First Mac-Mini

[iluvmacs99]

This comparison is meaningless as I don't believe I ever saw anyone make such a comparison. The comparison is between the Seagate Momentus XT (or like drives) and a modern day SSD. In such comparisons SSDs beat the Seagate Momentus XT hands down. Unless $/GB or the highest capacity in a 2.5" form factor is a compelling factor I don't know why one would opt for a spinning hard drive over a SATA SSD in a 2009 Mac Mini (or most other consumer based PCs). You have yet to make the case for it.

I think I did. I stayed on topic as the OP was only willing to upgrade if the hard drive he is replacing in the Mini is larger than stock, which was 320GB. I merely addressed what the OP had outlined and what other options can be deployed to see some real benefits, while some of you are suggesting different computers and smaller SSD sizes which are off topic I think to the Mini 2009. While the Momentus XT was slower by a few seconds compared to a true SSD and that is to be expected, it is not by much but you do get 4 to 6x more storage space than a SSD for the same price point. There is no need to run 2 drives (1 SSD and 1 spinning platter.

But then again, it is your money you can spend it on what you like.

 

[defjam]

I think I did. I stayed on topic as the OP was only willing to upgrade if the hard drive he is replacing in the Mini is larger than stock, which was 320GB. I merely addressed what the OP had outlined and what other options can be deployed to see some real benefits, while some of you are suggesting different computers and smaller SSD sizes which are off topic I think to the Mini 2009. While the Momentus XT was slower by a few seconds compared to a true SSD and that is to be expected, it is not by much but you do get 4 to 6x more storage space than a SSD for the same price point. There is no need to run 2 drives (1 SSD and 1 spinning platter.

Can you please provide a link to a new Momentus XT (or similar) hard disk which costs less than $100 for 1TB of storage capacity? I can pick up plenty of ~1TB SSDs for under $100, several of them are name brand.

If we are to follow Eric's criteria of purchasing larger than already installed one can pick up a 480GB SSD for $46. It appears he's already found a brand (Zheino) he's happy with for a couple of dollars more (for a 512GB model).

Finally, are you aware your video dates back to 2010? Back in 2010 a hybrid drive was a lot more compelling. One might even build the case it was compelling in 2017 (or maybe even 2018). SSD prices have decreased signficiantly over the past year and what made sense in 2010 doesn't make as much sense today.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Can you please provide a link to a new Momentus XT (or similar) hard disk which costs less than $100 for 1TB of storage capacity? I can pick up plenty of ~1TB SSDs for under $100, several of them are name brand.

If we are to follow Eric's criteria of purchasing larger than already installed one can pick up a 480GB SSD for $46. It appears he's already found a brand (Zheino) he's happy with for a couple of dollars more (for a 512GB model).

Finally, are you aware your video dates back to 2010? Back in 2010 a hybrid drive was a lot more compelling. One might even build the case it was compelling in 2017 (or maybe even 2018). SSD prices have decreased signficiantly over the past year and what made sense in 2010 doesn't make as much sense today.

The successor to the Momentus XT is the Seagate Firecuda drives.

Seagate FireCuda 1TB Solid State Hybrid Drive Performance SSHD – 2.5 Inch SATA 6GB/s Flash Accelerated for Gaming PC Laptop - Frustration Free Packaging (ST1000LX015)

Ideal for consoles, gaming laptops and mini PCs, FireCuda SATA SSHD hard drives feature SSD performance and HDD capacities. Enjoy 7200 RPM speeds for a faster, seamless gaming experience—from loading maps to booting levels. Choose from a variety of speeds and cache for an optimized rig and enjoy ...

www.amazon.com

Prices around $50-59 US, which is roughly about half the price of a 1Tb Samsung EVO or Crucial brands.

It's still being used today and still makes sense the same way as it was used 10 years ago and the technology of the Firecuda had improved significantly to keep up, slightly slower, than the Samsung EVO which is considered one of the best SSDs money can buy.

I only showed the 10 year old video to keep ON TOPIC as we are discussing a 10 year old Mac Mini 2009, so therefore everything should be relevant to about 10 years ago. Just because you introduce a 2019 SSD drive on the Mini 2009 does not make it a 2019 computer like a Mac Mini 2018 does.

 

[timidpimpin]

Those Firecuda's are pretty much the most unreliable drive in modern computer history. Please stop... you're embarassing yourself.

 

[defjam]

The successor to the Momentus XT is the Seagate Firecuda drives.

Seagate FireCuda 1TB Solid State Hybrid Drive Performance SSHD – 2.5 Inch SATA 6GB/s Flash Accelerated for Gaming PC Laptop - Frustration Free Packaging (ST1000LX015)

Ideal for consoles, gaming laptops and mini PCs, FireCuda SATA SSHD hard drives feature SSD performance and HDD capacities. Enjoy 7200 RPM speeds for a faster, seamless gaming experience—from loading maps to booting levels. Choose from a variety of speeds and cache for an optimized rig and enjoy ...

www.amazon.com

Prices around $50-59 US, which is roughly about half the price of a 1Tb Samsung EVO or Crucial brands.

Price is $60 (using your link) whereas a 1TB SSD can be had for $86:

Zheino S3 1TB SSD​

That's 25%, not 100%, more for a true SSD drive.

It's still being used today and still makes sense the same way as it was used 10 years ago and the technology of the Firecuda had improved significantly to keep up, slightly slower, than the Samsung EVO which is considered one of the best SSDs money can buy.

Unless absolute lowest cost or highest capacity is top priority then it doesn't make much sense today. Look, I fully understand where you're coming from and I was making similar arguments a couple of years ago. Today, with the reduction in cost for SSDs, that's all changed. SSDs have reached a $/GB point where anything other but special circumstances favor SSDs.

I only showed the 10 year old video to keep ON TOPIC as we are discussing a 10 year old Mac Mini 2009, so therefore everything should be relevant to about 10 years ago. Just because you introduce a 2019 SSD drive on the Mini 2009 does not make it a 2019 computer like a Mac Mini 2018 does.

This makes no sense. He should buy inferior, ten year old technology because the system in question is 10 years old?

 

[eyoungren]

Now in place.

Garage is still a work in progress, but compare to the previous pic of the rear-projection TV - which again will be the Mini's second display.

 

[defjam]

Now in place.

Garage is still a work in progress, but compare to the previous pic of the rear-projection TV - which again will be the Mini's second display.

That's your garage?

 

[weckart]

That's your garage?

I can relate

 

[eyoungren]

That's your garage?

Yes, as I said…a work in progress.



Both my wife and I grew up with our own rooms. When we got married our first place was a duplex (we had the rear house). We have always rented homes. Last year we bought a home.

We have the master together, she has her room for her stuff and I have my room for my stuff (mainly fantasy RPGs, computers, other hobbies/interests). Kids showed up in 2003 so that meant she gave up a room and I gave up a room.

That meant I defaulted to the garage and my wife currently has no room of her own. We are waiting for my son to go off to college (he graduates high school next year) and then she gets his room as recompense for all the years she gave up hers while I had the garage. When my daughter goes off to college, I get her room and the garage will become a garage.

Currently my wife is making do with the backyard. It's a very small backyard (which is great, because I hate yardwork) so I surrendered it to her as she has surrendered part of the front room.

The only downside is that I have to keep an area open in the garage for…stuff.

 

[timidpimpin]

I love those purple iMacs!

 

[eyoungren]

I love those purple iMacs!

84mb ram.

I can get it to run iTunes and play, but that's about as much as I can do. I removed OS9 when I got it. It's running Tiger.

 

[bobesch]

I do not dare to show any pictures of our garage ... 😱

But this is, how our TV & macmini run for a couple of years now, since DVBT1 went out of service ...
First, our 10y old Toshiba TV needed a mainboard replacement (got it from an ebay-seller for 50bucks),
then DVBT1 went offline, leaving all related favorite hardware and beloved habits of scheduled recording standing in the rain ...
Now, our end-2009 mac mini & that good old repaired TV & SoundSticks2 (WhoomWhomm) & special plug&play gadgets &USB-BlueRay/DVD-drives serve as our current multipurposemediadivice...
(it's like in a multimedia-bubble watching for the next big thing, before throwing money into it ...)
I did enjoy the wine, that came in that wooden box ...

 

[defjam]

That's your garage?

This comment was made in jest people, relax!

 

[eyoungren]

This comment was made in jest people, relax!

I got how you meant it.

I don't keep a normal garage.

 

[weckart]

I got how you meant it.

I don't keep a normal garage.

I see nothing strange there.

 

[macgeek18]

Lovely. Did you get the base 2.5GHz i5 or the 2.3GHz i7?

Just the i5 model. All I need for browsing and basic home stuff anyways.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Price is $60 (using your link) whereas a 1TB SSD can be had for $86:

Zheino S3 1TB SSD​

That's 25%, not 100%, more for a true SSD drive.


Unless absolute lowest cost or highest capacity is top priority then it doesn't make much sense today. Look, I fully understand where you're coming from and I was making similar arguments a couple of years ago. Today, with the reduction in cost for SSDs, that's all changed. SSDs have reached a $/GB point where anything other but special circumstances favor SSDs.


This makes no sense. He should buy inferior, ten year old technology because the system in question is 10 years old?

I think you may not be quite aware that this particular issue with the 2009 Mac Mini, which is why we are having a difference of opinion and I think your lack of experience working on the 2009 Mini shows. In fact, this particular issue was discussed in 2014 in this forum. Search for it and still valid as of 2019..

SOLVED: Mac Mini only runs 1.5 gigabit on SSD - Mac Mini Model A1283

Thanks @Dan for your suggestions. Sorry i did not accept your answer since I solved it myself. From my experience the NVidia SATA controller is not easy to deal with. But that is what the 2009 Mac Mini has. I have no problems with 2008 MacBookPs and 6Gb SSDs. They all autosense capable speed...

www.ifixit.com

The OP's Mac Mini 2009 has a Nvidia MCP79 SATA Controller which is "WELL KNOWN" to downgrade link speed with certain SSD drives from 3Gbps (SATA 2) to 1.5Gbps (SATA 1). It is not an issue with Mac Mini 2010 and beyond.

In 2014, it was determined in this forum that there were only a few drives that were compatible and they must have a Marvell controller built-in. That would be the Crucial MX500 series and the OCZ series. The most common SSD drives that you buy today would only have a link speed of 1.5Gbps. Are you sure the Zheino 1Tb SSD will positively give a linkspeed of 3Gbps with the Nvidia MCP 79 SATA controller? I like to know if you had physically tested it?

I have nothing against SSDs in general, but in keeping with the topic and with the OP's Mac Mini 2009, this Mini will downgrade link speed to SATA 1 of 1.5Gbps with some of the most popular SATA SSD drives out there. Both the Seagate Momentus XT and Firecuda series DO NOT suffer from this problem. It achieves a link speed of 3Gbps, which is SATA 2. While SSD provides almost instant accessibility, the SATA 1 issue meant that the incompatible SSD installed in this Mini 2009 will be restricted with SATA 1. That's why I said it's a waste and that's why I even noticed people Youtubing their modified Mini 2009 with the world's fastest SSD drive were in fact operating at SATA 1; not faster in terms of throughput compared to a stock hard drive or a proper SSD compatible with the Nvidia SATA controller on the Mini 2009, eventhough you can achieve a faster boot screen. You can mitigate this with a Marvel controller based SSD, but that is not as cheap as those other SSDs you most see often out there.

With the Seagate Momentus XT, you solved both problems. You have near instant boot speed like a SSD and yet it plays very nicely with the Nvidia MCP 79 SATA controller achieving FULL SATA 2 3Gbps throughput OS update after OS update with Minis and some Macbooks that have this Nvidia controller.

I mean I paid only $18 used for a 750Gb and is not inferior than say an incompatible new 2019 SATA 3 SSD drive that when hooked up to a Mini 2009 gives you only 1.5Gbps SATA 1 connection.

 

[timidpimpin]

I get full SATA 2 speeds on my 09 mini. You have no idea WTH you're talking about. Just have a look at my screenshot earlier in this thread, where I got 250MB read while multitasking. That's 100MB/sec above SATA 1 speed. You're really hell bent on embarassing yourself, aren't you?

 

[iluvmacs99]

I get full SATA 2 speeds on my 09 mini. You have no idea WTH you're talking about. Just have a look at my screenshot earlier in this thread, where I got 250MB read while multitasking. That's 100MB/sec above SATA 1 speed. You're really hell bent on embarassing yourself, aren't you?

You have a compatible SSD working with the Nvidia MCP79 SATA controller. You will "NOT" get full SATA 2 with some autosense SATA 3 drives. That's a fact with the Nvidia MCP 79 controller. It seemed to me that it is you that is hell bent to assert your own opinion as the only right opinion and it seemed to be the attitude of some of the respondents of this forum. that is to win in any argument while not respecting other difference in views and opinion.

 

[defjam]

I think you may not be quite aware that this particular issue with the 2009 Mac Mini, which is why we are having a difference of opinion and I think your lack of experience working on the 2009 Mini shows. In fact, this particular issue was discussed in 2014 in this forum. Search for it and still valid as of 2019..

SOLVED: Mac Mini only runs 1.5 gigabit on SSD - Mac Mini Model A1283

Thanks @Dan for your suggestions. Sorry i did not accept your answer since I solved it myself. From my experience the NVidia SATA controller is not easy to deal with. But that is what the 2009 Mac Mini has. I have no problems with 2008 MacBookPs and 6Gb SSDs. They all autosense capable speed...

www.ifixit.com

You can't say with any authority that a modern day SSD is guaranteed to experience this problem. You're quoting information from 2014 - 2015, we're one day away from turning the calendar to 2020. Even in 2014 - 2015 the problem was with certain controllers and not SSD technology itself (or your recommendations would exhibit the same issue). All you have demonstrated is there is a bug with the 2009 Mac Mini that could result in the negotiation of SATA-I link speeds. Key word there is "could".

As to your question about the Zheino drive: I have no idea. Until this weekend I had never even heard of it. However the OP has used them and stated he's happy with them. The only way to know would be to try it out. Other than it being an SSD do you have any reason to think it would negotiate SATA-I speeds instead of SATA-II?

IMO the benefit of SSDs comes from the increased random reads / writes SSDs are capable of. IMO most people using these older systems aren't pushing around tens, hundreds, or thousands of gigabytes in a single go. Thus SATA-I or SATA-II doesn't much matter for, IMO, the majority of cases.

If this should be a problem with the particular model SSD the OP may decide to use and if the OP is doing a significant amount of sequential reads / writes then this would be a reason to avoid using that particular model SSD and not a reason to avoid SSDs in general.
[automerge]1577740676[/automerge]

You have a compatible SSD working with the Nvidia MCP79 SATA controller. You will "NOT" get full SATA 2 with some autosense SATA 3 drives. That's a fact with the Nvidia MCP 79 controller. It seemed to me that it is you that is hell bent to assert your own opinion as the only right opinion and it seemed to be the attitude of some of the respondents of this forum. that is to win in any argument while not respecting other difference in views and opinion.

You've raised a potential issue the OP needs to be aware of. Unfortunately you're basing that issue off of older technology. While it is something to be aware of I'm not convinced it's the universal problem you've made it out to be. Especially, as was just pointed out by another poster, their SSD is operating at SATA-II speeds.

 

[iluvmacs99]

You can't say with any authority that a modern day SSD is guaranteed to experience this problem. You're quoting information from 2014 - 2015, we're one day away from turning the calendar to 2020. Even in 2014 - 2015 the problem was with certain controllers and not SSD technology itself (or your recommendations would exhibit the same issue). All you have demonstrated is there is a bug with the 2009 Mac Mini that could result in the negotiation of SATA-I link speeds. Key word there is "could".

As to your question about the Zheino drive: I have no idea. Until this weekend I had never even heard of it. However the OP has used them and stated he's happy with them. The only way to know would be to try it out. Other than it being an SSD do you have any reason to think it would negotiate SATA-I speeds instead of SATA-II?

IMO the benefit of SSDs comes from the increased random reads / writes SSDs are capable of. IMO most people using these older systems aren't pushing around tens, hundreds, or thousands of gigabytes in a single go. Thus SATA-I or SATA-II doesn't much matter for, IMO, the majority of cases.

If this should be a problem with the particular model SSD the OP may decide to use and if the OP is doing a significant amount of sequential reads / writes then this would be a reason to avoid using that particular model SSD and not a reason to avoid SSDs in general.

In 2019 and even in 2020, most SATA 3 drives today auto sense linkspeeds and so it is a controller issue itself with the Mini 2009 that would guarantee SATA II link speed on every reboot and boot.

In my experience, the Solid State Hybrid drive is a 8Gb solid state NAND disk that is equally capable of increased random reads/writes just like a pure SSD is capable of, except that it is only 8Gb in size. On benchmarks I ran using it in real life, the Momentus XT ran just a few seconds (like 3-5 secs not 3-5 minutes) behind a modern you can buy today SSD on my PowerMac G5 and my dad's Macbook 5,1 while benefiting more storage space with this hybrid drive, similar to. For most OS calls and application launching, it felt like you are working with a SSD.

Personal photos and movies are typically stored and moved to and from USB external storage or edited in iMovie or iPhoto/Photos app and stored in between drives (the Mini 2009 can support up to 2 internals when you removed the optical drive from the bay), and that's one of the main reasons I think people buy a Mac in the first place. Also storing movies, music and images all consume large sums of data and moving in between drives help when the linkspeed is higher between SATA ports.

I am merely offering a differing viewpoint and experience of what I had working with the Mini 2009 in my work place, and we have a few and I still need to refurb a few of them when I return to work. So it's not like I have zero experience. On the same token, I thought this is a community of Mac users who are respectful and allowing differing opinions and viewpoints to be presented and respect them as being different, rather than being bullied and corrected and forcefully accept the rightful one viewpoint. I am sure the OP's is a grown man and as a grown adult with many experiences, I think he can make his own choices what he wants to do with his Mini.

 

[defjam]

In 2019 and even in 2020, most SATA 3 drives today auto sense linkspeeds and so it is a controller issue itself with the Mini 2009 that would guarantee SATA II link speed on every reboot and boot.

All 2009 Mac Mini's have a maximum link speed of SATA-II. I'm unclear just what point it is you're attempting to make. Your last post discussed the possibility of negotiating SATA-I speeds. That all seems to have been forgotten in this response.

In my experience, the Solid State Hybrid drive is a 8Gb solid state NAND disk that is equally capable of increased random reads/writes just like a pure SSD is capable of, except that it is only 8Gb in size. On benchmarks I ran using it in real life, the Momentus XT ran just a few seconds (like 3-5 secs not 3-5 minutes) behind a modern you can buy today SSD on my PowerMac G5 and my dad's Macbook 5,1 while benefiting more storage space with this hybrid drive, similar to. For most OS calls and application launching, it felt like you are working with a SSD.

It is only capable of SSD speeds for the 8GB of data on the SSD portion of the drive. IMO this was a reasonable solution up until this past year. However SSD prices have dropped significantly where, IMO, a hybrid solution makes sense in one of two situations:

1. Where absolutely lowest $/GB is desired
2. Where highest storage capacity is desired

Are you arguing based on either of these two? Or are you arguing something else?

[ cut ]

I am merely offering a differing viewpoint and experience of what I had working with the Mini 2009 in my work place, and we have a few and I still need to refurb a few of them when I return to work. So it's not like I have zero experience. On the same token, I thought this is a community of Mac users who are respectful and allowing differing opinions and viewpoints to be presented and respect them as being different, rather than being bullied and corrected and forcefully accept the rightful one viewpoint. I am sure the OP's is a grown man and as a grown adult with many experiences, I think he can make his own choices what he wants to do with his Mini.

You were doing more than just offering a different point of view. You were being critical of people who were recommending a pure SSD solution. Claiming that you have all this experience and others do not. Claiming others lacked knowledge that you possessed (see your post numbered 67 for an example). You then went on to "prove" us wrong.

If you want to recommend a hyrbid drive solution I have no issues with it. In fact if this discussion was happening a year to two years ago I would have been supporting such a recommendation. But realize others feel a pure SSD offers all the benefits of the hybrid solution without the downsides (unless, IMO, they fall into one of the two categories above). So instead of telling us how wrong we are perhaps you could accept others points of view without criticizing them.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
A number of posts have been removed due to bickering, please stay on topic and be respectful.

 

[eyoungren]

8GB ram now.

Messed up the case a bit on the bottom trying to wedge the metal away from the plastic. Ripped the wire off one of the BT antennas (twice) necessitating re-soldering, which I am no good at. May have to pick up another Belkin BT adapter as I think I may have killed that particular antenna.

Ah well. 8GB ram.

 

[timidpimpin]

Nice upgrade! Just wondering... why not at least run El Capitan? It's fully supported, and is an evolution on Yosemite. IMO the best OS for these 09 mini is High Sierra, but that requires a patcher. But it's very easy to do.

It's 100% stable on mine, and performs better than any OS I have ever run on it. It will love that 8GB RAM. It also gets updates until late 2020. Yosemite hasn't had an update since 2017.

BTW... I doubt you broke the antenna. Those pop off the connector very easily. They're a pain to reconnect also, but not impossible or anything. The connector is also very tiny.