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First Customer Receives Psystar Mac Clone

fastlanephil said:
I'm speculating that Apple is monitoring the situation and as yet hasn't concluded that Psystar is enough of a threat to Apple's bottom line.

I mean who but a few geeks and the curious(Macworld, ect.) would actually spend money on something as half baked as the Psystar Open Computer.

These Psystar jokers probably have little or no visible assets to attach so why bother going to court.

If someone such as Dell tried this(Michael developed a brain tumor or something) of course Apple would be in court in a nano second.

That's my take on it.

I'm no Apple fan boy and for a serious hobbyist creating music an upgradable mini tower Mac has been on my wish list for some time but I guess Apple has other plans.

The Psystar solution looks like just a cruel joke to me.
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Great answer - I was wondering also why Apple hasn't done anything.

They may do something if more and more system builders jump on the bandwagon. Doubtful, though - I don't think most want to deal with it. Most people that do this sort of thing build their own machines anyways.

I'm Spring cleaning and getting ready to get rid of some old Mac clones. I'm thinking to myself - who wants to use a Mac designed like a PC anyways?
 
What does designed like a Mac mean? If it means practical and built like a brick....uh, outhouse while incorporating style and innovation, I'll all for it. If it means the frail form over function trendy things that Jobs and Ive put out now, I'll take one that looks like a PC.
 
Krevnik said:
There is one key similarity... they are both EULAs. The GPL is a license (hence GNU Public License), to the end-user, in which the end user agrees to a set of conditions.

Now, you can argue that the conditions in the EULA make one EULA more valid than another, but if EULAs as a whole are invalid, the GPL does follow. Which is a really crappy double-edged sword if you think about it.

I never claimed that Apple's EULA is /as valid/ as the GPL, but rather if you attack the validity of all EULAs, you attack the validity of other less-restrictive EULAs as well. ;)
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The problem with Apple's EULA is not what it says yo can or can't do. The problem is that it is a contract. Contracts are only valid if both parties agree. And you can't realistically decline the Apple EULA. (Just try and return your opend copy of Leapard for a refund saying that you declided the EULA.)

GPL on the other hand ONLY gives you rights that you would not have had and only get if you accept. So you can decline the GPL and loose nothing. If you decline the Apple EULA you have lost whatever you paid for the software. (Read the GPL. You can still use the software even if you disagree with the GPL, If you agree with the GPL then you gain the right to make copies and distribute those copies but even GPL hates get to use their copy as they see fit.)

Apple could solve this problem ifthey promised to refund your money prompty at place of purchace if you declined to accept the EULA. Only then, when you had the option to decline does "accept" have meaning
 
macrumorino said:
Apple has never made anything other than PCs. Ever. The fact that you would still carry this obvious, transparent, shallow malapropism more than two decades after its misconception is... disappointing.
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The simple problem with your rant, is that most 'computer users' from BOTH camps (Windows and Mac), and come to accept the term PC to refer to a Windows based system, to avoid confusion between the two systems.

When a term is used incorrectly for long enough, the term is then assumed to reference the 'incorrect' item... and therefore is no longer incorrect.

We could get into the semantics of word history for the rest of our natural lives (I, personally, love to 'understand' where we get our idioms)... but the fact of the matter is that the term 'PC' has become an industry standard for 'Windows based systems' (as opposed to a mac, or Linux based machine). Hence, his use of the term was correct.
 
ChrisA said:
The problem with Apple's EULA is not what it says yo can or can't do. The problem is that it is a contract. Contracts are only valid if both parties agree. And you can't realistically decline the Apple EULA. (Just try and return your opend copy of Leapard for a refund saying that you declided the EULA.)
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Seriously, if Apple refuses to refund if you decline the EULA, then it isn't an enforceable as a contract (for the exact reasons you state, it isn't voluntary). The legal ramifications for Apple if someone had the balls to take them to court over it would be huge.

But that doesn't invalidate EULAs as a whole, and thus doesn't apply to the GPL. ;)

But there have been a couple people making claims that shrinkwrap EULAs in general are invalid, while the GPL itself is a shrinkwrap EULA. A very permissive one, but it is a shrinkwrap EULA.

You say Apple's EULA doesn't meet the requirements of contract law (voluntary entrance), but that just invalidates a class of EULAs. It doesn't invalidate the concept of the EULA like some have claimed.
 
macwall said:
EULAs are completely unenforceable anyways. There's no way you can sign away your rights that are guaranteed by law.
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No you can't, but the right needs to be guaranteed by law to be protected in the first place. Contract law varies from state to state in the US, and how a contract with invalid/illegal clauses are handled.

In some states, accidentally entering into a contract with clauses found to be illegal will only strike the offending clause, not the contract as a whole.

As someone else brought up, the real crux is voluntary entry.
 
European EULA

I've searched Apple's site with no luck and Google didn't help either.

I'm looking for Apple's OSX EULA that applies to the EU countries. I could find translated versions of the US version. Is the translated US version what Apple uses for their EULA in say Germany?

Paragraph 12 of the EULA calls for California law to apply (and this is in the Spanish, Polish, and German language versions). Does Apple expect to solve a dispute with a German user living in Germany in the Californian or German courts?

Thanks!
 
JU1CYFRU1T said:
The simple problem with your rant, is that most 'computer users' from BOTH camps (Windows and Mac), and come to accept the term PC to refer to a Windows based system, to avoid confusion between the two systems.
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"Both camps"? And, pray tell, what camp do you put people who see that an Apple computer is just as much a "PC" as anything else?

Because that is literally what the guy was objecting to--that there could be a "PC" design, as opposed to an "Apple" design.

It is pretty ignorant to assume such homogeneity in the non-Apple universe.

The dude asserts these things with such vehemence, like he knows what he's talking about... but he doesn't.
 
macrumorino said:
"Both camps"? And, pray tell, what camp do you put people who see that an Apple computer is just as much a "PC" as anything else?

Because that is literally what the guy was objecting to--that there could be a "PC" design, as opposed to an "Apple" design.

It is pretty ignorant to assume such homogeneity in the non-Apple universe.

The dude asserts these things with such vehemence, like he knows what he's talking about... but he doesn't.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that your logic of the situation is or is not wrong... but keep in mind that even when you go into an apple store (we're lucky enough to have 3 in San Diego County)... even the Apple employees make the distinction between the two systems as 'Mac' and 'PC'.

I will go back and read the original post... but what I read the first time, is that he doesn't want a Mac that looks like a PC (IMO, that meant; ugly, unrefined, cheap, etc...). I'll go back and read again... and edit my post if I feel like what I read was wrong.

About the EULA,
I live in California... and there is a section in contract law that states that if you signed a contract, being lead to believe one thing... and it turns out that that was false... the contract is nullified.

That is why people are still able to sue Disney, even though on the back of the ticket it specifically states that they are not liable. California law is VERY wacky, because of Hollywood mostly...


*EDIT* I was refering to THIS post, in my 'PC' comment.
gkarris said:
I'm thinking to myself - who wants to use a Mac designed like a PC anyways?
Click to expand...

I am not saying that a Mac is not a personal computer... in fact, I think it's a much BETTER personal Computer (or I wouldn't have bought an MBP)... I'm saying that the industry has come to accpet a distiction between the two as 'Mac' vs 'PC'. A PERFECT example?... "Hello, I'm a Mac" "...and I'm a PC". It has nothing to do with 'which is better'... it's about being able to distinguish between the two easily.
 
According to slashdot.org, Psystar is now shipping their own service packs! :D

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/08/05/20/177244.shtml

Preedit writes
"Not only is Mac clone maker Psystar continuing to defy Apple's ban on third-party Leopard installations, it's supporting the hardware with updates. Psystar Mac clones shipped as of Monday will include a 'service pack' that features fixes for a range of problems, some of them inherent in Apple's own software, according to InformationWeek. The fixes address a range of troubles, from glitches in Apple's Time Machine backup feature to quirks in the Keyboard Viewer and Character Palette entries in Leopard's system preferences menu. There's also support for the latest version of Java and other updates. According to the story, by offering a full menu of support, Psystar appears to be daring Apple to attempt to enforce provisions in the Leopard license agreement that forbid third-party installations and sales."
 
It's a great marketing exercise - offer the customer the choice of any operating system for a machine and see what they choose. But a truly 'open' PC would run all of the operating systems at once.

I'll stick with Apple and VMWare Fusion, thanks very much.
 
Ibm

fastlanephil said:
I mean who but a few geeks and the curious(Macworld, ect.) would actually spend money on something as half baked as the Psystar Open Computer.

These Psystar jokers probably have little or no visible assets to attach so why bother going to court.

The Psystar solution looks like just a cruel joke to me.
Click to expand...

er..
you sound like the IBM board talking about Microsoft way back when they where on top of things.
or maybe you sound like the Microsoft board, dissin the the jobs mob way back when they where worthless geeks......

shall I go on?
I mean every fish has to grow.Give them a break and stop talking like a ****, a little competition at all levels is always a good thing, unlike a one way love affair with a corporation.
 
Looks like Psystar has updated the Open Computer case:

http://www.informationweek.com/news...ml?articleID=208400659&subSection=All+Stories

In an e-mail to customers Wednesday, the company noted that its Mac clones are now shipping on an improved metal chassis. Psystar claims its new V2 box is "virtually silent," is of a "sturdier steel construction," and is "tool-less to boot!"
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Psystar_Open_Computer.jpg
 
Excellent. I might just end up getting that next "Mac" now instead of a few years from now. I can't justify a $2400+ Mac right now (I refuse to get a crappy iMac; I need a tower with expansion), but I could do $1000 or so and move this other PC I bought last November into my arcade room as a Mame cabinet and kiosk station. Like I've said elsewhere, Apple is LOSING sales because of their missing mid-range tower, not just cannibalizing MacPro sales. Most consumers don't need and won't buy a $2400+ tower, but they WOULD buy an $800-1200 one and many of us would have bought a Mac tower instead of a PC for a 2nd computer (because we can now run boot camp and/or Parallels/Fusion) if only one existed. Apple needs to stop looking SMALL like in the '90s and start thinking BIG and moving towards market domination not just filling some niche that only likes computers that have cases that LOOK like some new-age art instead of a like a computer. SOME of us DON'T CARE about the LOOKS aspect, but care about FUNCTIONALITY and MACOSX. Imagine that. A computer that is about COMPUTING instead of interior decorating.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
I need a tower with expansion
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, and don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering why you need the expandability? What can it do that an iMac can't, that you actually will do?

jW
 
Mal said:
Just out of curiosity, and don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering why you need the expandability? What can it do that an iMac can't, that you actually will do?

jW
Click to expand...

For me (and I have the afore mentioned iMac):

-Additional hard drives for boot camp and backup
-Optical drive that is not molasses slow, can actually read camcorder DVDs, and offers a upgrade path to blu-ray
-PCI-E TV tuner
-Be able to do the first three without the use of expensive, unreliable, and unsightly external drives.
-Quad core option
-Be able to choose the display I want
-Be able to choose the graphics options I want
-Extra USB and firewire ports that are easy to access (as opposed to turning the computer as I have to do with the iMac)
-Be able to do this ad traditional PowerMac price points.

I've said this before, the iMac is a wonderful machine, but it is designed for simplicity and does not fit the needs of everyone. There are many users with above average needs and wants that don't rise to the level of a $2300+ professional workstation. In other words, the people that used to Make up Apple's base before they went after the trendy teenager types.
 
Ok, sounds reasonable, though of course keep in mind that you're far from a traditional user. While Apple may eventually decide to cater to your needs, don't expect it anytime soon. They probably don't really see it as a viable market, or at least not one worth putting much time and effort into.

jW
 
Mal said:
Ok, sounds reasonable, though of course keep in mind that you're far from a traditional user.
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Yes I am and that's why I originally went with Apple. They were the machine of the above average user. Now they focus on a more trendy, more affluent version of the traditional low to middle end segment that dell and HP operate in.
 
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