First Reviews of Microsoft Surface Pro: Good Display, Full Windows 8, Compromised Experience

[tbrinkma]

Microsoft Surface completely beats the iPad in terms of word processing application. I tried to use the Page with on-screen keyboard, but it is awkward in anyway.

Personally, I can use Pages with the onscreen keyboard just fine. Mind you, I tend to write in short bursts of 20-30 minutes at a time, mostly due to time constraints. I've considered buying a keyboard for it, but when I *do* end up writing for longer spans, I'm inevitably in front of my computer anyway. (The only feature I miss from the desktop version when I'm using the iPad version is the ability to edit styles. The full set of style options seem to work just fine when they're set up on the desktop version, but there isn't yet the ability to *change* them on the iPad.)

But, there are keyboards available for the iPad which are as good or better than either of the standard Surface options, including keyboard cases that don't involve carrying around a separate piece, and most of them will work perfectly well with the keyboard sitting on your lap, or holding the keyboard and iPad in one hand while you type with your other. (Personally, I think the onscreen keyboard is a better option in that scenario, though.)

 

[pundit]

So for someone today who already even owns one of the following:
1) iPad
2) MacBook
3) Windows desktop
4) Windows laptop
Is there any reason to get the Surface Pro?

If the Surface Pro does what any other tablet can, then if you have a tablet then you don't need it, and if you don't have a tablet, you can save money and get an iPad.

If you need to run Office software, then why not get an MBA?

If you need to run Windows software, why not get a windows laptop?

I guess if you don't any computer at all, maybe the Surface Pro would appeal, if you have some bizarre requirements such as an MBA is no good because you absolutely need to run Matlab BUT a Windows laptop is no good either for some reason (again, I'm thinking of these hypothetical users who need VB access in Excel and also a Wacom digitizer but cannot handle a laptop).

Otherwise, if I had $1000 I'd put it into any of the four options above first, instead of waiting for the Surface to actually be a better product.

None of those devices are good note paper replacements. Being able to just write stuff down and have it be digitized is a much bigger deal than you think... for a lot of people.

 

[vampyr]

I have to ask... what's the point of this device??

If battery life is the same, or worse than a laptop, then what market is this device supposed to be filling?

 

[AustinIllini]

I have to ask... what's the point of this device??

If battery life is the same, or worse than a laptop, then what market is this device supposed to be filling?

I think that's what a lot of Apple enthusiasts are saying. If I go ahead and list the things I want to do with my Macbook Pro vs the things I do with my iPad, the surface doesn't do anything better than either.

 

[Karma*Police]

One thing this Surface has, that the Air does not, is that touch-screen with a Wacom pen. That to me sounds like a strong selling point, at least to graphic artists. So many pressure-sensitive bluetooth pens are being made for the iPad, with varying success, but the Surface comes with the pen out of the box.

I think Apple would do well to include stylus support in iOS. But the implementation needs to be much better than what I've seen from the competition. It needs to be deeply integrated into the overall experience with support for pen gestures, handwriting and object recognition, etc. Just break open the vault to the Newton code and find a way to integrate that into iOS.

 

[Carouser]

I have to ask... what's the point of this device??

If battery life is the same, or worse than a laptop, then what market is this device supposed to be filling?

Apparently it's people who need a $1000 digitizing notepad (remember that this is a group of people for whom actual notepads, voice recorders, shorthand, keyboards, and iOS handwriting-to-txt apps don't meet their needs). I'm told this is a big deal for a lot of people, so I guess Microsoft hit it out of the ballpark for this market.

 

[samcraig]

Th surface sucks. It's a Frankenmachine built for the FrankenOS than is Windows 8.

So you've used it how extensively?

Apparently it's people who need a $1000 digitizing notepad.

What about the $999 ipad that just came out. Who's that for then?

 

[XVentura]

So for someone today who already even owns one of the following:
1) iPad
2) MacBook
3) Windows desktop
4) Windows laptop
Is there any reason to get the Surface Pro?

If the Surface Pro does what any other tablet can, then if you have a tablet then you don't need it, and if you don't have a tablet, you can save money and get an iPad.

If you need to run Office software, then why not get an MBA?

If you need to run Windows software, why not get a windows laptop?

I guess if you don't any computer at all, maybe the Surface Pro would appeal, if you have some bizarre requirements such as an MBA is no good because you absolutely need to run Matlab BUT a Windows laptop is no good either for some reason (again, I'm thinking of these hypothetical users who need VB access in Excel and also a Wacom digitizer but cannot handle a laptop).

Otherwise, if I had $1000 I'd put it into any of the four options above first, instead of waiting for the Surface to actually be a better product.

I agree. I agree that this first iteration isn't good enough. I am only speaking of the future, but the very near future. The future that will come after Haswell is released in June. That's pretty damn close to being here. By the end of this year, we'll see loads of hybrids being able to approximate 90% of what an iPad and MBA does. And that's when people's opinions will change.

You won't be able to ask that question in a year's time because the question will be 'why pay $2000 to get two separate devices when I can pay $1000 to get one device that can do 90% of what I want it to do?'

The comfort that comes from having only one device and the much lower price that comes with it will affect a lot of people when they have to decide whether they're going to invest in a new MBA and a new iPad or just go with Surface 2 or the equivalent from another OEM.

 

[pundit]

Apparently it's people who need a $1000 digitizing notepad.

Clover Trail models run about $600. If you want to run Photoshop, Illustrator or something, that's when you need to drop $1000 on that.

 

[Renzatic]

Windows has always had problems with resolution and UI scaling. That's why I don't want 1080p, the desktop UI looks tiny.

That's not true. Windows has always been better at UI scaling than OSX. All you have to do is go into your display settings and up the DPI resolution of the screen to make all the elements larger.

As for the Surface, my opinion is that it has it's uses, but what we're looking at here is too much of a half-step forward, and a bunch of good ideas not implemented well enough for me to consider one yet.

First, Windows is eating too much space. Win8 is around 15GB installed by itself. That's too large. Add in the equally as large recovery partition, and you're using up half your storage space for just for the OS alone. MS needs to trim the fat from Windows. Get it down from 15GB to 6-8GB like OSX, and provide the recovery partition on a thumb drive, completely separate from the machine itself.

The battery life is too short. It doesn't matter than it's a full powered x86 ultrabook, people expect at least 6-8 hours of usage out of their machines these days. Giving everyone a powerful machine, then throwing in a battery smaller than what you get on the iPad isn't going to do anyone any favors.

Haswell and a larger battery will do wonders in this regard, but we won't be seeing tablets come out with that architecture for another 8 months or so at least.

Windows 8 is still too much desktop for a tablet. It's nice having access to full powered apps in a tablet form factor, but you know what'd be nicer? Full powered apps built around touch and stylus input. This is something we'll likely be seeing more of in the near future, but...well...you gotta start somewhere.

A desktop for laptops, and touch for tablets. MS can do this with one OS, but Win8 isn't quite there yet. Right now it's tablet mode for little mobile apps, the desktop for anyone needing a bit of power. I want both.

So what is the Surface to me? The start of a good idea, but not a good idea in and of itself just yet. I see a lot of potential here, and I hope MS finds their niche, because I want to see how this'll expand with a little more TLC and time spent refining the experience.

...I'm just not ready to pick one up yet.

 

[Carouser]

Clover Trail models run about $600. If you want to run Photoshop, Illustrator or something, that's when you need to drop $1000 on that.

Okay, so the Surface Pro is for people who need a $600 handwriting digitizer AND who need to run Photoshop or something on the same tablet, I see.

In other words, the Surface Pro is a great fit for the tons of people whose needs are cherry picked to match the Surface Pro.

 

[AnonMac50]

so if you put en engine from BMW M6 into some Chevrolet mini van, you're going to say that the Mini van is actually a sports coupe?

Not if you can't change its appearance to look like one (and the surface can be made to look enough like a laptop).

----------

Although the 64gb iPad still has more actual storage than the 128gb surface

I wish...

 

[pundit]

Okay, so the Surface Pro is for people who need a $600 handwriting digitizer AND who need to run Photoshop or something on the same tablet, I see.

In other words, the Surface Pro is a great fit for the tons of people whose needs are cherry picked to match the Surface Pro.

Or run any of about a billion other x86 applications with i5 performance in a much more portable and flexible way than a laptop, yeah.

 

[tigress666]

It really is. The touch screen laptop is truly something to behold, especially when it functions as a tablet as well. I've tried the Surface more than a few times, and I'm considering picking up the Pro version.

No, the touchscreen laptop is stupid!!!!! It's awkward to be having to hold your hand up to move things on the screen for long periods of time. It's a helluva lot less efficient (more movement than if you had a mouse or even a trackpad and you have to move your hand off the keyboard more) so you'll take longer and get tired quicker. Back in the pre OSX days I was a bigger mac fanatic than I am now (or rather a more closed minded one) and even I had to admit that Windows got it right by making it so everything had a keyboard shortcut so you didn't have to move your hands off the keyboard. The less you have to move your hands off the keyboard the more efficient you can be. Meaning you'll get stuff done faster. And the less hand movements you have to make also makes things more efficient (you can cover more screen with less area covered with the mouse/trackpad translation of your movements than having to move it across the screen yourself).

For a tablet that lies flat on the table or your lap it works fine. But when you are talking a device that holds the screen up for you that makes it awkward. And honestly for working long periods having the screen in front of you rather than lying on a table is better as well (no crick in your neck from looking down).

The tablet has its place, but it is not a replacement for a laptop/computer (Even my mom who is the ideal ipad customer told me she still finds some uses for the computer her tablet doesn't fill).

 

[samcraig]

Okay, so the Surface Pro is for people who need a $600 handwriting digitizer AND who need to run Photoshop or something on the same tablet, I see.

In other words, the Surface Pro is a great fit for the tons of people whose needs are cherry picked to match the Surface Pro.

So we understand why you don't want one or would use one. But you seem not to understand the market that does. That seems like your problem/issue.

When you can explain to me why someone would spent 1K on an iPad vs a MBA, please do.

After that - maybe you can tell me how someone that wants to run a full version of word and still have a touch screen interface/portable device for their media streaming/book reading/etc without HAVING to have a keyboard connected all the time - do let me know.

Again - I haven't used the Surface or have any interest in it. But that doesn't mean I'm going to insist there's no use case for it or that there isn't a market for it.

 

[Renzatic]

But, there are keyboards available for the iPad which are as good or better than either of the standard Surface options, including keyboard cases that don't involve carrying around a separate piece, and most of them will work perfectly well with the keyboard sitting on your lap, or holding the keyboard and iPad in one hand while you type with your other. (Personally, I think the onscreen keyboard is a better option in that scenario, though.)

If I were to get one, I'd consider foregoing the keyboard cover at first, and using my Apple keyboard with it instead. I think the cover setup is good for an on the go option, but isn't something I'd want to use for extended periods of time. For that, I'd want as close to a real keyboard as I can get.

 

[Squilly]

I agree. This is a "Version 1.0." Haswell ought to allow for thinner, lighter designs. There may well be a market for a "toasterfridge" device in the future. Hopefully Apple is paying close attention and doesn't miss market signals the way it did with larger phones.

Apple isn't one to hop on the bandwagon though. They're the ones that create the bandwagon.

 

[Carouser]

Or run any of about a billion other x86 applications with i5 performance in a much more portable and flexible way than a laptop, yeah.

Right, all those people running applications which don't exist on current tablet platforms but who are currently hamstrung by the portability and flexibility limitations of a laptop. Such as:

1) Window-washers doing AutoCAD work
2) Scuba divers modelling chemical interactions
3) Bounty hunters who need to render 3D animation during a chase
etc.

Again, if anybody has $1000 to spend on computing I fail to see how the Surface Pro is particularly compelling given the alternatives (Apple and non-Apple alike).

 

[blucable]

In order for the pressure sensitive table to be any good for serious artists it would have to be bigger than 10". My wife does work on 1.2GB photoshop files and her 21" Cintiq doesn't even feel big enough.

Microsofts tablet is too expensive to be a toy and too diminutive to be a production machine. I can't think of anything serious that I'd want to do on a 10" M$ tablet. If it's something quick like browsing/email then an iPad would be better. If it something serious like graphic design or programming then I want a bigger screen.

I so agree with this

 

[samcraig]

Apple isn't one to hop on the bandwagon though. They're the ones that create the bandwagon.

Right. Because there weren't other MP3 players before the iPod? There weren't other 7" tablets before the iPad Mini? And so on.

Keep telling yourself they don't hop on a bandwagon. They do. Steve admitted so. The "magic" is in that they improve upon that bandwagon.

 

[ElTorro]

No, the touchscreen laptop is stupid!!!!! It's awkward to be having to hold your hand up to move things on the screen for long periods of time. It's a helluva lot less efficient (more movement than if you had a mouse or even a trackpad and you have to move your hand off the keyboard more) so you'll take longer and get tired quicker. Back in the pre OSX days I was a bigger mac fanatic than I am now (or rather a more closed minded one) and even I had to admit that Windows got it right by making it so everything had a keyboard shortcut so you didn't have to move your hands off the keyboard. The less you have to move your hands off the keyboard the more efficient you can be. Meaning you'll get stuff done faster. And the less hand movements you have to make also makes things more efficient (you can cover more screen with less area covered with the mouse/trackpad translation of your movements than having to move it across the screen yourself).

For a tablet that lies flat on the table or your lap it works fine. But when you are talking a device that holds the screen up for you that makes it awkward. And honestly for working long periods having the screen in front of you rather than lying on a table is better as well (no crick in your neck from looking down).

The tablet has its place, but it is not a replacement for a laptop/computer (Even my mom who is the ideal ipad customer told me she still finds some uses for the computer her tablet doesn't fill).

You clearly haven't used a touchscreen laptop or desktop yet. It's very nice to use whatever input you wish. As good as the modern multitouch touchpads are, they are still not providing the same experience as touching the screen itself.

It is nice to have the choice of touch or traditional input.

And another thing. I bet your opinion would be completly different if it was Apple who had a touchscreen laptop. It would be the best thing ever, right?

 

[Renzatic]

It is nice to have the choice of touch or traditional input.

Boom! This right here! Having the option to use something never killed anyone.

If you don't like using a touchscreen on a laptop, then don't use it. You still have plenty of other ways to interact with your machine. But if you do? Well, there it is right in front of you. Go to town.

 

[AnonMac50]

Just as an FYI, Office for Mac is HORRIBLE compared to the Windows version. On many levels.

I can't even type in Arabic!! And VB support, while back again, isn't that good. And it is slower than the Windows version when doing calculations. By a lot! And the list goes on and on.

The only better thing about Office:Mac is that it has a menu bar still.

 

[tigress666]

You clearly haven't used a touchscreen laptop or desktop yet. It's very nice to use whatever input you wish. As good as the modern multitouch touchpads are, they are still not providing the same experience as touching the screen itself.

It is nice to have the choice of touch or traditional input.

And another thing. I bet your opinion would be completly different if it was Apple who had a touchscreen laptop. It would be the best thing ever, right?

No, honestly I was frikkin relieved when Jobs actually expressed exactly why I dislike the idea and was feeling threatened by all the people saying that eventually Apple was going to move this way. Gives me hope they won't move in this direction. I like so far how Apple has done it but I do worry that they want to do something like that but they're just being more smart about how they push it (doing it in waves rather than one big push). But so far they seem to realize they need to work on good UI, not just push something out cause it is gimmicky (I like the full trackpad and gestures on the trackpad, it means I'm moving my hands around less and makes things run smoother as I'm not trying to move a mouse all the way over to the button to do it, just a gesture and I'm done).

And while it would be gimmicky to have the choice, sorry, I can already foresee that as long as I had a choice I'd only use the touch screen when the device was new (I have never felt the urge to just touch my screen, and I do have an ipad and an iphone. And no, my ipad hasn't replaced my laptop and I still think it's more a toy than a laptop replacement. And I have a keyboard for it and it is still awkward to use to have to touch the screen while using the keyboard. Not even worth it so I barely use the keyboard anymore cause it's just awkward. Part of that is a crummy keyboard, but I also find it very awkward to have to use the touch screen while I'm using the keyboard and having the ipad propped up kinda like you would a laptop rather than a mouse or trackpad).

Just cause it's "new" doesn't make it better. Instead of jumping on every new technology thing cause it's new and exciting, I'd like people to actually think on if it actually improves on anything or solves a problem. I've never felt like, "Oh, I wish I could touch my screen and move stuff."

 

[BornAgainMac]

There's a big reason that this device could sell to a specific market. OFFICE.

Yes - you can get a laptop. But if you want a tablet interface AND to have all the functionality of Office (except Outlook I believe) - this is your option. And for some - it's invaluable.

I'm not advocating this is a good/great device. I'm just saying there's a market. I know that no app or alternative to Office allows for the full functionality of Track Changes that Word has. And unless that changes - there are plenty of business users that can/will only use Office. You really can't even argue against that point.

What about for the Techie? Currently there is no tablet that I can install Oracle, SQL Server, or run Virtual environments. I could think of hundreds of uses as an advanced user. The Office user will settle for an iPad or Google docs. There is not equivalent for a Techie on the tablet. Too bad that is less than 1% of the market.