First Mac Mini Benchmark Surfaces Ahead of November 7 Launch

[Traverse]

Of course, sorry, edited it now.

Thank you for that, I'm reading through that now. Does Apple sell the same GPU as in the iMac as an external GPU? It appears that way based on their product page below:

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HM8Y2VC/A/blackmagic-egpu

Of course, they also sell a $1,200 one as well.

 

[obiwan]

Master Kenobi, are you running Logic Pro on your machine? That's what I'm doing now on my late 2013 iMac. I use tons of samples, but nothing too crazy as far as amounts of tracks (usually between 10-15). Do you think these new Mac Minis could handle that with ease?

Absolutely! - I'm using Logic Pro X. I used to use Cubase & HALion on my PowerMac G5 back in the day, and ran massive (12GB or so) piano sample libraries. The G5 used to handle it back then, so these Mac Mini's should be handle that sort of load with ease. Samples generally need low latency, so a low latency audio interface and plenty of RAM will help (as well as fast storage). It's mainly running multiple plug-ins/effects on multiple channels that starts to eat up the CPU cycles.

I don't think it's surprising that Apple chose to show off these 2018 Mac Mini's, set up as a music studio hub. - Which seems to be one of the use cases they are envisaging for these machines.

 

[StellarVixen]

Thank you for that, I'm reading through that now. Does Apple sell the same GPU as in the iMac as an external GPU? It appears that way based on their product page below:

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HM8Y2VC/A/blackmagic-egpu

Of course, they also sell a $1,200 one as well.

Yes, but the downside is: that GPU is not removable, once you decide that you want better card, you cannot open that and throw a new card in.

Personally, would never buy it. The choice is yours, though.

 

[Spectrum]

I honestly don't understand the allure of the mini for existing Mac users. It's too expensive to be a reasonable media server choice, too under-powered to be a pro workstation, and obviously lacks the portability of a laptop. It honestly seems like most experienced users would be better off with either waiting until Apple releases new Pro towers or going an entirely different route for their particular needs.

I am running a 2011 quad mini for daily use. For me the 2018 mini seems an absolutely excellent machine. Plenty of power. I don't need Xeons, and I currently have two displays that the 2011 powers, so no requirement for the iMac 5K.
Adding SSD boot drove to the iMac also dramatically raises the prices.

 

[obiwan]

Yes, but the downside is: that GPU is not removable, once you decide that you want better card, you cannot open that and throw a new card in.

Personally, would never buy it. The choice is yours, though.

It would be better to go for something like the Sonnet eGFX enclosure, and then pair it with your own GPU card. - Although, currently there are no eGPU setups that support a Thunderbolt display like the black magic eGPU offering does.

Check out Max Yuryev's review:

 

[Spectrum]

It would be better to go for something like the Sonnet eGFX enclosure, and then pair it with your own GPU card. - Although, currently there are no eGPU setups that support a Thunderbolt display like the black magic eGPU offering does.

Check out Max Yuryev's review:

What do you mean by "support a Thunderbolt Display"? Don't all the eGPU setups allow output to a 4K or 5K display (or multiple displays)? What is the point otherwise?

 

[citysnaps]

I honestly don't understand the allure of the mini for existing Mac users. It's too expensive to be a reasonable media server choice, too under-powered to be a pro workstation, and obviously lacks the portability of a laptop. It honestly seems like most experienced users would be better off with either waiting until Apple releases new Pro towers or going an entirely different route for their particular needs.

I use a headless 2012 MacMini for a Z-Wave home automation controller using Indigo Domotics software, along with a bunch of ip-based POE security cameras. It's perfect for that and has been 100% reliable for a number of years.

I'll soon be upgrading to a 2018 Mini which in addition to that and more cameras, will act as a centralized back-up system for various computers/devices in the house via 10Gbit ethernet Cat 7 and WiFi, with disk arrays interfaced through TB 3. And...It will also drive a rotating display of my photography and wife's art to several wall-mounted large screen displays in our home.

I think the 2018 Mini will make a pretty awesome and cost effective controller. Can't wait to get my hands on one and get everything going.

 

[StellarVixen]

It would be better to go for something like the Sonnet eGFX enclosure, and then pair it with your own GPU card. - Although, currently there are no eGPU setups that support a Thunderbolt display like the black magic eGPU offering does.

Check out Max Yuryev's review:

I would rather not buy any AMD card at all, I am really hoping to see if we are finally going to get nVIDIA web drivers for Mojave and get the GTX 1080.

Otherwise, it will be Vega. But, I really think that we are going to see nVIDIA drivers soon, they have to give them to us.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Yes, but the downside is: that GPU is not removable, once you decide that you want better card, you cannot open that and throw a new card in.

Personally, would never buy it. The choice is yours, though.

Like you, I’d much rather buy an eGPU enclosure that would allow me to upgrade.

But the Blackmagic has a specific use case, in that it’s quiet, can accelerate a 5K attached display and is blessed by both DaVinci and Apple. It also has an 85W charging capability, and four USB 3.1 in addition to HDMI and two TB3 ports.

It’s really for video pros but it’s not outrageously expensive for someone who wants a no-hassle, plug and play experience—if you need what it offers.

 

[obiwan]

What do you mean by "support a Thunderbolt Display"? Don't all the eGPU setups allow output to a 4K or 5K display (or multiple displays)? What is the point otherwise?

The Blackmagic eGPU has a thunderbolt 3 output to support the LG Ultrafine 4K/5K display. An eGPU setup comprising of a Sonnet eGFX enclosure and AMD Vega 64 GPU (for example) would only support 4K/5K display with HDMI/Display Port connections. - As far as I am aware, there are currently no GPU cards that support Thunderbolt 3 out.

 

[trifid]

It would be better to go for something like the Sonnet eGFX enclosure, and then pair it with your own GPU card. - Although, currently there are no eGPU setups that support a Thunderbolt display like the black magic eGPU offering does.

Check out Max Yuryev's review:

I'm torn on this one, one thing I love about the Blackmagic and that sets it apart from others is that is dead on almost silent even under load, it's using the same engineering that Apple used on the 2013 Mac Pro, single large fan on a heatsink 'core'.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Thank you for that, I'm reading through that now. Does Apple sell the same GPU as in the iMac as an external GPU? It appears that way based on their product page below:

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HM8Y2VC/A/blackmagic-egpu

Of course, they also sell a $1,200 one as well.

I would recommend the Sonnet Technology eGFX Breakaway Box 650. It costs $399. It has a 650 watt PSU and full 85w USB-PD charging. You can then get an AMD Radeon RX570/8GB for as low as $159 or an RX580/8GB for as low as $179. If that is all you need now, the larger PSU will accommodate a Vega 56 or Vega 64 in the future or (hopefully) 7nm Vega Instinct next year. So you can start out economical, keep the box and then upgrade to something beefier later if you need it. Does it look as cool as the BlackMagic? No. However, a Vega 64 w/eGFX 650 can be bought for around $850 total, saving $350 for third party DRAM. Just thinking out loud.
[doublepost=1541276812][/doublepost]

What do you mean by "support a Thunderbolt Display"? Don't all the eGPU setups allow output to a 4K or 5K display (or multiple displays)? What is the point otherwise?

No, the LG UltraFine 4K (USB-C) and 5K (TB3) requires those ports (USB-C and TB3, respectively to connect to your computer. A fancy eGPU with DP1.4 and/or HDMI 2.0 will not support those displays.

If someone is referring to Apple’s old 27” Thunderbolt Display, you can connect that via a TB3–>TB2 adapter to a TB3 port on your Mac. It cannot do DisplayPort or HDMI either.

 

[rmendol1]

I agree that there’s an apple tax. And you’re going to pay a bit more to be in Apple’s ecosystem. But I don’t get why people ignore the fact that not all of that price difference is just to the “apple tax.” Apple does not charge for their operating system. It comes free with your machine. And you’re going to get free upgrades to that operating system. If you build a Windows machine, you’re going to have to buy the operating system. That eats up half of that $200 price difference you’re talking about.... and more if you count subsequent Windows versions.
Apple chose to incorporate a lot of those expsenses in their machine purchase prices. Developing a good OS isn’t free, or cheap.

Most $500 HP/Dell PCs with the price difference are already going to include Windows 10. Mac OS development cost is one of the reasons a comparable spec Mac is going to cost $300-350 more, it’s not really free.

 

[Spectrum]

The Blackmagic eGPU has a thunderbolt 3 output to support the LG Ultrafine 4K/5K display. An eGPU setup comprising of a Sonnet eGFX enclosure and AMD Vega 64 GPU (for example) would only support 4K/5K display with HDMI/Display Port connections. - As far as I am aware, there are currently no GPU cards that support Thunderbolt 3 out.

So basically, any 2018 Mac mini owner that also buys an LG ultrafine, and later decides they need better graphics acceleration, has only one option at this point: the Black Magic all in one (and pro version)?

 

[Zdigital2015]

Apple has turned off most anyone who wants to play a Steam game. 40 million online simultaneously. This mini has zero gaming Steam cred.

I am reasonably sure that exactly zero personnel at Apple loses any sleep over that particular circumstance, but I digress.

 

[Spectrum]

I would recommend the Sonnet Technology eGFX Breakaway Box 650. It costs $399. It has a 650 watt PSU and full 85w USB-PD charging. You can then get an AMD Radeon RX570/8GB for as low as $159 or an RX580/8GB for as low as $179. If that is all you need now, the larger PSU will accommodate a Vega 56 or Vega 64 in the future or (hopefully) 7nm Vega Instinct next year. So you can start out economical, keep the box and then upgrade to something beefier later if you need it. Does it look as cool as the BlackMagic? No. However, a Vega 64 w/eGFX 650 can be bought for around $850 total, saving $350 for third party DRAM. Just thinking out loud.
[doublepost=1541276812][/doublepost]
No, the LG UltraFine 4K (USB-C) and 5K (TB3) requires those ports (USB-C and TB3, respectively to connect to your computer. A fancy eGPU with DP1.4 and/or HDMI 2.0 will not support those displays.

If someone is referring to Apple’s old 27” Thunderbolt Display, you can connect that via a TB3–>TB2 adapter to a TB3 port on your Mac. It cannot do DisplayPort or HDMI either.

Thanks for the clarification. Well at the moment my 2011 mini displaays are a 27 inch 2560x1440 (DisplayPort) and 24 inch 1920x1200 (HDMI). So in theory they should work as well or better as I have now (HD3000) with the new UHD630.
But in th future, if I go 4K or 5K (or 8K?) I may look into an eGPU.

 

[Zdigital2015]

So basically, any 2018 Mac mini owner that also buys an LG ultrafine, and later decides they need better graphics acceleration, has only one option at this point: the Black Magic all in one (and pro version)?

As long as the GPU has a USB-C port on the back, you can hook it up. Right now, I think there is exactly one GPU card that has a USB-C port on it, but I cannot remember who sells it.

You can pick an UltraFine 4K for $200-$270 on factory refurb via Amazon/Woot if you play your cards right.
[doublepost=1541280094][/doublepost]

Thanks for the clarification. Well at the moment my 2011 mini displaays are a 27 inch 2560x1440 (DisplayPort) and 24 inch 1920x1200 (HDMI). So in theory they should work as well or better as I have now (HD3000) with the new UHD630.
But in th future, if I go 4K or 5K (or 8K?) I may look into an eGPU.

Well, since you are pushing @1x (non-Retina) resolutions with both displays, so you should be golden.

If you have lived with an Intel HD3000 for this long, the UHD 630, while not a dream come true, is going to go a fine job day in and day out. The added benefit of QuickSync 10-bit HEVC hardware encode/decode will be a very welcome thing.

I push 4K all day long with my 2015 15” MacBook Pro w/Iris Pro 5200, so I do not anticipate 4K being that big a deal with the UHD 630 either.

 

[obiwan]

So basically, any 2018 Mac mini owner that also buys an LG ultrafine, and later decides they need better graphics acceleration, has only one option at this point: the Black Magic all in one (and pro version)?

More or less. The exception to this would be if they only wanted the eGPU to offload graphics processing (like when using a video editor for instance, by making use of external GPU horse power). This is in contrast to wanting to accelerate the display itself (like for playing 3D games etc.) where the actual display needs to be connected directly to the eGPU in order for the graphics to be accelerated.

It's still pretty early days for eGPUs, so it depends on the software implementation, and how developers decide to make use of the eGPU. - This is my understanding anyway.
[doublepost=1541281769][/doublepost]

I'm torn on this one, one thing I love about the Blackmagic and that sets it apart from others is that is dead on almost silent even under load, it's using the same engineering that Apple used on the 2013 Mac Pro, single large fan on a heatsink 'core'.

Yeah - that is pretty nice, I must admit. The Sonnet eGFX box is pretty quiet, and although the fan isn't obtrusive, it's not silent. It's also not quite as good looking.

 

[HalfNelson]

Take a look at the ASUS VivoMini. They can be configured with a PCIe 512GB SSD, 8 GB RAM and an i3 for under $500.

https://smile.amazon.com/UN65U-M023M-VivoMini-Barebones-i3-7100U-integrated/dp/B06WV7NB95/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541185655&sr=1-1&keywords=asus+vivomini&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin:2289794011
[doublepost=1541185838][/doublepost]

No, that's good for a $500 computer.

https://smile.amazon.com/UN65U-M023M-VivoMini-Barebones-i3-7100U-integrated/dp/B06WV7NB95/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541185655&sr=1-1&keywords=asus+vivomini&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin:2289794011

Why is there any expectation that a Mac should cost the same as a PC? Macs are built by one of the most respected computer companies in the world, with some of the highest quality control, and after purchase support, in existence. Comparing raw components to the turn-key, complete package, you get when buying an Apple computer, seems disingenuous at best. Even if you could build a machine, spec for spec, with the same component/engineering/build quality, but with Windows 10 and the corresponding ecosystem, what would you be willing to pay for MacOS and the experience of the Apple ecosystem? I wouldn’t hesitate to drop an additional $200 for a significantly better, day to day, computing experience.

 

[LancesUK]

I honestly don't understand the allure of the mini for existing Mac users. It's too expensive to be a reasonable media server choice, too under-powered to be a pro workstation, and obviously lacks the portability of a laptop. It honestly seems like most experienced users would be better off with either waiting until Apple releases new Pro towers or going an entirely different route for their particular needs.

I find it interesting that nobody remembers audio and music users. I’ve been relying on the 2012 quadcore mini for ages now, and the 2014 model was the biggest blow Apple ever dropped on us. Audio does not require dedicated graphics. Audio guys usually place an analogue desk or DAW controller between the keyboard and the monitor. Try working on a 5K iMac from almost a meter away. Not an easy task, I can tell you. Try placing a TV behind a tall iMac. Not the ideal position, either.

The mini allows us to run larger TVs as monitors and don’t force us to pay for stuff we don’t need, such as 5K displays or dedicated graphics. Pro audio users need lots of cores AND as high as possible single core performance. That’s why the cheesegraters are now getting long in the tooth, as they struggle to keep up with the latest generation of VIs. Even one instance of something like U-he’s Repro 5 can bring an old Xeon to its knees today. Or a nice plate reverb from Waves. The single core perfomance simply isn’t there for real time performance and low latency at the same time.

Not every pro user works with video or needs a gorgeous 5K display, although every youtube reviewer will certainly focus only on Finalcut, Photoshop and Premiere for sure. That’s annoying and incredibly biased.

For every music producer, the mini is the perfect glove: very powerful machine without the things we already have or don’t need. Even the iMac pro hasn’t been popular amongst audio users, as most of what is offers is video oriented an useless to us, while also been insanely expensive.

I will be selling my 2012 mini and getting this new 6 core i7 soon. Even throttling doesn’t really matter for us, as long before a chip throttles, the audio would be experiencing drop outs, usually at 90% of maximum workload. We only need 100% CPU power for short periods of time, ie bouncing a track to the final mix, usually a 1-2 minutes task, done offline (no real-time audio being played). I’m sure the mini can handle this. I’m a happy pro in 2018

 

[HalfNelson]

And 10X faster ethernet if you get the 10 Gbit option for +$100. That's something I'm looking forward to.

Is that backwards compatible with non-10gb networks? I’m thinking of that upgrade for resale value/future proofing only, and have no need of it now.

 

[citysnaps]

Is that backwards compatible with non-10gb networks? I’m thinking of that upgrade for resale value/future proofing only, and have no need of it now.

It is. It’s characterized as NBASE-T and automatically handles 1, 2.5, 5, and 10 Gbits/sec rates.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Is that backwards compatible with non-10gb networks? I’m thinking of that upgrade for resale value/future proofing only, and have no need of it now.

Yes it’s compatible with 1Gb Ethernet as well as 2.5Gb, 5Gb and 10Gb. I don’t think it supports the old 10/100 Mb/sec though, I’m sure someone here knows, maybe they’ll chime in.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Is that backwards compatible with non-10gb networks? I’m thinking of that upgrade for resale value/future proofing only, and have no need of it now.

Yes.

 

[brdeveloper]

With all the excitement about the "desktop class" Minis, I was expecting a geekbench score touching 30000 on the higher end configuration. If it matches a Macbook Pro score, why would they use desktop processors? Bigger profit margins?