First in-depth test of iTunes 4K Dolby Vision vs 4K UHD Blu-Ray

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Very interesting review. Bear in mind that the reviewer is using, what is probably regarded as being the best performing 4K Dolby Vision Blu-Ray player - Oppo 203. (Certainly, Opposes along with LG are the only ones offering DV).
TVs used - LG OLED B7

Brilliant review and the ATV did really well. The UI interface looked beautiful compared to a 4K bluRay player. Don't forget this comparison is a £630 player Vs £199 Apple TV 4K.
My only big worry is, if I owned a £3K or £5K OLED TV, then surely, I would want the ultimate picture performance which of course comes from the disc. Sound quality no comparison of course.
However, as iTunes updates its files frequently, and as broadband becomes super fast and enters 5G etc, will we see bitrates to match UHD BluRay at 50-100mbps of course using a Ethernet connection? (Really wouldn't want to rely on WiFi for that!!!).

 

[andeify]

Pretty good video, the LG B7 and C7 have been reduced to £1800 in Currys. But you would probably want to match that with the Onkyo HT-S7805 at £800 to get Dolby Atmos...

 

[Donfor39]

This review proves Apple 4k tv is ideal for home use movie purchases.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

This review proves Apple 4k tv is ideal for home use movie purchases.

Yes! I've got to admit that's it's a pretty perfect review from a very talented reviewer! Certainly, sat 12 feet away from the TV like we were last night watching a film, you really would not notice any picture difference. AND thats a ATV comparing very very well to a £630 4K BluRay player which is regarded as the best 4K BluRay player on the market for picture quality.
Notice what he said at the end of the video about leaving it in 60fps and letting the LG OLED compensate for that!

 

[Absrnd]

I shows that the iTunes 4K movies are like the MP3 of music, for average use most won't see the difference,
they have smaller screens and sit too far away to even see the 4K.

I do find it odd that he compares freeze frames with each other, that is in my mind a really bad way to do it

luckily the iTunes price is also good for a low bitrate 4K movie, but it still does not compare to the high bitrate of the 4K UHD Bluray disks

 

[mmm1345]

The problem with most of the UHD Players I've used is the ones I've tested have been buggy and depending on the disk can get so loud that you can't watch the discs. I've tried Samsung, LG and Sony players. I think for most people the ATV 4K is a good compromise for the ease, convenience and price of 4k/HDR.

 

[George Dawes]

the atv4k comes off as amazing vfm imo

and soooo much more convenient..

imagine taking your 400 disc 4k / hd bluray collection to your pal's house - in 1 pocket !!!!

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I shows that the iTunes 4K movies are like the MP3 of music, for average use most won't see the difference,
they have smaller screens and sit too far away to even see the 4K.

I do find it odd that he compares freeze frames with each other, that is in my mind a really bad way to do it

luckily the iTunes price is also good for a low bitrate 4K movie, but it still does not compare to the high bitrate of the 4K UHD Bluray disks

I disagree, it's definitely better than 'average use'. This was being tested on a 65" OLED and it still looked great. I don't know anybody with a 65" TV. Maybe, they are more popular in the USA were people are known to spend more time watching the TV compared to Europe or Australia. (I read that on average, some people in the USA spend 8 hours a day watching the TV, but I hope that's incorrect as that really shocked and upset me - TV is OK in small dosages). Even the reviewer who is a perfectionist was impressed, secondly, on a 55" or 43" would you honestly see the difference between the two sat 6 or 12 feet away and most importantly, when sat with great friends, eating, laughing and enjoy the film, who what deliberately look for slight compression of the film??? I get the impression that the person who constantly finds fault with it is probably sat by themselves over analysing something which, let's be truly truly honest, is not a good thing!
[doublepost=1508688050][/doublepost]

the atv4k comes off as amazing vfm imo

and soooo much more convenient..

imagine taking your 400 disc 4k / hd bluray collection to your pal's house - in 1 pocket !!!!

I totally agree. Both BluRay/DVD and ATV compliment each other well. And hopefully ATV will get better over the next year. Got to say, this windy weather here in the UK today is making my WiFi/Internet very unstable.
[doublepost=1508688134][/doublepost]

The problem with most of the UHD Players I've used is the ones I've tested have been buggy and depending on the disk can get so loud that you can't watch the discs. I've tried Samsung, LG and Sony players. I think for most people the ATV 4K is a good compromise for the ease, convenience and price of 4k/HDR.

It's true - even the reviewer was comparing the Oppo and Panasonic and was finding picture faults and criticising. It was then that I thought, to heck with that - I'm done!!!

 

[archer75]

The problem with most of the UHD Players I've used is the ones I've tested have been buggy and depending on the disk can get so loud that you can't watch the discs. I've tried Samsung, LG and Sony players. I think for most people the ATV 4K is a good compromise for the ease, convenience and price of 4k/HDR.

Try the oppo. It's one of the best you can get. And they update it often so as individual disc issues arise they get patched quickly.

And that way you don't have to worry about your 4k movie suddenly becoming HD or disappearing all together like on the atv.

 

[cynics]

This review proves Apple 4k tv is ideal for home use movie purchases.

I wouldn't say "ideal" however its VERY good especially considerings its "all in one" solution.

The purist will not (and likely never will) be 100% satisfied especially with an "all in one" solution like an AppleTV. Not only with video quality but with sound as well.

With time I think we'll see firmware updates to smooth out some of the obvious hiccups and once that happens the purist will once again realize that an all in one solution like the ATV4k will never be quite as good as dedicated devices purpose built for specific task.

 

[Absrnd]

I disagree, it's definitely better than 'average use'. This was being tested on a 65" OLED and it still looked great. I don't know anybody with a 65" TV. Maybe, they are more popular in the USA were people are known to spend more time watching the TV compared to Europe or Australia. (I read that on average, some people in the USA spend 8 hours a day watching the TV, but I hope that's incorrect as that really shocked and upset me - TV is OK in small dosages). Even the reviewer who is a perfectionist was impressed, secondly, on a 55" or 43" would you honestly see the difference between the two sat 6 or 12 feet away and most importantly, when sat with great friends, eating, laughing and enjoy the film, who what deliberately look for slight compression of the film??? I get the impression that the person who constantly finds fault with it is probably sat by themselves over analysing something which, let's be truly truly honest, is not a good thing!

For the "average viewer", with a 55" or smaller TV, it will look good enough, but as he said, you see the difference in bitrate and compression, with artifacts banding and panning stuttering.

Me as a European with a 65" TV , I can see the difference when watching the iTunens 4K and the UHD disk.
I am also impressed by the quality of the iTunes 4K, but, it is what the HD movies should have been for that price.
now the price for the 4K iTunes is good for that quality and lower bitrate.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I wouldn't say "ideal" however its VERY good especially considerings its "all in one" solution.

The purist will not (and likely never will) be 100% satisfied especially with an "all in one" solution like an AppleTV. Not only with video quality but with sound as well.

With time I think we'll see firmware updates to smooth out some of the obvious hiccups and once that happens the purist will once again realize that an all in one solution like the ATV4k will never be quite as good as dedicated devices purpose built for specific task.

Being honest Cynics, a purist will never be happy with Apple TV because they are never happy with anything. They are not happy with the Oppo 203 or Panasonic 4K BluRay, they'll also find fault. Just look at AVForums etc and see the mess on that site. They remind me of the armchair hifi buff of the 1970s. Critiquing rather than listening to the music and enjoying the moment!
To me, if you love the film, chances are, you won't look for artefacts in the blue sky Panning judder is a real pain though!
[doublepost=1508708666][/doublepost]

For the "average viewer", with a 55" or smaller TV, it will look good enough, but as he said, you see the difference in bitrate and compression, with artifacts banding and panning stuttering.

Me as a European with a 65" TV , I can see the difference when watching the iTunens 4K and the UHD disk.
I am also impressed by the quality of the iTunes 4K, but, it is what the HD movies should have been for that price.
now the price for the 4K iTunes is good for that quality and lower bitrate.

Being honest Absrnd, i'm not convinced that the 'average viewer' is an Apple customer or has an Apple TV and rents/buys from iTunes. They'd be more likely to simply download from a pirate bay site for free or buy the DVD which for some crazy reason, has become popular at local upmarket Waitrose supermarkets (they don't sell BluRay only DVDs!!!!!! in 2017). Now try and work that one out as i'm quite baffled!

I guess that you can see a difference on a 65" TV - that is a H UG E size screen and of course, it's going to need a extreme signal in terms of quality simply to look right. 40" for me is too big (I keep saying that i'll have an LG OLED B7 55" but then who I see the size, I get upset and my eyes go for 40" TVs - now if LG would make a 40" OLED i'd be happy

 

[cynics]

Being honest Cynics, a purist will never be happy with Apple TV because they are never happy with anything. They are not happy with the Oppo 203 or Panasonic 4K BluRay, they'll also find fault. Just look at AVForums etc and see the mess on that site. They remind me of the armchair hifi buff of the 1970s. Critiquing rather than listening to the music and enjoying the moment!
To me, if you love the film, chances are, you won't look for artefacts in the blue sky Panning judder is a real pain though!

I agree (and said as much). I'll go as far as saying that a lot of people aren't so much purist as they are people that don't know what they are talking about this is especially true when it comes to audio, specially LPCM but I digress.

However I don't want to nor could I completely discount all the complaints with the ATV4k. To ignore them would mean I wouldn't expect improvement.

Like you I'll often get immersed in the content, at that point visual and audio fidelity "issues" aren't as noticeable. Like the first time I saw movie aspect on a 16:9 TV, I couldn't believe I had to deal with the "black bars" (lol I'm old). However they completely disappear once you are "into" the movie.

Unfortunately that is only valid to a certain point. Panning judder can be enough to pull me out of the immersion of a movie. Thankfully its not something I experience, my KS9000 does a great job with 24hz via 60hz.

 

[andeify]

Yeah when you are concentrating on a film you don’t notice a small amount of artifacting here and there, what is noticeable is motion judder and banding in gradients - they are the real killers.

Bought an ATV 4K today, some of the screensavers are amazing!

 

[Rigby]

For the "average viewer", with a 55" or smaller TV, it will look good enough, but as he said, you see the difference in bitrate and compression, with artifacts banding and panning stuttering.

He specifically says there was no judder since the TV is smart enough to reconstruct the 24 frame/s cadence (like many better TVs). But yes, there will be more compression artifacts in difficult scenes. The question is whether they are obvious enough to bother the viewer.

Me as a European with a 65" TV , I can see the difference when watching the iTunens 4K and the UHD disk.

That usually gets a lot harder if you do a blind test.
[doublepost=1508714877][/doublepost]

I guess that you can see a difference on a 65" TV - that is a H UG E size screen

I actually think that's pretty small since I'm used to watching movies on a projector.

 

[priitv8]

I guess that you can see a difference on a 65" TV - that is a H UG E size screen ...

You can see these differences on any size screen. It only comes down to the viewing distance, because its our eye's angular resolution, that is the limiting factor.
I think UHD screens were claimed to remain viewable up to until distance of screen height (quick look at dimensions of a 65" screen gives: 80cm).
Remember, suggested viewing distance for old-school CRT screens was 2,5 times their diagonal!
In essence, higher res screen allows you to sit up closer to it until individual pixels become visible, thereby enhancing the "immersion" effect. If anybody really does this at home, is completely different matter.

 

[bopajuice]

What some people fail to realize is even if the ATV compares favorably with a Oppo blue ray, it will not do Dolby Master Audio, or any of the other audio formats that are critical to me. Audio quality is just as important as picture quality in my opinion.

 

[priitv8]

Audio quality is just as important as picture quality in my opinion.

It can get more expensive to reach top-quality multi-channel audio than it costs to buy a screen and aTV.
That's why you see so many being content with only a soundbar.
I am looking forward for apple to fulfill their promise of bringing Dolby Atmos to the tvOS platform.
For that device, I do not actually mind, if they deliver it on DD+ only and not TrueHD.
I very much doubt the latter scenario will materialize any time soon.

 

[threesixty360]

I think we are at the last 5% of quality here, both in video and audio. Even I find it hard to believe how good compression and delivery quality has become in such a short space of time. We have 50gb discs being basically mimicked by 5-10gb files and with very few noticeable differences. That is astounding.

The funny thing about people who see / hear all these differences is generally that they are amongst older people who's sensitivity to vision and sound has rolled off anyway! Ok, if you wear glasses your seeing 20/20 mostly so you are probably more critical of something that an average person who cant see that detail, but sound wise, over 40's aren't even hearing the detail!

You get to a point where only huge sound systems and tv's are going resolve the detail that these devices are putting out and most people just dont have those systems. An example for me is that I have a Sony HTX 3 and a SONOS playbase. Yes the Sony plays the DTS and hi-res audio but the SONOS has a better speaker system, better sub sound etc.. and eventually just sounds better and wider, even though it only plays back a compressed dolby digital plus sound track.

It was the hardware not the software that made the most difference.

I think people who just bought an Oppo and maybe have a system with DTS cant etc.. just cant believe that systems like sonos or apple's stuff comes close. Its almost a psychological thing and they are trying to convince themselves that the difference matters.

The only reason why I might still buy discs is that ultimately I cant rely on me always having an internet connection or having access to the web services. Also I cant always say that the films I want or have bought will still be accessible.Especially for independent films. I'm also not sure that the extra's on iTunes movies are the same as on disc or are always available like they are on the disc.

The ideal scenario for me would be that the disc purchase contains the iTunes codes rather than that ultra violet stuff. I dont think all do. But having a physical disc wouldn't be about actually having a better version of a film, rather it would be about just always having the film with me.

 

[Donfor39]

It can get more expensive to reach top-quality multi-channel audio than it costs to buy a screen and aTV.
That's why you see so many being content with only a soundbar.
I am looking forward for apple to fulfill their promise of bringing Dolby Atmos to the tvOS platform.
For that device, I do not actually mind, if they deliver it on DD+ only and not TrueHD.
I very much doubt the latter scenario will materialize any time soon.

DD+ would be excellent from ap4kvtv -that’s what my Skyq is currently using for some broadcats at least.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I think we are at the last 5% of quality here, both in video and audio. Even I find it hard to believe how good compression and delivery quality has become in such a short space of time. We have 50gb discs being basically mimicked by 5-10gb files and with very few noticeable differences. That is astounding.

The funny thing about people who see / hear all these differences is generally that they are amongst older people who's sensitivity to vision and sound has rolled off anyway! Ok, if you wear glasses your seeing 20/20 mostly so you are probably more critical of something that an average person who cant see that detail, but sound wise, over 40's aren't even hearing the detail!

You get to a point where only huge sound systems and tv's are going resolve the detail that these devices are putting out and most people just dont have those systems. An example for me is that I have a Sony HTX 3 and a SONOS playbase. Yes the Sony plays the DTS and hi-res audio but the SONOS has a better speaker system, better sub sound etc.. and eventually just sounds better and wider, even though it only plays back a compressed dolby digital plus sound track.

It was the hardware not the software that made the most difference.

I think people who just bought an Oppo and maybe have a system with DTS cant etc.. just cant believe that systems like sonos or apple's stuff comes close. Its almost a psychological thing and they are trying to convince themselves that the difference matters.

The only reason why I might still buy discs is that ultimately I cant rely on me always having an internet connection or having access to the web services. Also I cant always say that the films I want or have bought will still be accessible.Especially for independent films. I'm also not sure that the extra's on iTunes movies are the same as on disc or are always available like they are on the disc.

The ideal scenario for me would be that the disc purchase contains the iTunes codes rather than that ultra violet stuff. I dont think all do. But having a physical disc wouldn't be about actually having a better version of a film, rather it would be about just always having the film with me.

I totally agree with you about SONOS - hence it's popularity. Great design and like Apple, it works! Audio wise and home cinema, so many young people in the UK and Europe love to live in the urban cities - myself included. We are living in chic, small, open plan apartments and what I can say is, that there's no way that sub woofers and home cinema systems work well in these buildings!
I stayed in a lovely AirBnB beach house apartment in Cyprus last month. I was on the top floor and there a guy on the ground floor who had a home cinema and sadly, the damn thing could be heard throughout the entire building! Every night. Really not nice - hence why many people are either using the TVs built in speakers or a sound bar.

 

[Donfor39]

I totally agree with you about SONOS - hence it's popularity. Great design and like Apple, it works! Audio wise and home cinema, so many young people in the UK and Europe love to live in the urban cities - myself included. We are living in chic, small, open plan apartments and what I can say is, that there's no way that sub woofers and home cinema systems work well in these buildings!
I stayed in a lovely AirBnB beach house apartment in Cyprus last month. I was on the top floor and there a guy on the ground floor who had a home cinema and sadly, the damn thing could be heard throughout the entire building! Every night. Really not nice - hence why many people are either using the TVs built in speakers or a sound bar.

Which is why i Sold Bose air wifi speaker -guilty feeling when I turned up sound.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Which is why i Sold Bose air wifi speaker -guilty feeling when I turned up sound.

Haha ow damn! The town house that I live in now is Victorian. They are beautiful designs but you can hear the neighbours when they cough through the walls. I really can't imagine Dolby Atmos systems for anything other than detached houses in the sticks (where there's zero fibre broadband).
After hearing a neighbours home cinema in the AirBnB, it's really made me think. It was a really awful experience - same when you hear other TVs but can't see the picture - just not nice.
A few years ago whilst a university, my flatmate had a subwoofer and that would vibrate a real low level bass through the floor boards whenever I tried to get some sleep. Totally put me off those subs for life!

 

[threesixty360]

Haha ow damn! The town house that I live in now is Victorian. They are beautiful designs but you can hear the neighbours when they cough through the walls. I really can't imagine Dolby Atmos systems for anything other than detached houses in the sticks (where there's zero fibre broadband).
After hearing a neighbours home cinema in the AirBnB, it's really made me think. It was a really awful experience - same when you hear other TVs but can't see the picture - just not nice.
A few years ago whilst a university, my flatmate had a subwoofer and that would vibrate a real low level bass through the floor boards whenever I tried to get some sleep. Totally put me off those subs for life!

Makes you think doesn't it.. All those people upset about Dolby Atmos and DTS missing .. where on earth do they live?
I have to keep my playbase on night sound a lot of the time because I live in an 1st floor victorian flat and I cant keep annoying my neighbours!

The thing with Apple, above all these companies is that they know their customer because primarily most people buy their stuff direct from apple in their stores and are buying apple products. So when they make a decision, whether it be missing atmos, not switching tv output dynamically on Apple Tv, no headphones on iPhones etc.. you can bet they know the numbers and whether its worth it or not.

So when reviewers complain about these things as if its the end of the world you've got to wonder how much of a problem it all is. Personally I think reviewers and tech geeks thrive on controversy vs reality. Thats how they make their money I suppose.

 

[Donfor39]

Makes you think doesn't it.. All those people upset about Dolby Atmos and DTS missing .. where on earth do they live?
I have to keep my playbase on night sound a lot of the time because I live in an 1st floor victorian flat and I cant keep annoying my neighbours!

The thing with Apple, above all these companies is that they know their customer because primarily most people buy their stuff direct from apple in their stores and are buying apple products. So when they make a decision, whether it be missing atmos, not switching tv output dynamically on Apple Tv, no headphones on iPhones etc.. you can bet they know the numbers and whether its worth it or not.

So when reviewers complain about these things as if its the end of the world you've got to wonder how much of a problem it all is. Personally I think reviewers and tech geeks thrive on controversy vs reality. Thats how they make their money I suppose.

Amazing the guilty feelings return whilst I await release of Sky Soundbox, together with Sky Q, delivers exclusive sound experiences designed by Deviale

Sky Sound
Compatible with Dolby Digital Plus

3-inch woofers in dual push-push configuration

3 x 2-inch full-range drivers in 120° configuration

Closed cabinet-Often wonder what this will sound in my flat