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I like the NYT review: "the haters can go jump of a pier"

On the other hand I don't see why "The Loop" highlighted the speed increase... the phone was fast enough before, even the iPhone 4 is fast enough probably, so unless you want to run benchmarks all day, it really doesn't matter.
 
I know people are going to defend apple on this. I'm a huge apple fan myself. The thing is RAM is meant for apps as well. I can only wonder what app developers can do with more RAM to work with.

I am not going to be defend apple on this. If true, 1 gb is a massive drawback to the performance of some apps
 
Lack of innovation and constrained stock myths

About being innovative, can someone give me an example of what that means, scrolling with your eyeball or with the wave of your hand? Apple is always being bashed for not being innovative but yet when they come out with a 64bit processor the critics say it's useless cos the apps can't make use of it and the same goes for the fingerprint sensor.

Most people here use innovation as a buzzword meaning "a new functionality that is important to me and that no-one else (and certainly not Android) has developed previously".

It is nonsense. There is no true fixed definition of innovation, but what it basically means is that a business has developed a new process, service, product or a part of these things that does things differently than before or improves upon the previous situation.

The eyeball scrolling of Samsung is an innovation. It might be useless to most, but it is. The same goes for the motion sensor in the 5S. Many people might dismiss it as useless but it is an innovation nonetheless.

The new metal reinforced plastic case is an innovation as well as the production process to match fitting iPhone backplate components using photographic methods.

Many people on this forum and outside require Apple to introduce new features and functionality in each iteration that will have a disruptive effect on the market. But this is impossible with the maturity of the smartphone market in terms of technology. there is basically not much room for feature innovation that will convert Android people to Apple or vice versa.

In addition, many people here lack a general understanding of how complicated innovation is, especially in the consumer electronics space. A lot of it is going on under the surface of the devices that a general consumer never sees. It is an incredible feat of engineering to be able to continually reduce the size of the phone, but still increase battery capacity (albeit in small increments).

I also challenge those people that want Apple to become more innovative to come up with features that will really enhance the usability of the device and that is important enough to include in the device to warrant the production of millions. Most asked for features such as waterproof-ness, NFC etc are confined to small niches of the market and would add tremendous cost to the device without adding any appeal to a large part of the market.

Another myth is the "artificially constrained stock" that people seem to suspect Apple is creating with the 5S and 5C. The fact of the matter is that the production of a new device is not simply a matter of sending some factory in China a few schematics. With the volumes that Apple demands and the complexity of their production process it requires retooling or building completely new factories or adapting existing ones. Production lines need to be altered, machines tested and calibrated and manufacturing personnel needs to be hired and trained. It's not a matter of telling everyone to dump the 5 and to start producing the 5S on the same production line. With a yearly update cycle there is just very small room to do all this and ramp up production for the launch. The most convincing proof that Apple is not withholding stock or producing small quantities on purpose is the staggered launches in different regions. Apple wants to have these things in the hands of as many people around the globe as soon as possible. There is no sense in holding back other countries in that regard.

I'm sure this long text might scare off most 5 year olds that cry for innovation and more production on many page of this thread, but I hope this at least sheds some light on how these things work for some that take the time to read.
 
I like the NYT review: "the haters can go jump of a pier"

On the other hand I don't see why "The Loop" highlighted the speed increase... the phone was fast enough before, even the iPhone 4 is fast enough probably, so unless you want to run benchmarks all day, it really doesn't matter.

just rent Anand's thorough review of the 5s. he says that looking at ios 7 performance, the 4s is really as "low" as he would go to get a nice experience. the 4 was noticeably sluggish. i've been running ios 7 on a 4s and i've been quite happy with it...
I am not going to be defend apple on this. If true, 1 gb is a massive drawback to the performance of some apps

maybe, maybe not. again, read Anand's review. he doesn't seem to think that a limit of 1GB at the moment is a limiting amount...he posts a LOT of different benchmarks and i don't recall him mentioning that ram was a problem.
 
Every year the reviews are the same. I think they just change the 3, to a 4 to a 4s, to a 5, etc....

The phone is the same, so I get that the reviews will always be the same. But I swear these websites get paid by apple, some of the reviews are over the top.

I purchase a ton of apple stuff, but some of you need help. Your infatuation with apple is really disturbing!

somebody finally telling them what they need to hear
 
Not so

Since when is security a "minimal" feature? People may not use a password but they'll use the fingerprint sensor because it works and it's painless... unlike passwords. Guarantee you that these type of sensors will be "must have" and standard on mid and high end phones in 2014. But Apple is the first to get it right. Yes, that is what innovation is about -- making something in a novel way so that it's practical to use.

No they won't be a 'must have'. For me any device that scans my fingerprints and stores them is a 'must not have'. If this becomes standard on all iPhones then I'll move to a different platform. If it becomes standard on all smart phones, then I'll just go back to an old Nokia. Having the security services getting hold of my personal data is one thing (and it will happen), but having hackers get it would be catastrophic.
 
finger wha?

Ok, its, 4am, Im tired, but I cant think of one single solitary thing a developer would use the fingerprint reader for, other than unlocking an app or purchases!

Anyone, Bueller, Bueller? Ideas?
 
No they won't be a 'must have'. For me any device that scans my fingerprints and stores them is a 'must not have'. If this becomes standard on all iPhones then I'll move to a different platform. If it becomes standard on all smart phones, then I'll just go back to an old Nokia. Having the security services getting hold of my personal data is one thing (and it will happen), but having hackers get it would be catastrophic.

No need to become overly dramatic, just turn it off and use the pin-code security feature.
 
There's so much fanboyism on both sides of all these debates - but even then if someone merely criticizes Apple here they're a Samsung plant, praise anything Apple on another forum and you're an iSheep etc.

Once you get past all this, back in the real world where "normal" people can have a rational opinion you end up with something like this:


iPhone 5C - It's an iPhone 5 in a new case, nice enough if you don't already have an iPhone 5 and a little cheaper. That's about it. Let's not get crazy about minor internal architecture changes and a slightly better Facetime cam, there's no revolution here and in reality the plastic (sorry, Polycarbonate) is probably a better functional material than aluminium for both durability and reception. Shame they don't make it in a tasteful black rather than just dayglo colours for men too (insert sarcasm face here please :rolleyes: ).


iPhone 5S - It's not massively "innovative" as others have said, mobile phone tech has matured a lot and there are iterative improvements in all models every year, it will take something huge to be truly innovative now and a Fingerprint sensor isn't as big a deal as the fanboy types are making out - it's a security improvement that limits the need for pin-codes and potentially passwords (not presently though), that's it.

The 64-Bit processor is nice but currently no real benefit for the majority of phone use, you can't on one hand argue that's amazing and then when others bring up limited RAM say "but why would you need more?", both are much the same argument and most of us have felt the iPhone 5 to be pretty much powerful enough for most applications.

Camera upgrade nice but again iterative, it gets improved pretty much every generation - it is indeed a nice camera but then the one in the iPhone 5 is too.


If you want an iPhone or are due an upgrade from an old one these are great phones. If you've got an iPhone 5 (as I have) and take a step back to look at these new features you won't really gain a great deal from either model in reality unless you're desperate to get rid of your pin-code (which I don't use). Neither offers anything particularly exciting to worry the competition or excite stock markets.

While not innovative I expect many of us simply want a slightly larger screen in a similar-sized package to make reading web text and watching YouTube videos a little easier, 4.3-4.5" max is plenty. That would be enough for many like me to warrant an upgrade rather than spec bumps to a device that already runs very quick and smoothly. Another upgrade would be a 2-******-metre USB cable as standard but I'm easy to please like that. ;)
 
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is being able to handle more than 4GB of RAM is the only advantage of having 64 bit OS?

From what I understand going 64-bit is more forward looking than for providing direct benefits on the 5S. I don't know a lot about processor architecture but apparently there are more data registers and Apple was able to take advantage of going 64-bit to write a new instruction set that is more efficient. These things would benefit the 5S now.

Being able to address more than 4GB of RAM may not be for the iPhone or iPad first. The new Xbox and Playstation each have 8GB of RAM. Makes one wonder if Apple has something else up its sleeve...
 
Most people don't need more security than they already had, which is the option of using a password or not. I have no doubt that they will become standard, but most people don't regularly expose their phones to potential use by unauthorized people, so it won't make much of a difference. In the rare event of their phone being stolen, Apple can already disable the phone remotely. So in very rare circumstances it will be useful but it's not game-changing by any stretch.

I think you're missing the potential. This will eventually give me access to the secure/private parts of all my apps without any fuss: online banking, ebay, amazon, Facebook etc. It will potentially let me give the phone to my wife/colleagues/friends/children without unlocking all my personal details. That's pretty neat (and game-changing - it essentially obsoletes all other authentication mechanisms, partly because of the volume of iphone sales).
 
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is being able to handle more than 4GB of RAM is the only advantage of having 64 bit OS?

It's an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time. Longer "words" mean you can do Integer-arithmetic more easily and efficient, but at the same time you need more RAM to store these, because they are double the length of a 32Bit "word". To make up for this, you need more registers so that even unoptimized or 32Bit programs don't lose too much of their previous performance.

What it comes down to is this: if you don't use the advantages of 64, there is none.
;)
 
iPhone 5s will be my first smart phone. I preferred the iPad and OS X products. I've been waiting for the tech and power to mature, along with the OS and Dev Tools.

I wouldn't have bought any other smartphone to complement OS X Dev, but I wanted to wait until the tech covered a large swath of potential options before dealing with carrier hosing.
 
I'm using an iPhone 3GS, and I was hoping for a reason to upgrade. But there is little that matters to me.

A. The 5S is faster: this is illusory. It will be faster than the iPhone 5 running iOS 7, but the iPhone 5 running iOS 7 will be slower than the iPhone 5 running iOS 6. Apple doesn't want to or doesn't know how to (or probably both) make a new iOS run well on older devices. Whatever speed the iPhone 5S has now, it will slow to a crawl with iOS 9. This may be irrelevant to people in the USA with 2 year contracts, but that's not how the entire world works.

B. The iPhone 5S has a bigger screen and different form factor: the increased height while keeping the same width makes the iPhone 5S show less of some webpages when compared to the iPhone 4S and older models. This is worse in landscape mode. Besides, as far as form factor goes, I prefer the curved back of the 3GS.

C. Better camera, which is actually the only real benefit; but IMO, I can take work pictures with my iPad, and for sporadic pictures the 3GS camera works.

D. Fingerprint sensor: useless to me. I take care to not lose my phone and I don't have anything sensitive in there, so it does not lock under a password. The fingerprint sensor has then no purpose, considering its limited utility. For the records, it's the same as Siri, which is rather useless in my country.

For me, Apple has failed. I want to buy a new phone (my 3GS is beginning to break), but Apple has not managed to release anything I would really like to buy. A better keyboard (on a new iOS, which would require a newer device) would be my main reason to update; a bigger screen would be nice, too. More customization options would be great, but that's something Apple would never allow.
 
No they won't be a 'must have'. For me any device that scans my fingerprints and stores them is a 'must not have'. If this becomes standard on all iPhones then I'll move to a different platform. If it becomes standard on all smart phones, then I'll just go back to an old Nokia. Having the security services getting hold of my personal data is one thing (and it will happen), but having hackers get it would be catastrophic.

Really? Either you have a significantly overinflated self worth, thinking the government even cares to have your fingerprint, or you are needing to hide from the government because you have done something wrong or are planning to in the near future.

What exactly, other than in cases where you are arrested or work in the military or government security detail, are fingerprints used to "track" you?

Fingerprints should only be part if what you worry about. Writing to forums online and using any cell phone offers someone the ability to track you. Driving a car, having a library card, credit card, going to a bank, shopping. You might want to consider moving to northern Idaho, cutting yourself off from all outside contact, including the use of the electrical grid, and start preparing for the end of the world.
 
Anandtech debunks iPhone 5S myths

If you haven't checked it out already, the Anandtech review is a must read. It debunks several myths (64-bit is useless without additional memory, provides no noticeable improvement in performance, fingerprint sensor is a gimmick, no innovation, etc), repeated throughout this forum, including in this thread.

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What's innovative about it, other than the fingerprint sensor which has a fairly minimal functional value for most people? Iterating the processor and camera is useful but not innovative. You could make the case that IOS 7 is innovative, but that's not part of the phone; other iPhones can use it as well.

Actually the fingerprint sensor has one very useful function. What if you were in an accident or collapsed in the street. If you lock your phone with a password the emergency services cannot access your contacts to let them know. With the fingerprint scanner they can just place your thumb on the sensor, access your contacts and let someone know what has happened to you.
 
I'm using an iPhone 3GS, and I was hoping for a reason to upgrade. But there is little that matters to me.

A. The 5S is faster: this is illusory. It will be faster than the iPhone 5 running iOS 7, but the iPhone 5 running iOS 7 will be slower than the iPhone 5 running iOS 6. Apple doesn't want to or doesn't know how to (or probably both) make a new iOS run well on older devices. Whatever speed the iPhone 5S has now, it will slow to a crawl with iOS 9. This may be irrelevant to people in the USA with 2 year contracts, but that's not how the entire world works.

B. The iPhone 5S has a bigger screen and different form factor: the increased height while keeping the same width makes the iPhone 5S show less of some webpages when compared to the iPhone 4S and older models. This is worse in landscape mode. Besides, as far as form factor goes, I prefer the curved back of the 3GS.

C. Better camera, which is actually the only real benefit; but IMO, I can take work pictures with my iPad, and for sporadic pictures the 3GS camera works.

D. Fingerprint sensor: useless to me. I take care to not lose my phone and I don't have anything sensitive in there, so it does not lock under a password. The fingerprint sensor has then no purpose, considering its limited utility. For the records, it's the same as Siri, which is rather useless in my country.

For me, Apple has failed. I want to buy a new phone (my 3GS is beginning to break), but Apple has not managed to release anything I would really like to buy. A better keyboard (on a new iOS, which would require a newer device) would be my main reason to update; a bigger screen would be nice, too. More customization options would be great, but that's something Apple would never allow.

You really don't think this is an upgrade over 3GS? Or is this some very thoughtfully written troll?

Anyway, you should upgrade to get the iOS7 improvements which you can't get on your 3GS. Enjoy. You only live once and you use your smartphone a lot. Make it the best phone you can afford.
 
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