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I am using Firefox for one very simple reason, there is no Safari alternative that in any way shape or form beats one simple plug in called Adblock Plus

If Safari had a plug in that worked equally as good, not mostly ,or even so damn close its not funny, but equally...I'd switch in a heartbeat.
 
Also, it's pretty weak using the Acid3 tests as proof. The current public release of Safari does NOT pass the Acid3 test, you're using webkit, which does, great, but that isn't 'current safari' - comparing a mainstream to a beta (or even 2 betas for that matter) is a complete waste of time.
Not true when we're trying to pick which browser to use based on its support for web standards. Just because they're betas doesn't mean you can't use it as your main browser.

Also, not sure where you're getting "firefox is jerky" 'n such from. That's a personal problem for you and your computer. The rest of the world uses firefox without the jerkiness.
That's not true. Firefox does not scroll as smoothly as Safari, plain and simple. Perhaps you have the smooth scrolling plugin set up *this does not come as default with FireFox.

You say to use facts, but the only argument you have that uses any fair grounding is that "firefox is jerky" which in and of itself is an opinion which doesn't mean jack ****.
Something being jerky isn't an opinion...

I'm not defending firefox, honestly, I just hate the way your arguments suck so badly. Yeah, WEBKIT passed the Acid3, not the curr release of safari, everything else is all opinion, and as for shortcuts, the ones you mentioned are exactly the same in firefox.
Safari 4 is the current release of Safari for Windows and is as good as a current release on OS X.

Me? I use webkit - why? It passes the Acid3, and that's pretty much all I care about, I use my own personal PHP bookmark keeper/organizer that I made, I don't use history, I don't let browsers remember my passwords, and I can't care less what "add-ons" it has. Though in linux I use firefox and have no issues with it.
I'm just going to venture a guess: You didn't hear about Safari 4 being out did you? Webkit isn't a web browser! You're just using Safari with a different build of webkit. And didn't you just say that basing a decision on the Acid3 test was weak?

My only real beef with Safari is two things:
A) If you're an apple fan boy, you will swear by it without any kind of solid or factual proof what-so-ever (though I guess that's just the nature of the beast)
Not a problem with Safari...

B) WHY, in apple's infinite (pretty damn finite if you're not an end user) did they deem that safari/webkit doesn't need to have a "don't remember any history" option in preferences? The only way to stop it from remembering **** is to lock the damn history files while they're empty...that's pathetic.
Meh...

You do realize that the releases of webkit you're using are indeed betas, right?
 
I use safari. Firefox is just awkward feeling i cant really explain it besides choppy scrolling, escpecially on flash sites. But I'm ready for chrome to come out for mac. I'm on a google binge right now

i agree - i cannot wait for Chrome on the Mac!

i use firefox because of foxmarks - keeping all of my bookmarks synced across all the computers i use is very important for me.
 
Not true when we're trying to pick which browser to use based on its support for web standards.

The Acid test should advise you, which browser support more standards?
One example:
Safari 2 passed the Acid 2 test and achieve 39 points on the Acid 3 test.
Firefox 2 not passed the Acid 2 test and achieve 52 points on the Acid 3 test.

When the acid tests really indicate the web standards support would be these results impossible and it is simply not true that the Acid tests indicate, which browser has a better web standards support.

The Safari and Opera guys spend only more attention to these special Acid tests - that`s all ;-)
 
The Safari and Opera guys spend only more attention to these special Acid tests - that`s all ;-)

agree, acid3 author publicly said that when he design acid4, he will avoid letting browser makers know the items in the test such that those "targeted optimizations" will not happen again.

To argue acid3, acid 2, or any acid test, people better read more into the detail in order not to be deceived by a pure number.

I applaud people paying attention to the acid test, but don't get too sucked into it. unhealthy.
 
That's not true. Firefox does not scroll as smoothly as Safari, plain and simple. Perhaps you have the smooth scrolling plugin set up *this does not

Plain and simple: Use a Firefox 3.1 Beta - it scroll much better and as smoothly as Safari ;-)
 
The Safari 4 Beta is definitely a step up over 3 and I did use it for a few days, but in the end I found that surfing without my extensions was really affecting my efficiency. Probably the 2 biggest reasons I went back to Firefox 3 was because of the search engine plugins (1 click to change to Wikipedia search or Pirate Bay search) and AdBlock Plus.

I think Safari has a better technical foundation under it but in the end Firefox saves me time and effort.
 
I use Safari for it's simplicity and sheer speed... Especially now that the Safari 4 beta is out.

Very rarely do I have to open a page in FF because Safari doesn't render it right.

FF just seems kind of jerky to me and I'm not a big fan of its UI.
 
i will more seriously give safari more usage when it reach maturity and provide the functions i need. until then, once a month is all I can give it.
 
i will more seriously give safari more usage when it reach maturity and provide the functions i need. until then, once a month is all I can give it.

I will give Firefox more usage when it actually becomes a Mac application rather than the thing we have at the moment that takes 10 dock bounces as it desperately tried to rewrite its code at start up.

As I have said to you before Gecko is now seriously antiquated technology.

:apple:
 
I will give Firefox more usage when it actually becomes a Mac application rather than the thing we have at the moment that takes 10 dock bounces as it desperately tried to rewrite its code at start up.

As I have said to you before Gecko is now seriously antiquated technology.

:apple:

sure thing. I hope not everybody doing start-close cycle every 5 minutes.:p

antiquate technology? read the post above you, #83. sorry antiquate technology still do more and better than your high new thing that started in 1998. How new!
 
I have Safari, FF, and Opera on my dock...

FF is unbearable. SO slow and awkward.
Safari is far better for browsing, though FF does have some plugins you can't get on Safari. FF is there if Safari gives me trouble accessing sites.
 
I use safari as my primary, every so often for special needs I will use opera or ff. In that order
 
im really not sure what you guys that think firefox is slow are doing wrong, but dont think that is normal.
 
I will give Firefox more usage when it actually becomes a Mac application rather than the thing we have at the moment that takes 10 dock bounces as it desperately tried to rewrite its code at start up.

As I have said to you before Gecko is now seriously antiquated technology.

:apple:

Lmao. Good old fashion fanboy MO, impossible comparisons and ******** info.

"mac application vs things we have at the moment"
- It is a mac application, like it or not.

"that takes 10 dock bounces as it desperately tried"
- Fanboy clock: Time is now given it "dock bounces" rather than seconds

Not true when we're trying to pick which browser to use based on its support for web standards. Just because they're betas doesn't mean you can't use it as your main browser.

Yes, I know, as I stated in my last post, where I use webkit. I can't care less one way or the other, but there's a lot of weak, unfair, and ******** arguments going on against firefox due to the territory of this forum.

That's not true. Firefox does not scroll as smoothly as Safari, plain and simple. Perhaps you have the smooth scrolling plugin set up *this does not come as default with FireFox.

It has a smooth scrolling feature, it is NOT a plugin, simply a feature in preferences. I hardly see the fact that something is not enabled by default a reason to not use a program.

Something being jerky isn't an opinion...

The hell it isn't. There's lots of things some consider jerky that others see no problem. A lot of iMac users here use the mighty mouse, so they can't tell by "clicks of the wheel" - so it seems jerky to them.

Unfortunately for them they're only 10% of the population, the rest use regular mice with a clicking wheel which works nicely with the way some browsers scroll. It is VERY much so a preference.

Safari 4 is the current release of Safari for Windows and is as good as a current release on OS X.

Unfortunately "as good" doesn't imply "is"

I'm just going to venture a guess: You didn't hear about Safari 4 being out did you? Webkit isn't a web browser! You're just using Safari with a different build of webkit. And didn't you just say that basing a decision on the Acid3 test was weak?

It's very weak, the only thing is, it's the only thing I give a flying **** about in an internet browser, as I don't use history, I don't use bookmarks (at least not the conventional kind stored locally), I don't use password keys, and I don't use any of the 99 billion plugins out there.

So yes, comparing an overall browser experience via Acid3 tests is very weak. The only reason I can justify me using the latest webkit builds is because because I don't care in the slightest about "overall user experience" when it comes to an internet browser, so outside of personal preferences with the program, web compliance and client side resources is all you can gauge it by.


You do realize that the releases of webkit you're using are indeed betas, right?

I do, but the issue I speak of isn't a "latest build of webkit" problem - it's never been an option to not remember history in safari as far as I remember.

Apple makes too many decisions "for you" in hopes of appeasing end users who want their computer to "just work" - this usually ends up screwing you over if you know how your computer "just works."
 
Right I am not getting into any of these browser debates anymore you use what you want and I will do the same. :)

In fact I am going to ignore these threads in future. I have never posted personal insults to other forum member ever! however people feel free to do it here and no moderators question it.

All I am going to say is I am forced to use a dial up connection most of the time and I need every speed assist to load a page I can get.

If Firefox was the greatest thing since sliced bread believe you me I would be using it :rolleyes:
 
All I am going to say is I am forced to use a dial up connection most of the time and I need every speed assist to load a page I can get.

If Firefox was the greatest thing since sliced bread believe you me I would be using it :rolleyes:

lmao, u complained that firefox need more bounce to open, now you say "speed" is loading pages. which do you mean? and how did you know safari load pages faster? because apple told you so?

or are you aware of the speed limit factors for a browser?

This place is already filled with rhetorical statements, doesn't mean a thing!

You don't use every greatest app ever made, you use whichever you like for whatever reason, its not like some people are so smart, they always ID the "best" and use the "best". lol, Haven't seen that kind of guy in years. myself included.
 
I started using Firefox about 8 months ago because I wanted something as good as Safari for my XP partition (Safari XP being pants at the time).
I've never had such a crash happy browser. Everything else is fine, except the interface and the spell checker isn't quite as good as Safari OSX's.

Safari 4 seems the absolute best for now. Everything works well and really fast. Sorry Firefox!
 
You don't use every greatest app ever made, you use whichever you like for whatever reason, its not like some people are so smart, they always ID the "best" and use the "best". lol, Haven't seen that kind of guy in years. myself included.

I find that almost as insulting as what I complained to the moderators about earlier on. In fact I am so hacked off with all this I am thinking of removing Firefox from every computer I use even PC's
 
If Safari had a plug in that worked equally as good, not mostly ,or even so damn close its not funny, but equally...I'd switch in a heartbeat.

I find that Safari Adblock does everything I need as well as Adblock Plus - you can set it up with the same filter subscriptions, so the only differences are Flash blocking (which clicktoflash will give you) and the lack of a context menu.
 
B) WHY, in apple's infinite (pretty damn finite if you're not an end user) did they deem that safari/webkit doesn't need to have a "don't remember any history" option in preferences? The only way to stop it from remembering **** is to lock the damn history files while they're empty...that's pathetic.
Is this something different than Private Browsing?
 
I find that almost as insulting as what I complained to the moderators about earlier on. In fact I am so hacked off with all this I am thinking of removing Firefox from every computer I use even PC's

go ahead, you use whichever app for whatever reason. mad at me can be one of the reasons. I have no problem with that at all.

I found it insulting that your previous statement obviously imply us firefox users as not able to know what is good and what is not.

Lets be equal here, dont pretend to know other people's situation for a change.
 
I find that almost as insulting as what I complained to the moderators about earlier on. In fact I am so hacked off with all this I am thinking of removing Firefox from every computer I use even PC's

I don't think anybody meant to insult you directly, possibly the logic behind your arguments, as there seems to be a lot of opinion backed arguments floating around this thread.

Though if you hate firefox that much then you remove it from every computer you use - EVEN PC's. It won't affect anything, any.

You should use whatever browser you want for whatever reason you want, not because "Apple told me their browser is better" and not because "an apple forum on the interwebz told me safari was better." Use whichever browser you want for whatever "user experience" reason you want, not because "you heard" - that's just stupid.

Is this something different than Private Browsing?

I don't know anything about private browsing, I'd just like the oppertunity, like opera has, like firefox, hell, even like IE has, to NOT remember history, I don't use it, I don't want it, I don't like it. In safari I gotta manually lock files so Safari can't change stuff, though I believe there should still be in option in the preferences about it, like there is on every other browser.

Preferences should be where "preferences" are, not "where preferences that apple things you may want to edit" are.

lmao, u complained that firefox need more bounce to open, now you say "speed" is loading pages. which do you mean? and how did you know safari load pages faster? because apple told you so?

or are you aware of the speed limit factors for a browser?

This place is already filled with rhetorical statements, doesn't mean a thing!

You don't use every greatest app ever made, you use whichever you like for whatever reason, its not like some people are so smart, they always ID the "best" and use the "best". lol, Haven't seen that kind of guy in years. myself included.

Yeah, I also find that hard to believe. A lot of people believe what they're using is the best simply because they haven't had a lot of experience with other programs that have the same functionality at perhaps different levels of quality.

I believe somebody can only make a valid argument as per the user experience of each browser if they do indeed use each browser on a daily basis (ie. they actually live with it). I get the feeling here a lot of people arguing both ways are arguing like this:
1) Use browser A
2) Try browser B for 5 minutes
3) Go back to browser A

That' simply the wrong way of going about it.

When I started using webkit on this computer (OS X) I cringed at Safari's usability, as I was very used to firefox, BUT, I didn't run back to firefox. I set it up, I set the certain lib files to unmutatable so I can have the rest of my preferences that should have been in there to begin with, and I messed with it.

I have no problems using both safari (latest webkit beta build) and firefox on a daily basis. So I fail to see where all the problems arguing each lie.

Though maybe it's because I use browsers in a very minimalistic way, without the keychains, and history, and clientside bookmarks, and all that other crap...

The only problem I have is that it seems in webkits quest to become 100% acid3 compliant, they "broke" other web standards. I mean yeah, sure, now they are web compliant, but now a bunch of other sites aren't displaying right because not everybody builds sites that are 100% web compliant.

Though that's usually just some overlapping issues or something, everything else has been equal IMO between the two browsers.

I will say that on my mac Safari loads faster, but that's not a reason for me to exclude firefox...and I use firefox all the time, and I use it on my linux and windows systems as well without issues...

So how can I so passionately say they're the same while everybody claims it has to be one way or the other? Is it some weird form of an absolute dilemma?
 
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