First Impressions of Steam for Mac Including Portal and Team Fortress 2

[0098386]

Happy to hear the beta looks promising. Sad to hear how people are already saying Steam for Mac is useless and everyone should just use BootCamp. Can't you just be happy a major developer and publisher is taking the Mac platform seriously?

Oh no it's a very good step. But it sounds like (once again) if you want a game to perform its best then use Bootcamp. As an x1600 and 9400M owner (and someone who has 120 games on Steam and still needs Windows regardless) I'll be sticking to Windows Steam.

This whole thing is going to be excellent for the Mac world though. Oh my yes.

 

[Cougarcat]

It's a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Apple/ATI/Nvidia have very little motivation to improve on gaming performance because there are no games, and game companies have little motivation because of the poor game support in OS X. Hopefully with Valve and Blizzard releasing major new titles this year, we will see some movement in the game support front.

 

[jeanlain]

The OGL drivers aren't terrible, per se. Apple's put quite a bit of work into optimizing them.

The problem is that Apple optimized them to be used a certain way, and for how they get used in the OS itself (since OGL is driving the entire UX for OS X, and has for years). The quick and low-impact design of the UX code comes a bit at the expense of game performance. Low-level design of the OS itself also makes it difficult for a game to monopolize system resources on OS X, which does impact performance.

That makes sense. But consider that in Leopard Apple has implemented multithreaded openGL, which can greatly benefit games, and mostly for free. Basically, the openGL code is offloaded to another thread, making better use of the CPU power of multicore Macs. I'm not sure openGL under windows has this (but directX may behave similarly), and whether Source games on OS X are taking advantage of it. They should since Valve seem to have trouble with multicore support (it is experimental in TF2, and only truly implemented in L4D).
For more info: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3500392850204658182#

 

[louis Fashion]

You say hello, I say good bye

Good bye boot camp. You are history.

 

[Stridder44]

9400m can't even do high on a source game. I hope the 310m in the new macbooks does better.

I have no doubt that will change after a few patches. Give Valve some time; both Steam and the games are new to OS X. Their crew is constantly learning about the platform and their games. Things can only improve from here. Big props to Valve.

 

[VoR]

I agree but all I'm saying is that with the same hardware OSX has a tendency of being more efficient than Windows, but what we're seing in this beta is the reverse with the games being slightly slower than their Windows counterparts. I'm so sceptical because over the years I have seen horribly Game ports from Win to Mac that had worse performance and a the same time looked worse. And from my profession I know OSX is a very fast, efficient OS. Especially SL with it's 1 GB Ram System requirement.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_windows_part3&num=1

windows>ubuntu>osx

 

[rbarris]

That makes sense. But consider that in Leopard Apple has implemented multithreaded openGL, which can greatly benefit games, and mostly for free. Basically, the openGL code is offloaded to another thread, making better use of the CPU power of multicore Macs.

On the topic of improvement, I've been doing this kind of thing for a while, and from my POV there is a lot of improvement in 10.6.3 compared to 10.6.0, or 10.5.8, or 10.5.3, or 10.4.11. That's the past.

MT-GL is on by default in the Mac Source games. We report that as "multicore rendering enabled" in the GUI. That's the present.

There is more stuff we want to be sure - but to claim that there hasn't been any improvement or that anyone is sitting on fixes or waiting for some event to jolt Apple/ATI/NVIDIA into working on relevant issues, just isn't true.

So just to make a general point, we'll hit a certain performance level on each class of system at release, and then (as has been the case a number of times in past projects I worked on) we will crank it up higher, sometimes as we make discoveries on our own code, in some cases when we get requested improvements to ship in software updates. There's one of those requests queued up right now and it's a doozy in terms of getting us more FPS. That's the future.

 

[Revelation78]

If you put the link in manually, then it's definitely not the Mac files. Not the binary, at least. Mac games will show up in the list automatically.

Then tell me how did the game install? There are plenty of binary files, what should I look for in particular?

 

[juulie]

Why would it get a reasonable price? If it performs well, it will be worth the money and people will pay accordingly. You say it will never never exist? You mean to tell me a gaming macbook would never exist just because that's what your assumed interpretation of someone elses comment is?

Awesome logic.

Talking about logic:

Why would anyone buy an apple gaming laptop with a ridiculous high price if he could get the same spec on windows laptop for less then half the price, plus it could play every pc game there is....

 

[nagromme]

Talking about logic:

Why would anyone buy an apple gaming laptop with a ridiculous high price if he could get the same spec on windows laptop for less then half the price, plus it could play every pc game there is....

a) Because it does more than just games

and

b) Because managing your OS and security even for games is still easier in OS X

also

c) Apple laptops don’t cost more than typical name-brand PC laptops of similar specs (people who claim they do are cherry-picking certain specs and ignoring others—but they’d never do that when comparing a Dell and an HP for instance)

 

[madmax_2069]

What is this valve thing? Are there any free games, or is it basically like an online store where you have to buy all the games? If thats the case ill just stick with Pirate Bay thank you very much.

There is a little thing called google, i would look into that if i was you.

Good luck with openly stating that you are a pirate.

I vote to ban this troll.

 

[Eminemdrdre00]

I have a 2.66ghz Core 2 Duo iMac with 4gb of RAM and an ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro. Do you think I'll be able to run Counter Strike: Source on high settings with that setup?

 

[birch25]

The value of a game is measured in fun, not specs and stats like FPS. If 60 FPS is the same fun as 75, or if 1600x1050 is the same fun as 1440x900 (which depends on the game—I know detail matters), then the numbers are of interest only outside the game. Many people enjoy specs and bullet points and benchmarks as a hobby—and that’s great. I do too! But not as much as I enjoy games, and I’m able to recognize that they’re separate kinds fun. Not one and the same.

I agree that you don't have to run a game at max settings to make it fun but the options are not just running at 1600x1050 or 1440x900 or 60 or 75 fps. On a year old Macbook, I can play Team Fortress 2 (a 3 year old game, mind you) at a high resolution on high settings at around 40 fps. However, I recently tried playing Splinter Cell Conviction (a modern game) and on the lowest settings at ~640x480 the game gets about 10 fps and is pretty much unplayable. The argument about Mac's not being built to play games does not mean that they can't play early Source engine games but how well they play current releases and they just don't perform as well as well as comparably priced Windows machines.

You have to burn time keeping it patched, running anti-malware, worrying about the next Windows virus (becsuse Mac still has none in the real world) and worst of all: simply keeping yourself educated on security for an insecure (in the real world) OS. Games should be fun. Keeping my Windows machine up to date is not fun. Windows tolerators like to say, “I’ve never had a virus because I’ve had the know-how to stay safe... so far.”

This is just ridiculous. There is no need to ever "keep yourself educated" about the virus/malware situation in the world. Any anti-virus software you choose to run (many people don't run any anymore and more people are fine) will self-update in the background so the user hardly ever notices it's happening. Finally, Windows updates can occur as transparently as you'd like so updates are only as difficult as you choose to make them.

P.S. I'm a huge Mac fan and far prefer it to Windows, but it bugs me when people comment on how much better one platform is than the other when they clearly have not spent any real time with both.

 

[jimmyjoemccrow]

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_windows_part3&num=1

windows>ubuntu>osx

Good find. I wonder if the pattern continues the same way for later cards. Seems likely, since they are all nvidia.

 

[Garrus]

i really hope modern warfare 2 comes to mac too. then i can finally ditch bootcamp.

bring crysis and mass effect too!

 

[nagromme]

This is just ridiculous. There is no need to ever "keep yourself educated" about the virus/malware situation in the world. Any anti-virus software you choose to run (many people don't run any anymore and more people are fine) will self-update in the background so the user hardly ever notices it's happening. Finally, Windows updates can occur as transparently as you'd like so updates are only as difficult as you choose to make them.

P.S. I'm a huge Mac fan and far prefer it to Windows, but it bugs me when people comment on how much better one platform is than the other when they clearly have not spent any real time with both.

YMMV. What you say is NOT universally true. I use Macs and Windows professionally. I have for years, although I stick to Mac as much as possible and use Windows mainly for testing. I use common, brand-name anti-malware software on Windows. And it is NOT transparent and something I “hardly ever notice.” It is a royal pain. My friends have experienced the same pain to a far greater degree, since they’re less tech-savvy than I. And for that matter, some who are MORE savvy than I (about Windows) have too, by bad luck.

I had to educate myself about which anti-malware to choose. Then I had to educate myself about the free vs. paid options. Then I had to educate myself about the configuration options within the apps I chose (multiple, because no single solution was safe enough according to my research). Then I’ve had to face changes to those apps and their options over time. And I’ve had to face them fighting with each other. And bogging down my computer and my DSL whenever I fire up Windows, as they endlessly update things the Mac doesn’t have to face. And I have to dismiss multiple cryptic dialog boxes along the way. Do I answer every one in the safe, secure way, or do I occasionally click wrong? I think I’m always right. I think....

And if you say my Windows problems are because I don’t know enough to make these systems easier... you’re right. I spent a certain amount of time researching and configuring, and then enough is enough.

You think you’re keeping Windows safe without knowing or doing anything, but in fact you did have to learn a lot along the way. It’s second-nature to you now (but things can change, and then you’ll have to learn the changes). Maybe it even seems downright simple to you in comparison to ages past when Windows was even worse. But it’s not second-nature to everyone. And it’s not FUN, which is, after all, what I want from gaming

I’m glad Windows has been so effortless for you, and I don’t at all disbelieve what you’re saying. But your experience is not everyone’s. I’ve lived the nightmare, and seen many others do so, and seen tons of non-savvy Mac users have no such problems. In fact the single-most tech-savvy person I know, a hard-core Windows programmer by trade, just lost a bunch of past work to a maliciously-spreading virus. I don’t know what security mistake he made, and I don’t know if he does either! But my contention that the ease of administering security on a Mac is a platform advantage is not ridiculous.

 

[NaMMeR]

Talking about logic:

Why would anyone buy an apple gaming laptop with a ridiculous high price if he could get the same spec on windows laptop for less then half the price, plus it could play every pc game there is....

Because I run OS X, I got sick of windows. So at any price, a gaming macbook has my wallet unfolding. The only thing I didnt spring for was the 8GB of ram for my macbook, other than that, I've got 17" MBP 3.06 GHz 500GB 7200 RPM for storing my music, web browsing, occasional photo editing.

Don't try and tell me what I wouldn't buy.

$700 train horn in my car.
$320 Flashlight that could burn an ignorant persons face off.

Just because you can't justify buying a gaming macbook, doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of others can't either. We are not you.

 

[bchreng]

I have no doubt that will change after a few patches. Give Valve some time; both Steam and the games are new to OS X. Their crew is constantly learning about the platform and their games. Things can only improve from here. Big props to Valve.

The 9400m isn't all that great a GPU for games. There's some optimization left to do, yes, but don't expect any miracles. I expect to be running steam games at low-to-medium detail on my 2.0ghz, 9400m, white macbook.

 

[reticulate]

A couple of things:

1) These updates on how the client performs are much appreciated. I will definitely be downloading when it's available, and finally freeing up some space by removing my boot camp partition.

2) Valve didn't exactly 'port' the game to OpenGL. The Source engine is by design modular (which is why they're still using it even though HL2 has been out for practically an age in gaming terms) and that includes the render path. All Valve really had to do was replace the render module with one coded using OpenGL calls rather than DirectX. A lot of that work was apparently already done, just not available for public consumption.

3) Steam Play is a totally awesome concept and I really hope to see it move beyond just Valve+indies. Firaxis titles would be a great example - I would love to get my Civ on regardless of platform. What I hope this motivates developers to do is break out of the DirectX-only mould by moving towards a modular render path concept as with Source. Studios are already using OpenGL on the PS3, so the benefits are appreciable not just from a Mac perspective.

 

[3NV7]

This is just ridiculous. There is no need to ever "keep yourself educated" about the virus/malware situation in the world. Any anti-virus software you choose to run (many people don't run any anymore and more people are fine) will self-update in the background so the user hardly ever notices it's happening. Finally, Windows updates can occur as transparently as you'd like so updates are only as difficult as you choose to make them.

Indeed. These old, outdated memes need to be discarded.

 

[Cougarcat]

Back on topic...it looks like the only Source game tomorrow will be Portal. New ones will be released every Wednesday. Source.

 

[jimmyjoemccrow]

Because I run OS X, I got sick of windows. So at any price, a gaming macbook has my wallet unfolding. The only thing I didnt spring for was the 8GB of ram for my macbook, other than that, I've got 17" MBP 3.06 GHz 500GB 7200 RPM for storing my music, web browsing, occasional photo editing.

Don't try and tell me what I wouldn't buy.

$700 train horn in my car.
$320 Flashlight that could burn an ignorant persons face off.

Just because you can't justify buying a gaming macbook, doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of others can't either. We are not you.

Your prejudice towards Windows costs you a lot of money and restricts your range of games. You also lose out in terms of hardware.

 

[LagunaSol]

This is just ridiculous. There is no need to ever "keep yourself educated" about the virus/malware situation in the world. Any anti-virus software you choose to run (many people don't run any anymore and more people are fine) will self-update in the background so the user hardly ever notices it's happening.

Indeed. These old, outdated memes need to be discarded.

I know, totally. I wish people would realize how ignorant they are. Stupid anti-Windows propaganda. Anti-virus protection on PCs is totally transparent and painless. It just updates itself automatically, no big deal. Then it throws your PC into an endless reboot cycle you can't escape from. Oh, wait, what???

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2362926,00.asp

 

[Dragonforce]

Something official:

Press Release - Valve
Roll Out Begins Weds, May 12

May 11, 2010 - Valve announced that Steam will launch on the Mac platform this Wednesday, May 12.

On subsequent Wednesdays, additional collections of Mac titles will become available, each designed to highlight specific functionalities of Steam on the Mac.

The first collection of Mac titles will demonstrate "Steam Play," which allows customers to purchase a game once and play it on all Steam supported platforms. Gamers who have previously purchased games on Steam will find them available in their account on the Mac as they are released.

Portal, in addition to supporting Steam Play, will be the first of Valve's Source engine based games available on the Mac. Native OS/X support for the Source engine is also available immediately to licensees for use in their games.

Among the initial titles available on Wednesday will be Runic Games' critically acclaimed Torchlight. "We're very excited to be bringing Torchlight to the Mac," said Max Schaefer, co-founder of Runic Games. "Having Steam for the Mac solves so many problems for us as a developer. We look forward to our future games coming out on the Mac as well."

In addition to bringing the online functionality of Steam to the Mac, Valve will also make its Steamworks suite of publishing and development tools available on the Mac platform. These include product key authentication, copy protection, auto-updating, social networking, matchmaking, anti-cheat technology, and more. The features and services available in Steamworks are offered free of charge and may be used for both electronic and tangible versions of games.

For more information on Steam, please visit www.steamgames.com.

 

[gregorypierce]

Studios are already using OpenGL on the PS3, so the benefits are appreciable not just from a Mac perspective.

While I agree with you in theory - nobody is using OpenGL to any large extent on the PS3 in practice due to performance as GL is not optimized around the multi-core EE architecture of the PS3.