FireWire to Reach 3.2 Gigabit/s Speeds

[edoates]

It's never to late to do a way with HDMI. Having used it, it's complete mess.

The key would be of course will be intelligent switching on the devices that use the new Firewire. Allowing any port to be in or out.

Unless the new Firewire 3200 can support HDCP (copy protection) type schemes (no, I don't like them either), consumer electronics will continue to use HDMI and/or HDCP DVI. There are enough TVs, projectors, DVD, and HD-DVD and Bluray devices out there now that HDMI lives for a while yet.

My video cam has firewire for HDV transfers (wildly compress, but that's what on the tape, too) and HDMI for uncompressed 1920x1080 60i direct transfers (not recorded on tape); some newer cameras with solid state or Hard drive internals are starting to record higher band widths, but until you get to pro stuff now, it's all pretty compressed. Internal camera hard drives are too slow, and uncompressed HD uses up LOTS of space, and the solid state memory devices, like P2, are ungodly expensive.

Ed.

 

[maxrobertson]

But what about all the Windows users with nary a Firewire port? For that reason I doubt Apple will ever use Firewire with an iPod again.

Actually, it seems like most PCs are getting FireWire now (wow... what was that, a decade?). I saw a cheap tower at Wal-Mart and was surprised to find a nice FireWire port on it.

 

[macinfojunkie]

HDMI what?

Seeing as in Europe TV Sets that want to carry the "HD Ready" logo need at least 1 HDMI (or DVI) connection, why on earth do people think that this new Firewire format is going to have the slightest impact on HDTV and other consumer products what use HDMI? Currently I can't think of a single reason why Sony, Panasonic et al would even consider using this new connection type. People are barking up the wrong tree on the application of this new development if they think it will displace HDMI. That deal has been done and will be in place until the specification for the next generational shift in broadcast TV takes place in a few decades time!

 

[Analog Kid]

Indeed. USB2 is plenty fast for one 7200 rpm drive. Those 1.8" drives are pretty bad performance wise. But it's good enough for audio and stamp sized video. Plus you got those seek times, basically for every track that has to be synced.

You're right on the iPod drives, but USB2 isn't quite up to supporting a single 7200rpm drive.

Same link indicates Windows does, in fact, run USB2 faster...

THIS ROCKS!!!FIREWIRE finally a speed increase. Firewire was already kicking USB backside. But this will smash it in little bits. I love firewire. It's saved me countless times. Target diskmode is such a great feature.

Gotta agree target disk mode is fantastic... Had an Xserve go down at work and brought it back up by booting it from my Powerbook in target disk mode.

 

[FCPnewbie]

Could the new Firewire standard work with a mini Firewire connector?

FW800 doesn't have a mini connector. You're thinking of the FW400 4 pin connector.

Here's the deal on the FW connectors:

FW400 had 2 different types (sizes) of connectors. The larger one was a 6 pin configuration that allowed the transmission of power to an external unit such as an external hard drive.
The smaller one was a 4 pin configuration that carried only data. No power.

FW800 as far as I know never had a smaller connector. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Sony's i-link is not limited to the smaller 4 pin connector. Some of their professional DVCam gear had the 6 pin connector which bore the i-link insignia.

 

[0007776]

Would it be any faster though? I thought the bottle neck was getting the data on to the disk as it's only 4200rpm.

firewire 400 is all they need for iPods, USB though is slower than firewire for loading songs to a HDD based iPod.

 

[bigbossbmb]

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A) HDMI 1.3 has way more data throughput than this new FW. You're a moron if you think this can get close to HDMI.

B) This better not delay my Harpertown Mac Pro!!!

 

[macFanDave]

Am I the only one in here who never liked the FW800 connector?
I never felt that it locked in very securely and would liked to have seen a better connector with the new spec. I know I know, we all like to keep connectors the same so current cables continue working and it helps keep the cost down, but the old connector never instilled me with much confidence that it was going to stay put.

It pains me to say that I've never used a FireWire 800 connector, even though I have had a port on my G5 PowerMac for four years!!!

What does that tell you about the market penetration of FW 800?

 

[whatever]

Actually, when removed the firewire controller from the inside of the iPod with the 5G's, claimed they were able to make the iPod even thinner. It had nothing to do with the external dock connector.

I can feel the speed difference syncing my 4G with FW vs USB2. I know when I buy a 160GB/Classic, it is going to take a very long time for the initial load up. Boooo.

Here's to hoping that the FW3200 controller would be nice and thin and could be reintroduced to the Classics! Yeah, I'll pop for the FW cable myself...

Well, it could also be because Apple no longer had to have two controllers in there (Firewire and USB).

 

[Sweetfeld28]

Target Disk Mode is the mainstay for me sticking with Firewire. I like the fact that the bus is powered, and i don't need an extra cable for power like i would for USB, just to power my pocket HD.


However, i don't see the Firewire 3200 be implemented any day soon. And even if it is, then they would have to figure out a way to make it as cost effective as USB [manufacturing cost], so more people/companies use it. Hopefully, it won't end up like FW800, when only Apple was/is selling it with their computers. But, yes lately FW400 has been becoming more and more common on the PC side of computers.

I just wish more Computer manufacturers would adopt the faster FW controllers.

 

[whatever]

allow me!

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-hdmi.htm

simple question, simple answer!


I'd love to see a FireWire iPod again, but I agree that we most likely never will. I'm sure 90% of iPod users are on USB-only PCs. USB2 can be painfully slow (for what it's supposed to be), but once you do the initial loading, syncing a couple dozen new songs at any given point doesn't take but a minute or two.

One thing I learned is that HDMI is great an theory but awful in implementation.

Two things to keep in mind:
1. If you plan to run you Home Theater system through an AV/Receiver then you only need on HDMI port on your Display (you run a HDMI cable out from the receiver and into the Display).

2. Make sure that you Display also has Component Video. Everyone I talked to recommended that I go run Component Video as backup (granted all of my speakers are hidden in the wall and all of my components are tucked away in my basement, so all of my cabling is in the walls.). Some HDMI devices just don't work when you use a switcher (I've been lucky so far, but most of my stuff is from Pioneer's Elite line, but Cable boxes, TiVo and older devices appear to be the worst offenders).

I really wanted to go 100% HDMI for my setup, but eventually I gave in (granted the additional cabling only cost $250.00, so it really wasn't an issue).

Here is an excellent article on HDMI, entitled "What's the Matter with HDMI", I found that it really helped me.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/whats-the-matter-with-hdmi

 

[iPhil]

With S3200 this power advantage for FireWire is fully preserved. S3200 also makes FireWire so fast that users will see no advantage from eSATA. Both interfaces are much faster than any modern hard drive mechanism, but eSATA does not provide electrical power to operate a drive. On a computer, an eSATA port is far less flexible than a FireWire port, because many more devices can connect to FireWire. For these reasons, S3200 makes FireWire the superior choice for future external storage products.




The Silicon Working Group developed the S3200 specification within the 1394 Trade Association, with participation by industry leaders including Symwave, Texas Instruments, LSI Corporation, and Oxford Semiconductor. S3200 specifies the electrical operation of the 3.2 Gigabit mode first specified by IEEE 1394b-2002, without changing any connector, cable, protocol, or software requirements. Based on the working group's progress, the Trade Association has set a January 2008 date for the specification to enter a ratification process.



the quotes came from this site Bolded sections are my doing ..

 

[mccldwll]

Store down. Anyone know why?

or what time it went down?

 

[whatever]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

A) HDMI 1.3 has way more data throughput than this new FW. You're a moron if you think this can get close to HDMI.

B) This better not delay my Harpertown Mac Pro!!!

Yeah, but what happens when you attempt a 100' run of HDMI cable.

Well, for starters, it will cost you a couple of thousand dollars, if you can find it and second it won't work!

Also many of the consumer products out today don't even support HDMI 1.3, they're still using HDMI 1.1 and 1.2.

 

[Chris F]

Few consumer products currently support HDMI 1.3.

Specific 1.3 features such as deep color are also almost non existent in the current market.

Wide spread adoption of 1.3 hardware will occur this year (almost everything will have it), support in media (e.g: BD discs using Deep Color) may be slightly slower.

 

[notjustjay]

Yeah, but what happens when you attempt a 100' run of HDMI cable.

Well, for starters, it will cost you a couple of thousand dollars, if you can find it

Uh, I beg to differ.

 

[AidenShaw]

All MacBooks already have PCIe....

Now incorporating this and PCIe into one of those new "ultra-portable" MB's, and I'll be set.

The Napa and Santa Rosa chipsets are PCIe-based, so it's almost a given that the smaller MBP will be PCIe.

A true "ultra-portable" might be based on a different chipset, but I doubt that anything much smaller than 12" or 13" will be coming until Silverthorne...

 

[macinfojunkie]

or what time it went down?

It'll be so funny if 3G iphones make an appearance

 

[diamond.g]

Few consumer products currently support HDMI 1.3.

Specific 1.3 features such as deep color are also almost non existent in the current market.

Wide spread adoption of 1.3 hardware will occur this year (almost everything will have it), support in media (e.g: BD discs using Deep Color) may be slightly slower.

Most of HDMI's features are fringe stuff that most average people don't care about. Firewire could displace it, assuming there is no need for those fringe things.

 

[liberty4all]

Yea, S6400 (6.4 Gbps) is on its way to

Yea, S6400 (6.4 Gbps) is on its way too, see:
http://lw.pennnet.com/display_artic...New-developments-in-IEEE-1394-(aka-FireWire)/

 

[Thomas2006]

But what about all the Windows users with nary a Firewire port? For that reason I doubt Apple will ever use Firewire with an iPod again.

I think both USB and FireWire could be used to sync and power the iPod and iPhone, but by using USB only, Apple doesn't have to deal with offering two types of cables, which cuts costs. Maybe USB 3.0 will give us our speed back.

 

[bigbossbmb]

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This will not replace HDMI in home theaters. This is for uncompressed HD in professional environments, not broadcast or optical media.

 

[daddywags214]

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This will not replace HDMI in home theaters. This is for uncompressed HD in professional environments, not broadcast or optical media.

Yeah, exactly. It'd offer no advantage in a home theater setting, currently. It could have some good consumer uses when applied to computers, though, of course.

 

[coolfactor]

There isn't enough space in current generation iPods for a Firewire controller, it would also increase the price of the units. Just look at the thickness and cost of the third-generation iPod.

Firewire is dead in the water for iPods.

Close, but no cigar. On the iPod side, they use the thin iPod connector. Always been that way, except with the shuffles and the first-gen iPod.

 

[Jetson]

I miss my "plug and play" SCSI connectors.