession, everything in a bus is in possession of the bus company and so on. They are of course not the owner. It's similar to handing over your coat in a theatre; it's in the theatre's possession but they have to give it back to you because you are the owner. And if you lose your phone in a theatre, it is in their possession just like your coat. They have to return it to you; if anyone else takes it that would be theft.

I will not call it theft if the person wants to make sure it will get to its rightful owner. Depending what I find I tend to hand it over to that location because I figure that is where the person will return and someone there can contact them, however if it was an item of great value I would trust myself more then some random person to make sure that item gets returned. That is when I would likely leave my name number etc and what I found so they would know who to contact. I even did that with twenty dollars once, I wanted to make sure the owner got their money back. Of course that was at a Hotel I was staying at and I ended up running into them looking for it, same with a wallet I found, opened it just so I could see their picture and noticed them looking around.

I likely would have left that at the store, there are not many cases where I would take said item home and try to find the owner myself because no real reason to. Still think that law is a little off with something like a bus. Other locations are likely fine.

 

[trrosen]

if they left the phone in the bar _intentionally_ then it wasn't lost, but abandoned, so anyone could pick it up legally.

Nope not how it works. Even if purposely abandoned he still "STOLE" The phone. He just would have stole it from the bar ( the legal owner ) and not Apple.

Finder keepers is not a legal precedent.

 

[quagmire]

Except we aren't talking about some kids lost dog here. We are talking about something a corporation lost. I may be in the minority here but I do not consider corporations to be people. They do not have souls, emotions or honor. They do not as far as I know, have a consciousness that will "miss" the lost/stolen item.
Also, this wasn't just a loaf of bread that fell off a truck. It was a leaked prototype of a product from a company that is maddeningly secretive about it's product roadmaps. I would posit that he had a duty as a citizen in a technologically driven, social media obsessed, democratic, capitalist society to share that prototype with the world, and cash in, in the process.

Citizens United not withstanding.

I don't consider corporations to be people. But, the phone is still the legal property of Apple. You still would be doing illegal activity for selling lost property.

I would have taken pictures of the device, returned the device to Apple, and sold the pictures if I was profit-motivated. That would be the legal way to go about it( just as long as Apple didn't make me sign a NDA).

 

[Dieu]

"100-Year-Old Law

First: The problem with the Internet is that it allows dumb asses to communicate with a broader audience. Thus, propagating more stupidity. Amazing how you clowns are turning this Hogan character into a victim. The only remorse this thief has exhibited is his disappointment that Gizmodo did not make good on the additional $3,000. Second: Let us not minimize this theft by suggesting that a "100-year old law" is somehow archaic or invalid. Let me explain this for the "editor" of this article.

Mislaid property is personal property that was intentionally set down by its owner and then forgotten. An iPhone accidentally left on a table in a restaurant is mislaid. Mislaid property, generally goes to the owner of the property where it was found. The theory is that the owner of mislaid property is more likely to remember where the property is. Allowing property owners to keep it makes it easier for the true owner to recover the property.

In addition, there are statutes that modify the common law's treatment of lost or abandoned property. Some states (most) require the "finder" to take affirmative steps in returning the property. Typically, these statutes require lost personal property to be turned over to a government official (cops), and that if the property is not claimed within a set period of time, it goes to the finder and the original owner's rights to the property are terminated.

None of these steps were taken by Hogan. To the contrary, this clown shopped it around while looking for the highest bidder. I"ll argue that the activities of Hogan and those fools at Gizmodo turned mislaid property, i.e., iPhone into stolen property. So, the implication set forth by the editor of this article suggesting that Hogan was a victim of a "100 year old law" is amateurish.

Advice to the Editor: Do your homework and present both sides!

 

[69650]

It's not about being thick or anything. AppleCare is not a lost and found for secret Apple prototypes... They are not setup, trained, etc to handle it. They don't know who to contact.

Like posted earlier, CA law obligates him to make reasonable attempts to return it. Making one attempt at a place that would not know what to do is not satisfying his reasonable attempts obligation. He had other ways that are reasonable to return it to Apple.

So blaming the engineer for Hogan's stupidity in selling lost property.... You blame the Steubenville, Ohio rape victim for getting herself raped?

"They don't know who to contact"

Sorry but I stopped reading at that point.

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Nope not how it works. Even if purposely abandoned he still "STOLE" The phone. He just would have stole it from the bar ( the legal owner ) and not Apple. Finder keepers is not a legal precedent.

Wrong & wrong. He found the phone, asked around the bar if anyone owned it and when nobody said yes he took it. He didn't steal anything.

Ownership of the property does not pass to the bar owner. It still belongs to the owner (Apple) even if it's not in their possession.

His only "crime" was trying to sell it on rather than trying to return it, because he is then misrepresenting himself as the owner of the phone which technically is fraud.

 

[mbh]

I would have handed it to the bartender. "Someone lost this." Done.

i call bs

When honest people find something that doesn't belong to them they turn it in to lost and found so that the owner can reclaim it later.

Congratulations, you learned something today!

 

[Jynto]

I saw someone using an iPhone 4 in the waiting room today. Think about that.

It took 3 years to go from 'top-secret phone from THE FUTURE' to 'commonplace at best, and a little bit dated'.

 

[Mark Booth]

Picking up a phone that you KNOW doesn't belong to you and then attempting to PROFIT from said phone rather than returning it to its rightful owner = DIRTBAG!

At the time of his offense, Hogan was completely lacking in personal honor. I have ZERO tolerance for dirtbags without personal honor.

Mark

 

[Dieu]

Not quite correct Shaun: Now,we have everyone playing lawyer. Hogan was to leave the phone with the bar/restaurant owner. He was under no obligation to take the phone and solicit buyers. If Our Good Samaritan Hogan was so inclined to find its owner, he could have left it at the bar, drop it off at the police station, OR TAKE IT IN TO A LOCAL APPLE STORE AND EXPLAIN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Can't wait to read the next inaccurate and misguided post.

"They don't know who to contact"

Sorry but I stopped reading at that point.

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Wrong & wrong. He found the phone, asked around the bar if anyone owned it and when nobody said yes he took it. He didn't steal anything.

Ownership of the property does not pass to the bar owner. It still belongs to the owner (Apple) even if it's not in their possession.

His only "crime" was trying to sell it on rather than trying to return it, because he is then misrepresenting himself as the owner of the phone which technically is fraud.