First in-depth test of iTunes 4K Dolby Vision vs 4K UHD Blu-Ray

[priitv8]

Using a Marantz setup now with multiple amps.
...
I almost went with their Atmos speakers, but opted for ceiling speakers for better localization.

Wow! Lots of effort you’ve put in. And proves my point that a soundbar is no good for Atmos enjoyment.
AFAIK Klipsch has some very nice ceiling speaker boxes with shallow depth.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Makes you think doesn't it.. All those people upset about Dolby Atmos and DTS missing .. where on earth do they live?
I have to keep my playbase on night sound a lot of the time because I live in an 1st floor victorian flat and I cant keep annoying my neighbours!

The thing with Apple, above all these companies is that they know their customer because primarily most people buy their stuff direct from apple in their stores and are buying apple products. So when they make a decision, whether it be missing atmos, not switching tv output dynamically on Apple Tv, no headphones on iPhones etc.. you can bet they know the numbers and whether its worth it or not.

So when reviewers complain about these things as if its the end of the world you've got to wonder how much of a problem it all is. Personally I think reviewers and tech geeks thrive on controversy vs reality. Thats how they make their money I suppose.

I live 30 miles out from Westminster in London - yes the sound makes a huge difference. Not switching the output is a huge problem in a family, perhaps if I was alone I could just about deal with it, it is just a silly omission...And yes not having atmos or HD audio is simply not fitting of 4K visuals....The two should go hand in hand....

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I live 30 miles out from Westminster in London - yes the sound makes a huge difference. Not switching the output is a huge problem in a family, perhaps if I was alone I could just about deal with it, it is just a silly omission...And yes not having atmos or HD audio is simply not fitting of 4K visuals....The two should go hand in hand....

I'm hoping all of this switching business gets sorted but i'm thinking wouldn't Apple of sorted it by now if they were going to do so???
OR are they waiting for HMDI 2.2 and the new wave of TVs were this is done via the 2.2?

 

[Snoopy4]

Wow! Lots of effort you’ve put in. And proves my point that a soundbar is no good for Atmos enjoyment.
AFAIK Klipsch has some very nice ceiling speaker boxes with shallow depth.

Pricey though for now. Spent a ton on the equipment so I had to cut back at the speakers a bit.

 

[myrtledog]

Has it been confirmed that Atmos is coming to the 4K AppleTV or is it just a fingers crossed thing?

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Has it been confirmed that Atmos is coming to the 4K AppleTV or is it just a fingers crossed thing?

Yes Apple told the Verge that it was 'on their roadmap'. So if Apple are bringing out the HomePod with 360 degree sound, I wonder if they'll bring out a sounder variant to partner with the ATV?

 

[myrtledog]

Yes Apple told the Verge that it was 'on their roadmap'. So if Apple are bringing out the HomePod with 360 degree sound, I wonder if they'll bring out a sounder variant to partner with the ATV?

I really wish they’d deliver Atmos sooner rather than later. I currently keep both a Roku and the AppleTV hooked up side by side. The Roku just for Atmos audio movies...

 

[Macalicious2011]

This chap further weigh in on the streaming vs UHD Bluray debate. His arguments against Bluray are valid:

• UHD discs are sometime twice the price of a movie purchase on Apple TV.
• Some UHD Bluray don't have Dolby Vision
• UHD Players are expensive.

By no means am I proclaiming UHD Bluray dead. I just hope that discs will become more price competitive against digital copies. Even used titles on eBay are pricey.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

This chap further weigh in on the streaming vs UHD Bluray debate. His arguments against Bluray are valid:

• UHD discs are sometime twice the price of a movie purchase on Apple TV.
• Some UHD Bluray don't have Dolby Vision
• UHD Players are expensive.

By no means am I proclaiming UHD Bluray dead. I just hope that discs will become more price competitive against digital copies. Even used titles on eBay are pricey.

YES! I saw this video and found it super interesting and I believe that we'll see a lot of this. Last night was my Thursday film night with my lovely friends. There was 7 of us crammed onto my sofa and floor - all laughing, enjoying the film 'Song to Song' and eating great food, espresso and drink. Never at any stage during this great time did any of us think - 'Wow, there could be ringing in the dark around the edges if I walk up close to the TV or I wonder if the 4K disc is slightly better with the white and black combined?'
And in reality, this is how a movie should be enjoyed. Both picture and sound was great. It created an ambience. It was fun. Enjoyable. Surely, a film should never be watched by one self, merely looking for faults in the picture and sound? Isn't life too short for that?

 

[Macalicious2011]

YES! I saw this video and found it super interesting and I believe that we'll see a lot of this. Last night was my Thursday film night with my lovely friends. There was 7 of us crammed onto my sofa and floor - all laughing, enjoying the film 'Song to Song' and eating great food, espresso and drink. Never at any stage during this great time did any of us think - 'Wow, there could be ringing in the dark around the edges if I walk up close to the TV or I wonder if the 4K disc is slightly better with the white and black combined?'
And in reality, this is how a movie should be enjoyed. Both picture and sound was great. It created an ambience. It was fun. Enjoyable. Surely, a film should never be watched by one self, merely looking for faults in the picture and sound? Isn't life too short for that?

In all honesty I've hardly seen any imperfection in the 4K content I have watched so far. The loss in image quality from compression is minimal compared with 3-5 years ago when the difference between Bluray and HD streaming was glaring.

This is not a case of 4K on the Apple TV being "watchable", the quality is right there with UHD discs.

Great cast in "Song to Song". I look forward to renting Wonder Woman tomorrow.

 

[priitv8]

His arguments against Bluray are valid:

• UHD discs are sometime twice the price of a movie purchase on Apple TV.
• Some UHD Bluray don't have Dolby Vision
• UHD Players are expensive.

Every user has his/her own preferences. So their value system may be different from that of rest of the world.
I can also find similar arguments pro Bluray:

• For that price you get - UHD, BD (with extras) and digital download, without region locking. Twice the bitrate even compared to the best of UHD streaming services (iTunes ~30Mbps). Lossless object-based audio. Guaranteed access to your media (as long as disaster does not strike your home).
• Most UHD Blurays don't have Dolby Vision, but whether DoVi will dominate the HDR world, remains to be seen. HDR10+ claims to be doing the same, for less. Only time will tell. We are living interesting times, again.
• UHD Players are not more expensive than appleTV 4K, these days. As a matter of fact, cheapest listed goes for
  £129.

All (counter)arguments should be weighed in for an informed decision.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

In all honesty I've hardly seen any imperfection in the 4K content I have watched so far. The loss in image quality from compression is minimal compared with 3-5 years ago when the difference between Bluray and HD streaming was glaring.

This is not a case of 4K on the Apple TV being "watchable", the quality is right there with UHD discs.

Great cast in "Song to Song". I look forward to renting Wonder Woman tomorrow.

I totally agree and isn't that exciting Mind you, I've never over the last 6 years had a bad HD iTunes film in terms of picture quality.
I found Song to Song interesting. I loved the natural sunlight in it and the beautiful architecture. I love Studio Canal. The minute I see that logo at the beginning on a film, I know that it's going to be interesting or artistic.
I got the impression that the film director was definitely 'on a trip' throughout this film. It was bizarre to say the least.
Not a film that i'd buy but glad that I saw it as we were all waiting for this to get a rental release

Exciting times for the ATV 4K. We'll certainly be using it a lot over the Christmas period as I have a full house with friends from France, Italy & Spain staying over Films from iTunes all sorted!
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Every user has his/her own preferences. So their value system may be different from that of rest of the world.
I can also find similar arguments pro Bluray:

• For that price you get - UHD, BD (with extras) and digital download, without region locking. Twice the bitrate even compared to the best of UHD streaming services (iTunes ~30Mbps). Lossless object-based audio. Guaranteed access to your media (as long as disaster does not strike your home).
• Most UHD Blurays don't have Dolby Vision, but whether DoVi will dominate the HDR world, remains to be seen. HDR10+ claims to be doing the same, for less. Only time will tell. We are living interesting times, again.
• UHD Players are not more expensive than appleTV 4K, these days. As a matter of fact, cheapest listed goes for
  £129.

All (counter)arguments should be weighed in for an informed decision.

Speaking from experience with DVD players in the olden days, I found that cheaper players don't do a good job of playing the disc. They tend to have poor error correction systems, skip & jump the discs and then become unusable two or three years down the line. I'd always advise against a cheap player. Plus the damn huge boxes usually end up in landfills along with plastic DVD & BluRay cases and millions of old VHS tapes

It makes me happy that I watch my ATV with my own electricity from my solar panels and that the iCloud uses 100% renewable energy. When I walk into a HMV store the other Saturday afternoon, I was rather horrified at the thousands of plastic BluRay cases. What an environmental disaster! Also there were 2 people in the entire store - ON A SATURDAY AFTERNOON!!! How times have changed in retail Now if I went into an Apple store at the same time, i'd probably see 150+ people in there - it is a rather nice, inspiring experience in a Apple store isn't it.
I'd love to see espresso & juice bar areas in them with wireless iPhone charging pads on the tables

 

[Meles]

Wow! Lots of effort you’ve put in. And proves my point that a soundbar is no good for Atmos enjoyment.
AFAIK Klipsch has some very nice ceiling speaker boxes with shallow depth.

Although I haven't yet upgraded to the 205 from my Oppo 105D, it's not just about the video. The Oppo will take almost every audio or video codec I've thrown at it when I stream via Plex using the OPPO DLNA client. Since the Oppo does the decoding, Plex can do a direct stream so I get a full DTS-MA soundtrack rather than the crippled audio that you get on the Apple TV. [Infuse on the Apple TV is supposed to remedy that, but can never get it to work].

And the audio is simply the best you can get without spending thousands more.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/oppo-udp-203-ultra-hd-blu-ray-player-review

I send my Apple TV output through the Oppo then to my TV to utilize it's superior DAC and video processing.

Not having Atmos is a major, major shortcoming that Apple will surely remedy. Atmos for headphones is supposed to be marvelous for those with restricted listening conditions or watching portable Dolby Vision on an iPad Pro. Apple not doing Atmos hands headphone advantage to the xbox or windows 10 machines with creator's addition, etc.

My Samsung soundbar is stunning and deafening with Atmos including mind boggling bass performance. As an audiophile completely stunned by the Samsung whenever it lights up its Blue Atmos light.

The OP and the youtube video are right that the Apple TV iTunes with 4K is excellent. I've got Vudu on my 2017 LG OLED and it does not look as good plain and simple. The Apple TV and iPad Pro with their A10X processors both boogie on video (iPad Pro is a perfectly calibrated device). They just really do something right though anyone really comparing up close a 4K Blu-ray player will favor the disc player. With time Apple may in a few years up their video bitrate and close the gap and most of the time they have Dolby Vision versus HDR on disc. The iTunes experience is really well done plus they are giving free HDR and even 4K upgrades much of the time of your older iTunes library as it transitions.

Versus the mighty Oppo UDP-205 (I own one) the Apple TV 4K is already eclipsing the Oppo on the video front when playing back material from drives. The Oppo is very cantankerous with such material while the Infuse/Apple combo has a magnitude less issues. Infuse with Apple TV is just much slicker and works far, far better. When you go to video quality I'm just starting to really test the Oppo (as it may get the boot and be a return item). The Atmos advantage is decisive in many ways for most, but my LG can playback 4K Atmos files will similar sonics and my older htpc laptop handles Atmos just fine on the latest Windows 10 with MPC-HC, madvr, etc. (advanced stuff to be sure.) My initial testing so far has favored the Apple TV 4K/Infuse combo over everything else so far. With similar high quality files Infuse/Apple is besting the Oppo 205 for quality of color and overall impression. For non-Atmos the Apple TV is very, very strong for file playback via Infuse.

Apple TV 4K is doing a lot of things right quickly with updates and the recent file playback tests have convinced me that it and iPad pro are must have devices for the Dolby Vision/HDR revolution (Atmos should come to Apple TV 4K eventually.)