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First Third-Party SSD With Native OS X TRIM Support Launched by Angelbird

Gav Mack said:
Errm it does though signed drivers have to be disabled. Cindori the developer of Trim Enabler has posted just before you :D
Click to expand...

Ermm...if you have to disable a security feature that could potentially allow malicious code to be executed on your machine then I wouldn't really call that working. They themselves said that doing so isn't ideal for most users.

Besides, the main point of my post was that any SSD sold within the last 2-3 years likely doesn't need TRIM support anyhow.
 
GC is not a replacement for TRIM. Without TRIM, the GC process does not know which blocks are unreferenced by the filesystem and therefore which blocks it can ignore. Without TRIM, on a filesystem with a lot of write activity, the SSD will eventually reach the point where it will always operate at slower write speeds. GC without TRIM can also lower the lifetime of the disk because the GC will repeatedly end up operating on blocks that it would not if TRIM were enabled.

Remember, without TRIM, the disk firmware has to assume that all blocks that have been written to at least once are still in use.

Edit: here is a blog post on the subject: http://intelligent.media.seagate.com/2013/05/01/did-you-know-hdds-do-not-have-a-delete-command-that-is-why-ssds-need-trim/
 
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This is getting ridiculous from Apple to block such a basic feature on third party SSD. Shame on them for this. It's supported by all other OS (not most advanced operating system!). Seriously, this is a bad joke. Enough is enough at some point...
 
This is just another way of "locking Apple users in"...

Sometimes i wonder if the company can actually move forward... :rolleyes: Even my old 2012 MBP I could use Third Party SSD drives.

This "lock in" must be some sort of "since they eliminate the case and move the chips directly onto the board kind of issue... :p

Kind of says to third parties... "We can do it best."

Ya right... U didn't even give em a chance.
 
theelysium said:
wholly hell,, I don't know there was an issue with SSD TRIM on macs! I've been shopping for a drive for months unaware of the issue.
Click to expand...

It affects all SSD's, but seems performance is one factor we all want regardless of how "limited" these drives are.

And in an thin ultabook, well, u don't really have a choice.
 
Apple really should open TRIM to all SSDs, and not just Apple ones.

We shouldn't need. 3rd party utility in this day and age. No offense to Trim Enabler. For that matter, they should have a way for 3rd parties to create signed extensions with a review process to ensure they are misbehaving.
 
shabanga said:
Ermm...if you have to disable a security feature that could potentially allow malicious code to be executed on your machine then I wouldn't really call that working. They themselves said that doing so isn't ideal for most users.

Besides, the main point of my post was that any SSD sold within the last 2-3 years likely doesn't need TRIM support anyhow.
Click to expand...

Having worked on SSD systems that don't support trim or ATA devices in linux boxes I disagree - they need to be backed up, zeroed and restored about every year but it depends on usage. Server systems, power users, and those with insufficient RAM which pages to disk more hence may need it even sooner.

My whole point is that apple should add third party strings to their ahci driver to enable trim along with the kext restrictions lifted. If you read the thread Cindori linked you will find my comments about security are in a lot more detail as I've seen first hand what happens to Windows systems and the rise of the rootkit.

We can all start by sending feedback to Apple like I've already done on that thread..

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uhaas said:
Apple really should open TRIM to all SSDs, and not just Apple ones.

We shouldn't need. 3rd party utility in this day and age. No offense to Trim Enabler. For that matter, they should have a way for 3rd parties to create signed extensions with a review process to ensure they are misbehaving.
Click to expand...

For security I actually agree with Apple having the ahci stack private - that is the primary hook that rootkits use in Windows with iastor and msahci. They simply have to add the list of allowed device ID's that are non Apple and proven to work.

The fact that my MBP 2011 never had an option of a 1tb SSD when sold, neither did my Mac Pro makes this blocking of non Apple devices to boot with trim enabled an absolute farce.
 
inscrewtable said:
I installed a crucial MX100 512GB in a mac mini and it only took a press of a button with trim enabler to enable trim, what's the big deal with pressing a button, especially when it saves you $90 over the anglebird.. The mx is faster than my 2013rmbp.
Click to expand...

10.10 and newer do not work with kext hacks like TRIM Enabler.

TRIM Enabler is best for 10.6-10.9.

However, like some others have points out, a good SandForce drive + extra over-provisioning works just fine without TRIM.

Myself and others have been using this setup for years.

We use OWC, SanDisk Extreme, Mushkin Chronos Enhanced, and Intel 530 SSDs.

The only time we use something else is when someone "demands" more space, then we go to the 750GB or 1TB Samsung 840 EVO. I warn them about long-term write performance. Then again, an SSD in "dire" need of TRIM is still a LOT faster than a perfectly-functioning HDD.
 
Mark-Technology said:
Samsung is the best consumer SSD brand and has been for the last 3 years. If you've got the money, go for the 850 Pro otherwise 840 Evo is still better than the other brands. Don't worry about trim; you can use trim enabler for that and these drives have excellent garbage collection management regardless.
Click to expand...

TRIM and garbage collection are different technologies. SSDs can only clear memory a cluster at a time, which means that in order to do so, it has to compact the data as much as possible by moving data out of clusters, so it can free up as much space as possible. This is garbage collection. Without TRIM, the garbage collector will end up moving free blocks around, due to not knowing that those blocks have been freed.
 
And of course 10.10.1 will address this "issue" and detect and disable support for these drives.

Apple is pretty efficient at shutting down competition.
 
TitaniumTiti said:
This is getting ridiculous from Apple to block such a basic feature on third party SSD. Shame on them for this. It's supported by all other OS (not most advanced operating system!). Seriously, this is a bad joke. Enough is enough at some point...
Click to expand...

this exactly. I've been a Mac user since 2001 and this kinda stuff is tempting me to look at other systems, mainly linux.

Funny how when OS X launched one of its focus points was the openness of Unix.

tbh I'm just waiting for my 2012 cMBP to die and I will probably move on - I really dislike not being able to upgrade the newer machines.
 
I am getting pretty fed up with Apple insatiable thirst for locking everything down, I made the switch to apple 10 years ago,
But i am seriously considering to start slowly switching, Here are my reasons :

ultra premium price, it is Ok when apple devices used to last for ever, but now my iPhone 4s has gotten so slow that i have to change it, but i dont want to pay a premium on top of premium to get storage than 16GB, apple build devices with bare minimum hardware in areas where devices would suffer overtime, RAM, Storage, there is no "wiggle" room.

No upgradability, my current macbook retina late-2013 at 250GB is already full and i have to move things around all the time, At the time of purchase i estimated 250 to be good enough and paid for 16 GB memory, but now i have many software installed that i need for work on top of needing virtual machine, because it is apple,

Non friendliness toward pro users, they want creative types with deep pockets, but there is no real incentive for me as a software engineer to keep paying for apple, in the corporate and government world, apple is a non player. This is very stupid, because pro users influence the decisions of non-pro people around them, who you think give electronics purchasing advice for my extended family ?

Greed, apple already make you pay more than others, then tries to milk you even more, by giving you icloud with an idiotic 5GB, you need to pay for applecare because one year of coverage is ridiculous, with the repair prices and how impossible it is to repair on your own (see:non upgradeability).

Competition, microsoft is catching up, using MS products at work made me appreciate them more. Linux is better than ever.

on the bright side, ill sell my iPad Air1 and 2 iphone 4s iPad mini, and use the money to start switching, when i am ready i will see my macbook and will have money to buy the newest non-apple laptop.
 
A Strategy for Trimming SSDs under Yosemite

Keep a second boot drive under ML or Mavericks with Trim enabled.

Periodically boot from that system and perform a Repair Disk operation on your Yosemite boot SSD (and any other SSDs you may have) in Apple's Disk Utility. This will automatically Trim the disk.

Reboot into Yosemite

If you maintain adequate spare area and Trim periodically as noted, you should be able to keep your drive in optimum condition without worrying about the kext issue.
 
I fear that Apple won't support TRIM on non-Apple devices ever, as every new release of hardware closes a little bit more the options to install third party whatever, so the real "need" for this will disappear with time (no third party drivers will be possible to install). How many of the actual models can be upgraded to third party drives? And my guess is that in the short-medium term NONE of the new Apple computers will allow any upgrades of any kind, as it is happening now with the MBPr and so on... Maybe only the Mac Pro, but even that, only RAM.

We are going to end with the same environment that has worked so well for Apple with their mobile business: you get a model with X amount of storage, and you can't do anything about that afterwards except upgrading to a new device with bigger storage/RAM.

I would be happy with 2 or 3 millimeters more on my MBPr if I could change the RAM myself. I got one with 16Gb but could easily use 32Gb. The same applies for the SSD storage... In 2 or 3 years getting a 2Tb or more SSD will probably be easy/cheap enough, and with the MBPr you are out of luck. And I certainly expect to keep my computers for more than 3 years (I still have my 2006 Mac Pro working happily, and my 2010 MBP - updated with more memory and a Samsung SSD).
 
Dargoth said:
TRIM and garbage collection are different technologies. SSDs can only clear memory a cluster at a time, which means that in order to do so, it has to compact the data as much as possible by moving data out of clusters, so it can free up as much space as possible. This is garbage collection. Without TRIM, the garbage collector will end up moving free blocks around, due to not knowing that those blocks have been freed.
Click to expand...

Seems like SSD's are not very smart over HDD's.

Besides, what benifiet would u get from third party SSD's over and above Apple's own SSD's that hook into the PCI-E express bus anyway ?
 

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Tech198 said:
Seems like SSD's are not very smart over HDD's.

Besides, what benifiet would u get from third party SSD's over and above Apple's own SSD's that hook into the PCI-E express bus anyway ?
Click to expand...

Not all drives are PCIe.
 
Mark-Technology said:
Samsung is the best consumer SSD brand and has been for the last 3 years. If you've got the money, go for the 850 Pro otherwise 840 Evo is still better than the other brands. Don't worry about trim; you can use trim enabler for that and these drives have excellent garbage collection management regardless.
Click to expand...

I've been using an Evo for a 5-yr old MacBook Pro that I'd written off for dead... It's always 15 sec from pressing the power button to desktop... SSDs are fantastic!
 
5aga said:
this exactly. I've been a Mac user since 2001 and this kinda stuff is tempting me to look at other systems, mainly linux.

Funny how when OS X launched one of its focus points was the openness of Unix.

tbh I'm just waiting for my 2012 cMBP to die and I will probably move on - I really dislike not being able to upgrade the newer machines.
Click to expand...

Apple is starting to feel like a hick company for me, no. First they released a broken Safari 6.2/Javascript for Mountain Lion thats always crashing the browser. Then this SSD problem with Yosemite where you have to disable kext signing.

rgomez said:
I fear that Apple won't support TRIM on non-Apple devices ever, as every new release of hardware closes a little bit more the options to install third party whatever, so the real "need" for this will disappear with time (no third party drivers will be possible to install). How many of the actual models can be upgraded to third party drives? And my guess is that in the short-medium term NONE of the new Apple computers will allow any upgrades of any kind, as it is happening now with the MBPr and so on... Maybe only the Mac Pro, but even that, only RAM.

We are going to end with the same environment that has worked so well for Apple with their mobile business: you get a model with X amount of storage, and you can't do anything about that afterwards except upgrading to a new device with bigger storage/RAM.

I would be happy with 2 or 3 millimeters more on my MBPr if I could change the RAM myself. I got one with 16Gb but could easily use 32Gb. The same applies for the SSD storage... In 2 or 3 years getting a 2Tb or more SSD will probably be easy/cheap enough, and with the MBPr you are out of luck. And I certainly expect to keep my computers for more than 3 years (I still have my 2006 Mac Pro working happily, and my 2010 MBP - updated with more memory and a Samsung SSD).
Click to expand...

I think you'll be right. It's starting to feel like older Mac's will become, Hackintosh's. If not already.
 
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