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The iPad mini needs a built in GPS receiver, such that it can be used with GPS based navigation aps like Garmin.

Like the iPod Touch, for the high price premium Apple is charging it should have this.

Without it, I won't be buying one.:apple:

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Without GPS it is over priced.

Apple has ALWAYS integrated GPS into the cellular chip in iOS devices. If you order an iPad mini with 3G/LTE you will get GPS if not, well, you won't.
 
I disagree. Macrumors is a brand-centric forum catering to mostly people with interest in Apple and its products, and by its nature it's only natural to assume the forum tend to be filled with favorable sentiments toward Apple.

2 Things:

1. As someone who tries to see all things Apple as objectively as I can, I think this forum is filled with favorable sentiments toward Apple. Too often, I read posts that ignore any shortcoming and seem to go to any rationalization spin possible to cast anything in a favorable light. Sometimes it gets so ridiculous that I believe some posters must work in Apple PR. Blind devotion is what leads to the application of "drinking the kool-aid" and similar.

For example:

iPad 1 with no facetime camera was a point of aggravation for some of us (an otherwise terrific new mobile device that lacked a great feature we wanted to use while we were on the road). Here, we were generally beat over the head with posts about how stupid it would be to have a front-facing camera in an iPad. "Why would I want people seeing the hairs up my nose?", "How would the viewer on the other end be able to see me given the lack of stability when I'm holding it?", etc. The overwhelming, "Apple can do no wrong" chorus thought a front-facing camera was stupid, "makes no sense", etc. Then, iPad 2 rolls out with facetime and some of these same people gushed about how great it will be to video chat with friends & family. Why wasn't Apple just as stupid for putting in something into "2" as some of us were for wishing they put it in into "1"?

Another: 720p in :apple:TV was "good enough" right up until Apple endorsed 1080p in :apple:TV3. Prior to "3", there was enormous rationalizations like "national bandwidth couldn't handle 1080p", "file sizes", "the chart", "'I" can't see a difference so you can't either", etc. Then, out rolls "3" and all of that rationalization evaporated. I've hardly seen a post by the "720p is good enough" crowd railing against Apple for subjecting us all to the misery of 1080p. And the Internet hasn't crashed either.

Right now, there are threads finding iPad 3 "obsolete" because it is not "latest & greatest" while there are other threads finding iPad mini "good enough" without retina. We must have retina when compared to other company's devices that lack it, but we don't have to have retina if Apple has decided that some products should be launched without it. Passionate arguments wanting "latest & greatest" (but only from Apple) vs. "good enough" are being made right now... seemingly in support of whatever it appears Apple wants us to think about such products.

What we have is hypocrisy and flip flopping with an heavy bias to going with whatever Apple says. Even when Apple itself flips flops (why would anyone want to watch video on an iPod -> introducing iPod with video), the majority of this crowd supports the view then flips right with Apple. I sometimes wonder if most of us would become single if Apple decreed that our significant other was undesirable: "they are undesirable", "why would I ever want someone like that", "what was I thinking?", "die SE die", etc. (just joking... sort of);)

2. If we could wave a magic wand and eliminate all of those who can offer critique of Apple stuff- ranging from the "trolls" to those who just have something negative to post some of the time- these threads would get very boring quickly. Try to imagine that kind of thread. There would be some kind of gushing post followed by a bunch of "Yes!", "Exactly", and "This" posts. Someone would add something the first gusher left out followed by a bunch of echos. Someone else would add something else positive that was left out. Echos. In a short amount of time, every thread would be the same (just sub in a different Apple product name where a product is referenced).

It's always the varied opinions- including the critical ones- that makes the "conversation" interesting. If one is looking for opinions & thoughts about any new product, they usually want the pros & the cons. All pros- or all cons- doesn't tell us much. Either the product is perfection (to warrant all pros) or we need to go somewhere else- where objectivity is allowed- to form a real picture. Go over to Amazon and look at Apple products. You can easily filter for only the 5-star "reviews" or only the 1-star "reviews". What good is either in isolation? I often find myself looking at the 2, 3 & 4-star reviews to try to get a sense of the good and the bad before I buy.

Frankly, I appreciate the cons. When the cons are ridiculously negative, I simply discount them... just as I do when the pros are ridiculously positive. If I could wave the magic wand, I'd screen out the raving fans & foes and only leave those in the middle: those who can objectively recognize the good AND THE BAD in Apple products. In my own case, it helps me decide if the product is a fit for me or not. All gushing praise or all hating bashes would be practically useless for my own purposes.
 
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The idea that fault-finding is evidence of a reasoned opinion is one of the worst ideas on this forum. It's entirely possible for a critical eye to conclude "this product is best in its class and any negatives are insignificant, all things considered". Chin stroking over small ginned up 'flaws' isn't the virtue it's often presented as.
 
Apple is a premium brand. Their products will always come at a premium. That's why it's expensive, like any other premium brand. They charge more because their goal isn't to make the best cheap tablet, it's to make the best small tablet. And that comes at a premium. It's for customers who want that. Apple fills that market. So don't be shocked when their products' prices don't compare to their competitors who have lesser build quality and lesser customer service. If you don't want to pay BMW prices, you can buy a Ford.

This is true for the most part, but not always. For instance, the first iPhone was incredibly overpriced compared to most every other phone, and it wasn't until SJ announced the subsidized price of the 3G that things really took off. You can say it was about the new hardware, or new look, or app store announcement, but for me... I would never have bought my first iPhone if I had to pay the 'premium' price, and I would guess it's that way with the vast majority of people. Keep the premium, and you push people away. Bring the price down, even if it's by 'cheating' with a subsidy, and you suddenly get tens of millions of people who realize they can afford it.

In fact, I've personally seen that the source of most complaining about Apple products has been with their price. If Apple was competitive on price, they would almost certainly have more fanboys. It's hard to be a fanboy when I can't afford something though.

Overall, Apple understands their demographic, and they price their products to get past the reticence of many while still maximizing profit.

The problem with the mini's price, I think, is that they can't go lower than $329 without causing issues with their other product lines. Say it was $250 to compete with the other tablets... what does that do to iPod touch sales? Essentially, they have too many specialized devices at established prices, and they can step on each other in the marketplace.

It's dangerous territory, definitely, because they are competing with themselves as much as their real competitors. I'm afraid it would take Tim Cook himself to change it though, now that they have set the precedent. I don't think the other execs are willing to upset the boat. It would be really nice to be a fly on the wall in the board room during that conversation though...
 
So where can we find your write up from your hands on with an actual device? I mean, you have used one to be so sure, right?

Did you not read his post? "Point blank its a nicer design but specs wise and no retina is a rip off." those are facts posted on Apples own site and you don't need one in hand to know.
 
Yes, Apple collects user data, but their business model is not mainly on advertisements. Google's main source of revenue is advertisement. Google and Amazon are selling their tables at or below cost, that is a fact. So where is the statement from Google that Google is not selling our info to advertisers for their main source of revenue?
And whats wrong with making money by being the middle man and collecting money for connecting advertisers to consumers? Consumers want products. Advertisers want to sell products to them. Nothing sinister like it was insinuated with the statement, "they sell you to advertisers." No Google does not sell personal info about you. And Apple is actually pimping their users more, because they force everybody to use the app store to get apps, and they charge a fee for access to people using the app store who had no choice in the first place but to use the app store. They act like they own you. And anybody that wants a piece has to pay.
 
In short, it has the same lifespan as an iPad 2, which is a 20-month old device. That goes for future iOS releases as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see it discontinued before its time, like it happened with the iPad 1st gen.

You mean like Google did with the 1st generation 8GB 7" Nexus tablet. Wasn't that released about 5 months ago and is now discontinued.
 
Better yet, never buy anything because something better will always be released sooner or later.

Not what i meant, this is an OBVIOUS apple tactic now, they could have easily put retina in the mini , the screen tech is already out there and tested, they chose to put it non-retina knowing that they can sell retina as a "feature" once all the apple frothers rush out and buy this model.

Ill just wait for that 2nd gen, which i suspect will be arriving around march-april time.
 
I have a hard time accepting that other companies are able to solve the weight/batter/display issue, but Apple can't.

there is a lot of display resolution that is retina. It depend on the size of the display and the viewing distant. But at 2048x1536 (IPad 3/4 resolution), the state of art is using multiple back light (which consume power like crazy and hence bigger battery pack). both Ipad 3/Ipad 4 and Nexus 10 (which has slightly higher resolution) has weight in the 1.33lb to 1.44 lb range.. And Ipad mini is only 10.8 oz. So the question is how much more weight do you want to add to Ipad mini to get 2048x1536 retina.. In 6 months or a year, things may change.. but it is driven by display supplier ability to get the high resolution with less back light. Apple is at the mercy of the supplier. Apple is hell bend not to use other display resolution to protect the App experience.. Unless and until Apple figure out how to make all the tablet App work in some in between resolution without massive change by developer, we are stuck..
 
Nobody said it wasn't going to be a good tablet. But it is still over-priced. So-- a big fat "no thanks".

if the market bears the price, then by definition it is not over-priced. the market buyers will only pay the value they perceive a tool to be worth.

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No kidding. I am blown away by how many people are in love with Apple products no matter what they release.

...er, wheres your proof that all those reviewers love it because its apple, rather than because they feel its a high-quality tool with a price in line with their expectations on real-world value?
 
Loop Insight's review shouldn't have been included, it's not a major player and reads more like a fanboy's blog post than a tech reviewing site. I still have no interest in one but am sure these will sell like crazy.
 
The reason everyone is upset about the resolution is because the mini is priced too high for the quality of the product. Why spend $329 on the mini when you could spend $379 for a retina iPad.

you cannot buy a retina ipad for $379 retail.

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It's like a netbook. Smaller, lighter, underpowered, and doesn't do anything "better" than it's big brother.

youre wrong. it does two things better: it's better at being lighter. it's better at being smaller.

...if those two things arent valuable to you thats fine, but they are to other people. thus apple sells two sizes.

not everyone is you. difficult concept, i know...

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You haven't tried Imaps, then....

maps works excellently in my major US city. the vector UI is far superior to apple's prior maps app.
 
It seems so amusing that everyone is worried about the screen when it is higher DPI than the iPad was until "the new iPad" earlier THIS YEAR ... and the iPad 2 is still being sold, why is better than that now suddenly unacceptable?
That's how people function... we take things for granted 10 seconds after we first heard of them.

- Here's the iPad 2!
- ZOMG it's awzum!!
- Here's an even newer iPad with Retina display!
- WOAH that's dope!!
- Now give that back, here's your iPad 2 again!
- What an unbelievably vile piece of archaic stone-age garbage. Neanderthals used these. I wouldn't give this to my dog.
 
Seems like a decent product. But simply just overpriced. Even more now that you can get a 32GB Nexus 7 for $249. I know some people prefer iOS, but damn paying $80 more and for half the storage. The only thing you gain is a rear camera.

To each his own I suppose.


1. Because the Nexus 7 doesn't run iOS
2. I don't find the design as appealing
3. I like the 4:3 aspect ratio on a tablet and will enjoy having the 35% more screen real estate
4. I already have more than $80 worth of apps that I like and am used to on iOS that I'd have to re-buy (if they are available) on a non-iOS device
5. I hate getting frustrated, and will pay more for a product that won't frustrate me

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No kidding. I am blown away by how many people are in love with Apple products no matter what they release. The mini is about $100 overpriced and will have a hard time competing with the Kindle HD, Nook HD and Nexus all of which have better resolution than the mini and cost less.

No, it won't. You acknowledged it in your post - people are in love with Apple products no matter what... And the iPad Mini is exactly what tons of Apple fans have been wanting. It will outsell all 3 of those individually, and probably more than Kindle HD and Nook HD combined, despite the cost premium.

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Why spend $329 on the mini when you could spend $379 for a retina iPad.


How do I get a retina iPad for $379..? I still think I'd prefer the mini size of a 9.7" iPad, but I'm curious how this deal is had anyway.
 
How pathetic. Engadget has already removed all mention of the iPad mini from their front page because of all the anti-Apple zealot iHaters they had bitching about it.
 
Not what i meant, this is an OBVIOUS apple tactic now, they could have easily put retina in the mini , the screen tech is already out there and tested, they chose to put it non-retina knowing that they can sell retina as a "feature" once all the apple frothers rush out and buy this model.

The manufacturers who make retina screens cannot pump them out fast enough for even the retina macbooks. It takes a hell of alot of logistics to get an operation that big off the ground. The supply side of the market on screens is completely tapped out right now going into the holiday season.

The world isn't as easy as, well we've made "retina" screens, now lets just cut them to size :rolleyes:

Yield rates are still piss poor on 13" screens, why do you think its simple as pie to just make a 7.9" retina when everyone and their brother already has screen manufacturers on lock throughout the holiday season?

Do you understand anything about manufacturing, or business? :confused:
 
You know what the iPad mini needs? You to go back to school. GPS has been built into ALL cellular enabled apple products since the iPhone 3GS

The iPad mini needs a built in GPS receiver, such that it can be used with GPS based navigation aps like Garmin.

Like the iPod Touch, for the high price premium Apple is charging it should have this.

Without it, I won't be buying one.:apple:

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Without GPS it is over priced.
 
I can't justify owning (any) iPad again, unless I get rid of my MBP. Having a laptop, an iPad, and an iPhone is just overkill in my opinion. They're all mobile devices, and one of them will inevitably be extraneous. The iPhone is super-portable, the MBP is super-powerful. The iPad is a compromise on both fronts, so it got sold.

That said, I'd buy an iPad if I ever ditched my MBP for an iMac. I could see it making a semi-suitable substitute in that case.

Damn.

I feel the same way you do. I had a MBP, iPad 3, and now an iPhone 5. Waaay too much portability that I don't know what to do with myself. I ended up selling my MBP and iPad to help for a new car purchase, and I figured I would get a desktop and another iPad down the road - to have less portable devices. Surprisingly, I'm missing the portability of a MacBook and feel no desire to have an iPad. Only want an iPad now simply to have one.
 
Without GPS it is over priced.

The LTE version has GPS.

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That's how people function... we take things for granted 10 seconds after we first heard of them.

- Here's the iPad 2!
- ZOMG it's awzum!!
- Here's an even newer iPad with Retina display!
- WOAH that's dope!!
- Now give that back, here's your iPad 2 again!
- What an unbelievably vile piece of archaic stone-age garbage. Neanderthals used these. I wouldn't give this to my dog.

Wow, ramble much.
 
I didn't get an iPad til the iPad 2. I won't get a mini til it has a gig of ram and a retina display.
 
I am waiting to see an iPad Mini in person. Especially a black one... all the press has been focused mostly on the white faced version.

I have access to the latest Apple Laptops through my work, so an iOS device isn't likely to be my only internet access method or media storage device.

I have an iPhone 4, not 4S... just 4. The screen is cracked, but still works, otherwise. Aside from the antenna attenuation if I "hold it wrong."

My wife has, and loves, her iPad 2, and uses it a lot. I use it a little, but still use the laptop if I have to type anything.

I hardly ever make phone calls, I don't text, tweet, or update face book. I guess I just am not very social. I read. I sometimes comment on internet forums like this.

I use my iPhone more for information and internet access than any other function. I don't even play games much.

But for information, the iPhone Retina screen is pretty small, and has to be held pretty close, and takes a lot of scrolling, and pinching/spreading.

I am debating, though... an iPhone 5, which would require a new contract, and likely un-grandfather my unlimited data plan... and another 2 years of obligation. I can't afford an iP5 without a contract.

Or if I should try a cellular-equipped iPad Mini. It is still as-good/better than the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 we already have. It won't be as high-spec as the iPhone 5, nor as pocket-freindly... but being in my pocket while I was working on something that I had to lie on the ground to access, is also what cracked my iP4's screen...

But I do wonder if iPad mini with mic-equipped headphones, or a bluetooth ear-piece, or it's own built in mic, combined with either Facetime, or Skype VoIP phone features... if an iPad mini would be a good carry information device, that can make the very few phone calls that I usually make... probably in addition to keeping the iP4 in service as a backup, a while longer also, off-contract, and the wife keeping the iPad 2 a little longer for her use.

Everyone is going nuts about how the iPad Mini isn't as good as the iPhone 5 or iPad 4... it seems like it is better than iPhone 4 or iPad 2, and half way between the size factors.

I wish folks would keep in mind that the whole user-base for Apple's devices doesn't turn completely over with each new product. Some of us are ready to upgrade after a couple of product generations have passed, and what was stellar 6 months ago, isn't actually crap today, just because it isn't the highest spec for the lowest price.

I wish I could read about these new products and get some context that is a bit wider in scope than the last few minutes, and the products that were announced a week ago, or products that may come out in the next 6-18 months that don't exist yet.
 
if an iPad mini would be a good carry information device, that can make the very few phone calls that I usually make... probably in addition to keeping the iP4 in service as a backup, a while longer also, off-contract, and the wife keeping the iPad 2 a little longer for her use.

If the calls you make are outbound (you calling others), I suspect the iPad Mini + VOIP app will work great for your situation. You may even find that you have wifi enough that you don't even need LTE/3G for periods of time, which will save you a lot of money vs. a 2-year contract obligation whether you use any LTE/3G or not. VOIP-based inbound calls are a little shakier, though some VOIP apps are better than others for this.

If you are worried about the phone-side backup, some are suggesting an iPad mini + a cheap "dumb" phone with cheap plan... but that does yield 2 devices to carry around instead of one.

Myself? I'm thinking iPad Mini with LTE + VOIP. Like you, I don't need much phone capability and I already know VOIP will cover what I do need. I also have wifi in most places, so I'll use the LTE side of the mini only in situations where I really need to connect right now and can't locate any available wifi nearby. I rarely need to receive inbound calls (odds are high that such calls will go to voice mail most of the time), so I'm mostly calling people back. VOIP with just data is perfect for that.

Some people- usually those who already own iPhones- have a very hard time seeing this as a potential iPhone replacement. But for those who don't really use the phone portion itself, I could see this being a great option. Even if you need LTE/3G connection all of the time, the plans are much better than the iPhone LTE/3G plans. Earbuds + microphone for calls, everything else is apps on a bigger screen.
 
Price is fine at $329... here is why

Right now Apple product is contrained supply side... they are selling like hot cakes, no need to lower the price.

Can't have anyone yelling "ME ME ME ME ME" when it comes to buying an iPad mini or there will be a lot of unsatisfied customers who can't get their hands on one and bunch of scalpers profiting from it by selling at above $329 anyway.

Cheers.
 
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