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First in-depth test of iTunes 4K Dolby Vision vs 4K UHD Blu-Ray

BODYBUILDERPAUL said:
Being honest Cynics, a purist will never be happy with Apple TV because they are never happy with anything. They are not happy with the Oppo 203 or Panasonic 4K BluRay, they'll also find fault. Just look at AVForums etc and see the mess on that site. They remind me of the armchair hifi buff of the 1970s. Critiquing rather than listening to the music and enjoying the moment!
To me, if you love the film, chances are, you won't look for artefacts in the blue sky :) Panning judder is a real pain though!
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Being honest Absrnd, i'm not convinced that the 'average viewer' is an Apple customer or has an Apple TV and rents/buys from iTunes. They'd be more likely to simply download from a pirate bay site for free or buy the DVD which for some crazy reason, has become popular at local upmarket Waitrose supermarkets (they don't sell BluRay only DVDs!!!!!! in 2017). Now try and work that one out as i'm quite baffled!

I guess that you can see a difference on a 65" TV - that is a H UG E size screen and of course, it's going to need a extreme signal in terms of quality simply to look right. 40" for me is too big :) :) :) (I keep saying that i'll have an LG OLED B7 55" but then who I see the size, I get upset and my eyes go for 40" TVs - now if LG would make a 40" OLED i'd be happy :)
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The average viewer does not pirate content. Only those with knowledge of how to set up software for that on their devices do that. That takes more knowledge than average.
 
threesixty360 said:
Makes you think doesn't it.. All those people upset about Dolby Atmos and DTS missing .. where on earth do they live?
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To be frank, I do not fully get the relation between the immersiveness (i.e. number of sound sources surrounding the seating position) and loudness of your home-movie experience.
IMHO, the more powerful your sound system is (with nice air-moving speaker cones), the lower the volume can be to still enjoy it.
 
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threesixty360 said:
Makes you think doesn't it.. All those people upset about Dolby Atmos and DTS missing .. where on earth do they live?
I have to keep my playbase on night sound a lot of the time because I live in an 1st floor victorian flat and I cant keep annoying my neighbours!

The thing with Apple, above all these companies is that they know their customer because primarily most people buy their stuff direct from apple in their stores and are buying apple products. So when they make a decision, whether it be missing atmos, not switching tv output dynamically on Apple Tv, no headphones on iPhones etc.. you can bet they know the numbers and whether its worth it or not.

So when reviewers complain about these things as if its the end of the world you've got to wonder how much of a problem it all is. Personally I think reviewers and tech geeks thrive on controversy vs reality. Thats how they make their money I suppose.
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So totally true. And great insight into Apple there. I'd never thought of it like that but, yes you are right.
You only have to look at the many many many hifi companies that have practically gone bankrupt in the last decade to know what sells. Gotta say now, whenever i'm in friends apartments and houses, it's all about iPhones, iPads and bluetooth speakers. And being honest, there's no way that i'd want speakers everywhere in my lounge or big hifi boxes, that's so not my style. As more and more people are now wanting to live in the cities, in smaller houses and apartments, the digital world is thriving and this is were the hifi world has had to make big adjustments or they simply sink. Plus people are spending their money on travel, eating out, organic food and experiences - doesn't leave much for dolby atoms, 7 speakers and big amps :)
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2010mini said:
The average viewer does not pirate content. Only those with knowledge of how to set up software for that on their devices do that. That takes more knowledge than average.
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Well, every young 20 something that I know seems to do it and they've been doing it for many years ;)
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priitv8 said:
To be frank, I do not fully get the relation between the immersiveness (i.e. number of sound sources surrounding the seating position) and loudness of your home-movie experience.
IMHO, the more powerful your sound system is (with nice air-moving speaker cones), the lower the volume can be to still enjoy it.
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Believe me, that sound still travels to the next door neighbours house :) And not many people watch these at whisper quiet sound, let's be truly honest :)
 
Good to finally see a comparison. It seems ATV could avoid things like banding by using the storage to buffer more of the movie and up the bandwidth between the ATV and the display. I love the one box solution, but there are some movies that I will buy the disc for. I also want to see Dolby Atmos and DTS-X on ATV.
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priitv8 said:
To be frank, I do not fully get the relation between the immersiveness (i.e. number of sound sources surrounding the seating position) and loudness of your home-movie experience.
IMHO, the more powerful your sound system is (with nice air-moving speaker cones), the lower the volume can be to still enjoy it.
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It matters. I love our Atmos setup. It fills the room.
 
archer75 said:
Try the oppo. It's one of the best you can get. And they update it often so as individual disc issues arise they get patched quickly.

And that way you don't have to worry about your 4k movie suddenly becoming HD or disappearing all together like on the atv.
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at those ridiculous prices? No thanks. I don't think any Blu-ray player, especially one that doesn't have apps or anything else worth $700. I'm taking that money and getting an XB1X. At least then I can play a few games every year.
 
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mmm1345 said:
at those ridiculous prices? No thanks. I don't think any Blu-ray player, especially one that doesn't have apps or anything else worth $700. I'm taking that money and getting an XB1X. At least then I can play a few games every year.
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Good thing it's not $700! Yeah, it's still expensive though. And I don't need it to have apps as I have a dozen or so devices in the house capable of streaming. I just wanted to get full quality from UHD discs. And on one that does dolby vision. It's the first UHD/BD player i've ever purchased.
 
archer75 said:
Good thing it's not $700! Yeah, it's still expensive though. And I don't need it to have apps as I have a dozen or so devices in the house capable of streaming. I just wanted to get full quality from UHD discs. And on one that does dolby vision. It's the first UHD/BD player i've ever purchased.
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I'm with you Archer on this! In all fairness, you do not need apps on a Oppo 4K BluRay player BECAUSE you have the best apps and UI on the Apple TV 4K which compliments the Opportunity PERFECTLY. Opponents believes that simply concentrating on making a 4K BluRay player with great components is the most important - they are right EVERYTHING ELSE has apps instead! Simple, we all know that the ATV is THE BEST app streamer so leave it to that, and for disc use, use an Oppo or for me, a Panasonic for occasional use of BluRay/DVD.
What I have to question is, is 700 dollars really expensive for maybe, the world's best player if a person has a 3000/4000/5000 dollar / £ TV??? I think not in that case! If you have a cheap, basic disc player, surely, that's like putting a Ford Focus engine in a Ferrari? I'm thinking that cheap disc players will have poor error correct systems and will jump/stick on discs in time. Certainly, my Sony player a few years ago, starting sticking on movies. It ended up in the bin. What a waste! (BTW I have a BANG&OLUFSEN DVD player which uses a top end Pioneer mechanism, and 12 years on, still works perfectly, so I guess, you do get what you pay for).
 
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Oh I wouldn't say the ATV is the best streamer. Maybe best for streaming apps. But for my local content it can't compete. It just doesn't support the audio formats. My Nvidia shield and plex gives me auto 24p switching, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, Atmos, DTS:X. And for gaming it can't be beat. It just doesn't have the number of apps the ATV has.
So I use both of those devices and switch between them depending on my needs.
 
BODYBUILDERPAUL said:
Very interesting review. Bear in mind that the reviewer is using, what is probably regarded as being the best performing 4K Dolby Vision Blu-Ray player - Oppo 203. (Certainly, Opposes along with LG are the only ones offering DV).
TVs used - LG OLED B7

Brilliant review and the ATV did really well. The UI interface looked beautiful compared to a 4K bluRay player. Don't forget this comparison is a £630 player Vs £199 Apple TV 4K.
My only big worry is, if I owned a £3K or £5K OLED TV, then surely, I would want the ultimate picture performance which of course comes from the disc. Sound quality no comparison of course.
However, as iTunes updates its files frequently, and as broadband becomes super fast and enters 5G etc, will we see bitrates to match UHD BluRay at 50-100mbps of course using a Ethernet connection? (Really wouldn't want to rely on WiFi for that!!!).

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Excellent review! It looks like a LG OLED TV is in my near future. Another take away is that I will probably need to upgrade my ISP's speed option to maximize bitrate on the ATV 4K. Convenience is clearly a huge benefit for me.
 
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archer75 said:
Oh I wouldn't say the ATV is the best streamer. Maybe best for streaming apps. But for my local content it can't compete. It just doesn't support the audio formats. My Nvidia shield and plex gives me auto 24p switching, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, Atmos, DTS:X. And for gaming it can't be beat. It just doesn't have the number of apps the ATV has.
So I use both of those devices and switch between them depending on my needs.
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i have both as well and love my shield
 
archer75 said:
Oh I wouldn't say the ATV is the best streamer. Maybe best for streaming apps. But for my local content it can't compete. It just doesn't support the audio formats. My Nvidia shield and plex gives me auto 24p switching, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, Atmos, DTS:X. And for gaming it can't be beat. It just doesn't have the number of apps the ATV has.
So I use both of those devices and switch between them depending on my needs.
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Yeah for local streaming the Shield is great.

For strictly streaming from paid services, they both offer about the same functionality except the Shield gets the Google Play store and Apple TV gets iTunes.

Both their remotes are garbage though. Good thing I can use my Samsung universal remote for either.
 
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PayForYourGas said:
Yeah for local streaming the Shield is great.

For strictly streaming from paid services, they both offer about the same functionality except the Shield gets the Google Play store and Apple TV gets iTunes.

Both their remotes are garbage though. Good thing I can use my Samsung universal remote for either.
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I love the shield remote. Simple and easy and it works.
 
Last night that video has my stomach in knots. Now that LoveFilm Bluray subscriptions are ceasing at the end of the month I have decided not to buy a Sony X800 or Samsung M9000 but an Apple TV instead.

Hopefully there won't be a big loss in quality going from DTS MasterAudio pass-through on my current bluray player to Dolby Digital Plus.

I might pull the trigger today and need to decide whether to buy the 32GB or 64GB version. 32GB will be more than enough but if Apple enable 4K downloads in the future I don't want to be caught short not being able to enjoy a 100 buffer free experience.

Decisions, decisions, decisions
 
Macalicious2011 said:
Last night that video has my stomach in knots. Now that LoveFilm Bluray subscriptions are ceasing at the end of the month I have decided not to buy a Sony X800 or Samsung M9000 but an Apple TV instead.

Hopefully there won't be a big loss in quality going from DTS MasterAudio pass-through on my current bluray player to Dolby Digital Plus.

I might pull the trigger today and need to decide whether to buy the 32GB or 64GB version. 32GB will be more than enough but if Apple enable 4K downloads in the future I don't want to be caught short not being able to enjoy a 100 buffer free experience.

Decisions, decisions, decisions
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Definitely go for the 64GB version. For only £20 it's so worth it. I've learnt so many time with Apple to go for the maximum storage plus surely all of that extra space should make it perform even better?

Apple have updated their size recommendation. Last month it said something similar to: 'If you plan on watching 4K film, we recommend the 64GB version'

Now it says: 'If you plan to use your Apple TV 4K primarily to stream films, TV programmes and music, or to play a few apps and games, you’ll probably be fine with 32GB of storage. If you download and use lots of apps and games, choose the 64GB configuration.1 When making your decision, keep in mind that some apps require additional storage when in use.'

Does the ATV 4K still temporarily download the film whilst streaming to prevent buffering issues?
 
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BODYBUILDERPAUL said:
you do not need apps on a Oppo 4K BluRay player BECAUSE you have the best apps and UI on the Apple TV 4K
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Although I haven't yet upgraded to the 205 from my Oppo 105D, it's not just about the video. The Oppo will take almost every audio or video codec I've thrown at it when I stream via Plex using the OPPO DLNA client. Since the Oppo does the decoding, Plex can do a direct stream so I get a full DTS-MA soundtrack rather than the crippled audio that you get on the Apple TV. [Infuse on the Apple TV is supposed to remedy that, but can never get it to work].

And the audio is simply the best you can get without spending thousands more.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/oppo-udp-203-ultra-hd-blu-ray-player-review

I send my Apple TV output through the Oppo then to my TV to utilize it's superior DAC and video processing.
 
archer75 said:
Try the oppo. It's one of the best you can get. And they update it often so as individual disc issues arise they get patched quickly.

And that way you don't have to worry about your 4k movie suddenly becoming HD or disappearing all together like on the atv.
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This!

Was watching the new planet of the apes last night. The last 20 mins, were HD (not even full), and afterwards, the last 5 mins were DVD quality... wtf?

I have a 150mbit line - i even tried to use ethernet to see if that fixed it - nope, did not.
 
Well at least you’re not paying for 4k resolution in their store, but getting a 2k experience. Sure it’s “4K” but not the bit rate of 4k so you lose details here and there.

This is like PS4 Pro, it’s 4k, but checkered so it’s not true 4k.
[doublepost=1509020028][/doublepost]But I’d like to add hdr on tv these days aren’t true hdr.
 
Donfor39 said:
Hope The House is 4K for my 1st movie purchase as all have been rented until weekend
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Yes it is buddy! 4K Dolby Vision. Is it really funny? I bought WHY HIM (James Franco) absolutely love it. Here in the UK it's only HD but is 4K DV in the USA. Also buying Hampstead and Office Christmas Party for the Christmas holidays and sadly both are only in HD. Shame for new releases as Office CP is definitely 4K HDR over in the USA. Oh well, i'm sure that thy'll both look great anyway :) :) :)
Got Saturday Night Fever 40th Anniversary Remastered for tonight with my crowd - Lasagne, salad, San Pellegrino, espresso, creme brûlée and Apple TV for late night social after the gym :)
 
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priitv8 said:
Me too :)
But do you get that with only a soundbar?? Or do you have proper multi-speaker setup??
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Using a Marantz setup now with multiple amps. Two rows of dipole surrounds, 4 rows of Atmos. Each row has a front and rear Atmos. I use a stereo speaker on each side between rows. One fires forward serving as the rear for the front row, the other fires backward as the front for the second row. Two rears. Basically a 7.1.4 setup with two rows. 17 total channels plus two subs. It’s spectacular. Just added the Marantz pre-amp and amps. Two fives and a seven. I use Polk speakers. They have great sound. Klipsch is the only others I’d consider for this setup at some point. Maybe replace them in several years. I almost went with their Atmos speakers, but opted for ceiling speakers for better localization.

One thing I can say about ATV 4k, it looks great with a big screen in 4K. Couldn’t say that with ATV3. Visually, Apple got it right. Waiting for the Atmos update should it come.

So...Star Wars anyone...someday.
 
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1st 4k dolby vision movie purchase
The House
Laughs and amazing quality.
Must comment sound seems much improved compared to recent rentals.
Amazing multiple device download option-a min or two and aptv4k-ipppro-se all benefit from my 1st movie.
 
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