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FirmTek miniSwap/U3

Tanax said:
Apart from the price-tag, lol ^^
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I guess so, if you're on a budget. The MiniStation was $160 from Amazon, including shipping (I'm a Prime customer) and the miniSwap/U3 was $110 with shipping. But with the MiniStation I also got a 500 GB HDD, which I'm going to use, somewhat ironically, in the miniSwap/U3 because it supports hot-swapping and has that swinging door access. Considering that I paid $230 for each of the 840 Pro's that went into the enclosures, and that I now have a spare 500GB drive, the price difference is pretty minuscule.

I personally think that the biggest consideration is whether you want TRIM support or a potentially greater ability to use the drive with more computers. Since the only USB 3.0 capable computer that I use also has Thunderbolt, it's a pretty easy decision for me, but if USB 3.0 was more prevalent in my circle I *might* lean toward it - but TRIM support, at least for me, is pretty significant. Oh, the MiniStation comes with a Thunderbolt (and USB 3.0) cable, in case anyone was wondering. Whichever way you go, they are blazingly fast - it's good either way!
 
"Well, historically with USB vs Thunderbolt, USB uses more CPU."

That was then. This is now.

UASP changes all that, changes it completely.

Even though connected via the USB bus, storage devices now _communicate_ using SCSI protocols.

A drive connected via USB3 in an enclosure equipped with the proper technology, can achieve speeds as fast as -- or maybe faster than -- an external thunderbolt drive.

USB ain't what it used to be.
If anything, it has become "the way to the future"…

Thunderbolt is a very capable technology, but it will "whither on the vine" and eventually fade from the scene much faster than firewire has.

Aside: remember when _firewire_ was being touted the same way as thunderbolt is now?
 
Fishrrman said:
Thunderbolt is a very capable technology, but it will "whither on the vine" and eventually fade from the scene much faster than firewire has.

Aside: remember when _firewire_ was being touted the same way as thunderbolt is now?
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It has a better chance this time, but typical Apple head scratch on release & license schedule BS.
 
thedeske said:
It has a better chance this time, but typical Apple head scratch on release & license schedule BS.
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A minor point, maybe, but the release and licensing issues are Intel, not Apple. Maybe TRIM isn't a big deal anymore, but it's enough to drive me to use the Thunderbolt SSD preferentially over the USB 3.0 SSD.
 
I just ordered one of these Firmtek items. They are out of stock so I have to wait but the order is placed.

Though I almost never am inclined to buy something based on a fast trigger finger from reading forums, this item seems to fit the bill perfectly.

I hope that they will also come out with one for a 3.5" drive or 2 drives in an enclosure for both 2.5 and 3.5.

Thanks much for identifying this product.
 
Nuke61 said:
I guess so, if you're on a budget. The MiniStation was $160 from Amazon, including shipping (I'm a Prime customer) and the miniSwap/U3 was $110 with shipping. But with the MiniStation I also got a 500 GB HDD, which I'm going to use, somewhat ironically, in the miniSwap/U3 because it supports hot-swapping and has that swinging door access. Considering that I paid $230 for each of the 840 Pro's that went into the enclosures, and that I now have a spare 500GB drive, the price difference is pretty minuscule.

I personally think that the biggest consideration is whether you want TRIM support or a potentially greater ability to use the drive with more computers. Since the only USB 3.0 capable computer that I use also has Thunderbolt, it's a pretty easy decision for me, but if USB 3.0 was more prevalent in my circle I *might* lean toward it - but TRIM support, at least for me, is pretty significant. Oh, the MiniStation comes with a Thunderbolt (and USB 3.0) cable, in case anyone was wondering. Whichever way you go, they are blazingly fast - it's good either way!
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Unfortunately, the 500GB version of MiniStation only comes with SATA II and not SATA III. If you need SATA III you'll need to fork up more money since you'll need to purchase the SSD version.
 
Tanax said:
Unfortunately, the 500GB version of MiniStation only comes with SATA II and not SATA III. If you need SATA III you'll need to fork up more money since you'll need to purchase the SSD version.
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I get 345/385 write/read speeds from the 500GB MiniStation, so I'm not seeing why anyone would care that it's SATA II vs SATA III. The real world difference between the MiniStation and the slightly faster miniSwap/U3 is basically nothing. I cannot tell any performance difference between the two using identical 840 Pro SSDs, even though the miniSwap has better "bragging rights" benchmark results of 425/425 write/read speeds.
 
Nuke61 said:
I get 345/385 write/read speeds from the 500GB MiniStation, so I'm not seeing why anyone would care that it's SATA II vs SATA III. The real world difference between the MiniStation and the slightly faster miniSwap/U3 is basically nothing. I cannot tell any performance difference between the two using identical 840 Pro SSDs, even though the miniSwap has better "bragging rights" benchmark results of 425/425 write/read speeds.
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True, the real world difference is perhaps not THAT much.
But also take into account that the MiniStation is more difficult to install your own disk into, isn't it? The miniSwap is hot-swappable so it's much easier to install your own disk into :)
 
Tanax said:
True, the real world difference is perhaps not THAT much.
But also take into account that the MiniStation is more difficult to install your own disk into, isn't it? The miniSwap is hot-swappable so it's much easier to install your own disk into :)
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You need to bear in mind no TRIM support, apparently, over USB. So any tangible speed gains may well be negated over time.

Pure speculation, of course.
 
Tanax said:
True, the real world difference is perhaps not THAT much.
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Initially, but because the USB 3.0 drive doesn't support TRIM, that small difference will only get smaller as the SSDs are used. You may not care, but I think lack of TRIM support is a big deal.

But also take into account that the MiniStation is more difficult to install your own disk into, isn't it? The miniSwap is hot-swappable so it's much easier to install your own disk into :)
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Is the miniSwap easier to set up? Absolutely, but opening up the MiniStation was easy. Heat bottom with heat gun or hair dryer until it's almost too hot to touch, slowly pry the top off, then remove 6 screws and remove the old drive. It took me less than 5 minutes total.

I have both of them, but if I had it to do over again, I would have skipped the miniSwap and bought a second MiniStation. In actual usage the speed difference is meaningless, the lack of TRIM isn't. However, if the ability to hot-swap drives is something you want, the miniSwap is a fantastic choice.
 
A bit curious - the Firmtek USB3 offering (mine is backordered sigh) ... has anyone tried it with USB2 and if so, does it fair as well or better than other USB2 connected devices?

Again - just curious as its always good to know what other ways it can be used on the road.
 
Nuke61 said:
Initially, but because the USB 3.0 drive doesn't support TRIM, that small difference will only get smaller as the SSDs are used. You may not care, but I think lack of TRIM support is a big deal.


Is the miniSwap easier to set up? Absolutely, but opening up the MiniStation was easy. Heat bottom with heat gun or hair dryer until it's almost too hot to touch, slowly pry the top off, then remove 6 screws and remove the old drive. It took me less than 5 minutes total.

I have both of them, but if I had it to do over again, I would have skipped the miniSwap and bought a second MiniStation. In actual usage the speed difference is meaningless, the lack of TRIM isn't. However, if the ability to hot-swap drives is something you want, the miniSwap is a fantastic choice.
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You could use this, of course: http://www.groths.org/trim-enabler/. Not entirely sure if it will work for exactly this setup but it should work.
 
Tanax said:
You could use this, of course: http://www.groths.org/trim-enabler/. Not entirely sure if it will work for exactly this setup but it should work.
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I already tried it, as I reported in post #6. The internal Fusion drive has TRIM support via OSX, the external Thunderbolt SSD via Groth's, but Groth's doesn't support TRIM on the external USB 3.0 SSD. I don't know if TRIM is supported on USB on Windows and this is a Mac issue, or if it's just not supported on USB. In any case, as of right now on OSX, if you want TRIM support it has to be an internally connected drive or Thunderbolt.

----------
phrehdd said:
A bit curious - the Firmtek USB3 offering (mine is backordered sigh) ... has anyone tried it with USB2 and if so, does it fair as well or better than other USB2 connected devices?

Again - just curious as its always good to know what other ways it can be used on the road.
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I don't have any USB 2.0 enclosures I could try it with, but when I get home I'll hook up the FirmTek to my MBP via USB 2.0 and report back. My guess is that the 840 Pro will saturate the bus and unlike USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt transfers that tend to go up and down a bit, it will just go to some number and sit there.
 
thedeske said:
I've been waiting to see some of these out in the hands of users. Looking forward to your thoughts.
It would be interesting to hear about a 1TB Travelstar or perhaps a Scorpio Black in this case.
If the SSD speeds are as posted, a 7200rpm HD might look good as well.
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Hello all...

I would be very interested to also know how the FirmTek miniSwap performs with a decent 7200 rpm HDD. FirmTek were unable to provide me with any information in relation to this when I emailed them. However I still ordered one and it should be with me tomorrow.

I was considering a Samsung 840 Pro SSD to use externally - to supplement my internal SSD drive running OSX. I wish to use the external drive purely for audio recording/samples, so it may be the better option to get a decent HDD to use inside a miniSwap U3.

Any ideas or info would be helpful.
 
.Russ. said:
Hello all...

I would be very interested to also know how the FirmTek miniSwap performs with a decent 7200 rpm HDD. FirmTek were unable to provide me with any information in relation to this when I emailed them. However I still ordered one and it should be with me tomorrow.

I was considering a Samsung 840 Pro SSD to use externally - to supplement my internal SSD drive running OSX. I wish to use the external drive purely for audio recording/samples, so it may be the better option to get a decent HDD to use inside a miniSwap U3.

Any ideas or info would be helpful.
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It gets interesting these days with SSD prices finally coming down to .50 a gig, but there's still a strong argument for HD IF it's fast enough for the work.
 
thedeske said:
It gets interesting these days with SSD prices finally coming down to .50 a gig, but there's still a strong argument for HD IF it's fast enough for the work.
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Yes agreed.

As I am building a project audio studio, one of the issues I want to avoid is excess noise/vibrations that may eminate from a HDD - obviously SSD is the clear winner here.

I am just wondering whether the constant re-writing of data involved in recording audio from a DAW (logic, cubase etc) to a Samsung 840 Pro SSD could cause future issues to the device?!

Would still like to see performance data for a decent fast quiet HDD in the FirmTek MiniSwap U3.
 
.Russ. said:
Would still like to see performance data for a decent fast quiet HDD in the FirmTek MiniSwap U3.
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My guess is that it will match fast internal HDD speeds of ~100MB/sec. but I'll test the drive that came with the Buffalo MiniStation in the miniSwap when I get home from work in about 5 hours.
 
I tested the FirmTek two more times based on requests:
1) Install a reasonably fast HDD into the enclosure and test it.
I installed the 500GB HDD that came in the MiniStation Thunderbolt enclosure into the FirmTek miniSwap with USB 3.0 interface. I then ran Blackmagic Disk Speed Test and the result was close to what I expected... 101MB/sec write and 107MB/sec read speeds that were repeatable and consistent. CPU burden was a bit higher than the SSD at ~3.5% average and ~4.5% peak, again by eyeball using Activity Monitor.

The drive that came in the MiniStation Thunderbolt is a Samsung/Seagate Spinpoint ST500LM012, not particularly fast, but a decent performer for a laptop drive.

2) Run it with the SSD on USB 2.0
Not surprisingly, this is really a waste of money. The write speed was 35MB/sec and the read speed was 37MB/sec. I then swapped out the SSD and installed the ST500LM012 and the results were exactly the same, showing that the USB 2.0 interface itself is a problem. It can't even keep up with a decently quick HDD, much less one of the fastest SSDs available.
 
Nuke61 said:
I tested the FirmTek two more times based on requests:
1) Install a reasonably fast HDD into the enclosure and test it.
I installed the 500GB HDD that came in the MiniStation Thunderbolt enclosure into the FirmTek miniSwap with USB 3.0 interface. I then ran Blackmagic Disk Speed Test and the result was close to what I expected... 101MB/sec write and 107MB/sec read speeds that were repeatable and consistent. CPU burden was a bit higher than the SSD at ~3.5% average and ~4.5% peak, again by eyeball using Activity Monitor.

The drive that came in the MiniStation Thunderbolt is a Samsung/Seagate Spinpoint ST500LM012, not particularly fast, but a decent performer for a laptop drive.

2) Run it with the SSD on USB 2.0
Not surprisingly, this is really a waste of money. The write speed was 35MB/sec and the read speed was 37MB/sec. I then swapped out the SSD and installed the ST500LM012 and the results were exactly the same, showing that the USB 2.0 interface itself is a problem. It can't even keep up with a decently quick HDD, much less one of the fastest SSDs available.
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For reference, I just ran a test on a Samsung 1TB 5400rpm 2.5" in a generic USB 3.0 enclosure, and got 110MB/s read and the same, - 110MB/s write in BlackMagic. So the FirmTek really comes into play only with SSDs.
 
Nuke61 & williamG...

Many thanks for taking the time and effort in testing HDD's - I really appreciate it. ;)

I will probably need to create a new post (I don't want to hijack this thread) but I am wondering whether anyone has any thoughts on my previous post in relation to using an SSD externally in a FirmTek MiniSwap U3 and if there are any (if at all) issues in using this combination as an audio recording drive for use within a DAW?
 
.Russ. said:
I am just wondering whether the constant re-writing of data involved in recording audio from a DAW (logic, cubase etc) to a Samsung 840 Pro SSD could cause future issues to the device?!
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Constant writes and re-writes, IMO, really drops an external USB 3.0 enclosure from consideration. The reason is that, AFAIK, there aren't any USB 3.0 enclosures that support the TRIM command, and TRIM is what will keep the 840 Pro running at peak speed even with lots of re-writes. However, Thunderbolt enclosures DO support TRIM. The Buffalo MiniStation is a good selection in that regard.

TRIM wiki
 
Nuke61 said:
Constant writes and re-writes, IMO, really drops an external USB 3.0 enclosure from consideration. The reason is that, AFAIK, there aren't any USB 3.0 enclosures that support the TRIM command, and TRIM is what will keep the 840 Pro running at peak speed even with lots of re-writes. However, Thunderbolt enclosures DO support TRIM. The Buffalo MiniStation is a good selection in that regard.

TRIM wiki
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Ok I see. So perhaps it's worth going for a decent quiet HDD in the MiniSwap for audio DAW use as opposed to an SSD. I almost got a Seagate Momentus 750gb hybrid drive to use externally - it was recommended to me over a WD VelociRaptor as it was suggested to be a less noisy option with decent performance. But there are some that suggest these hybrid drives come with their own issues.

Any thoughts on options for a decent HDD drive to use in the MiniSwap?
 
.Russ. said:
Any thoughts on options for a decent HDD drive to use in the MiniSwap?
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No idea, I have a Fusion drive in my iMac and an SSD in my MBP, with a few external SSDs. All the HDDs are in my Netgear and Synology NAS boxes that sit in a wiring closet.
 
Last edited:
Interesting

I was actually in the market of buying a bus-powered enclosure, and I prefer thunderbolt over usb 3.0. However I have yet to see a thunderbolt powered enclosure that supports raid-0 for performance.

I think that's one of the selling point for miniswap is that you can pair a hard disk to raid-0 and get twice the performance. I am suprised no one has mentioned it.
 
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