What are the improvements? I am serious. It is only 20-30% faster, that's it, or am I wrong? How does that compare to the downsides and the higher price? We are in the age of minor improvements for notebooks for quite some time. The improvements are minor, especially for that kind of workload.
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First time Mac User. 2015 or 2017 MBP?
- Thread starter laricho
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What are the improvements? I am serious. It is only 20-30% faster, that's it, or am I wrong? How does that compare to the downsides and the higher price? We are in the age of minor improvements for notebooks for quite some time. The improvements are minor, especially for that kind of workload.
The 2015 came out in that year but I'm pretty sure Apple is still making these laptops since they are still being sold in their store. (My nephew just bought one a month or so ago with nice specs, $200 off the $1999 price AND the free Beats headphones through the education store and he loves it). I used one (15" retina) for work for over three years using Photoshop and Photo Mechanic as well as numerous other functions and it worked perfectly without ever having a single problem. So much so when I retired last year I bought the 13" version and it, too, has been great. One of the biggest pluses for me was the variety of ports that let me use numerous devices with it (spend $6 for an HDMI cable and you can hook it up to a display without spending $50 or more for just one of the dongles you will need to use the newer laptops that way.) The 2015 may not have some of the newer tech additions but in actual use it is a beast and you probably won't notice a difference using it over the newer ones depending on your use. Plus overall it has been reviewed as Apple's most powerful and versatile laptop.
Read the thread please. #8
I am wondering about the upsides for the 2016/2017 still, noone can name them it seems.
Everything you listed is just anecdotal. Something like not having an SD card slot isn't even a bad thing, it's a good thing. Do you want a DVD drive and floppy disk drive too?
I have both a 2015 and 2016 MacBook Pro. Claims like "the 2015 is louder" is demonstrably nonsense. And the 2016 is much faster. I guess if you just use Word or something then maybe they appear to be the same, but I do software research and everything from install time to actual performance is far superior on the 2016, let alone the 2017.
You guys/gals are just displeased for whatever reason, but the displeasure is borderline malcisious when you're suggesting to someone to get a 2 year old laptop instead of a new one because of something as dumb as an SD card slot.
You notice that this thread is about a specific use case stated by the OP? It seems like you ignore that.
Your claim that the new keyboard is not considerably louder can easily be dismissed by looking at the reviews which point out that fact in very clear terms.
What measurements are you basing the "much faster" argument on? I already admitted to 20% by the way. Is that considerably faster? No it is not.
Lateron in your post you say that I am basing my argumentation merely on the SD Card slot, which is not true. You also call the argument about the keyboard nonsense. Tell that to the people who got issues; severe issues with multiple exchanges on a device which is not old at all.
Something missing is just "anecdotal"? The key difference is that in the past, things got replaced by better technologies. With USB-C that is clearly not the case right now. Did you take a look at the ecosystem of USB-C? It is a total mess right now. Read the reviews of USB-C peripherals. I did that. The adapters are pretty bad and unreliable. Adding fuel to that, you have to add money to the initial price of buying the machine just to be able to use it with anything external.
Calling arguments nonsense and only anecdotal does not work in a discussion very well, it only takes it to an almost personal level which is not useful for the OP who wants to make a informed decision.
Your claim that the new keyboard is not considerably louder can easily be dismissed by looking at the reviews which point out that fact in very clear terms.
What measurements are you basing the "much faster" argument on? I already admitted to 20% by the way. Is that considerably faster? No it is not.
Lateron in your post you say that I am basing my argumentation merely on the SD Card slot, which is not true. You also call the argument about the keyboard nonsense. Tell that to the people who got issues; severe issues with multiple exchanges on a device which is not old at all.
Something missing is just "anecdotal"? The key difference is that in the past, things got replaced by better technologies. With USB-C that is clearly not the case right now. Did you take a look at the ecosystem of USB-C? It is a total mess right now. Read the reviews of USB-C peripherals. I did that. The adapters are pretty bad and unreliable. Adding fuel to that, you have to add money to the initial price of buying the machine just to be able to use it with anything external.
Calling arguments nonsense and only anecdotal does not work in a discussion very well, it only takes it to an almost personal level which is not useful for the OP who wants to make a informed decision.
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This is borderline absurd. Whatever.
1. Even if the keyboard is louder it is a non-factor. Period. I have both and there's no difference.
2. Why are you arguing with me about the performance then? It's far superior.
3. I didn't say you based your 'argument' on solely SD cards, I just pointed it out.
4. Keyboard issues (whatever they are) don't matter - that's what a warranty and Apple Care are for. People have issues with the 2015 too.
5. Something missing isn't anecdotal, I never claimed it was. Things like "I don't notice a performance difference" are anecdotal (and also demonstrably untrue).
6. USB-C is a technically superior technology. The legacy ports were replaced with a superior technology.
7. No you don't have to add to the price to "have it work with anything external". Everything is coming out in USB-C and really you should be looking at wireless anyway.
I guess we agree to disagree. I don't want to waste my time on this. This disussion is circular, my arguments are layed out in the thread.
I dismissed your argument, not ignored it. Different things.
So he only has to buy everything new instead? Get everything with USB-C. Huh?
Buy an adapter for legacy devices if he has to, otherwise make sure everything you buy, like an eGPU, is USB-C/TB3.
Legacy ports are legacy ports. It's no different than a DVD, or Floppy Disk, or whatever other legacy standard you want. If we were looking at 2016 vs 2015 and you were heavily reliant on legacy ports and it was just after the 2016 launched, sure, but it's two years later. It's an old, outdated computer now. Fine for what it is, but the 2017 is superior.
Super happy with my 2017 Pro.
Only if price is an issue I would consider a 2015 machine, otherwise I would certainly regret not buying the 2017.
- Choose sides! I give all-day courses and sometimes projector and power is on the left and sometimes on the right. I can choose, because everything is USB-c, cool!
- Very light and slim, super convenient while traveling.
- Keyboard is flawless, better than my previous Retina Macbook 2015 that had uneven travel on some keys. And 2016 issues were fixed for the 2017 model.
- Start to like the visual feedback of the touch bar. I just don't like that it switches off at times, so I need 2 keystrokes instead of 1.
- Speakers... The sound is great.
- Super fast SSD... It's all so much more fluent.
Only if price is an issue I would consider a 2015 machine, otherwise I would certainly regret not buying the 2017.
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It's worth checking out the new retina MacBook IMO. I like its keyboard more than I did with my 2016 nTB.
[doublepost=1505256950][/doublepost]
For that workload, the significance of the improvements may or may not equate to significant real-world benefit. But there are some nonetheless.
Modest CPU improvements
Massive (almost ridiculously massive) iGPU and dGPU improvements
Massive IO capability improvements
Modest screen improvements
Massive speaker improvements
Modest trackpad improvements (arguably)
Modest form factor/weight improvements
Massive SSD improvements
But I can understand the rationale for purchasing either of the two models in question.
[doublepost=1505256950][/doublepost]
For that workload, the significance of the improvements may or may not equate to significant real-world benefit. But there are some nonetheless.
Modest CPU improvements
Massive (almost ridiculously massive) iGPU and dGPU improvements
Massive IO capability improvements
Modest screen improvements
Massive speaker improvements
Modest trackpad improvements (arguably)
Modest form factor/weight improvements
Massive SSD improvements
But I can understand the rationale for purchasing either of the two models in question.
OP asked:
"Could anyone offer any advice please?"
If you're concerned about the keyboard, the best advice I can give is to go somewhere where both models are on display (is that still possible any more?) and try BOTH keyboards.
Open up Pages on both computers with a new blank document.
Then... just type some.
Switch to the other one, and repeat.
Then... switch back.
And then, YOU tell US which keyboard you think you can live with for the next several years.
I prefer the older-style keyboard myself.
I tried the test above, and found myself making -many more- errors on the "new" keyboard.
"Could anyone offer any advice please?"
If you're concerned about the keyboard, the best advice I can give is to go somewhere where both models are on display (is that still possible any more?) and try BOTH keyboards.
Open up Pages on both computers with a new blank document.
Then... just type some.
Switch to the other one, and repeat.
Then... switch back.
And then, YOU tell US which keyboard you think you can live with for the next several years.
I prefer the older-style keyboard myself.
I tried the test above, and found myself making -many more- errors on the "new" keyboard.
i would rebuttal.
although 2 year old intel cpu for the last 4 gen has marginal gains at best. their dgpu is making strives but comparing 2016/17 cpu speed to 2015 and you're not seeing that much of difference.
you can't just say get over it, thats actually a very immature way of arguing. it's up to the individuals to like or not it's not up to you to decide for them.
typing on the 2016 model is like tapping your fingers on wood, there is no cushion for your finger when you push down the keys. some might enjoy that experience but i certainly don't again YMMV.
as for OP
if you're writing long essays, i would def recommend you bring in a piece of literature to applestore, and try copy it onto the 2016 mbp's keyboard. if you don't like it or find it hard and struggle with it. get a used 2015 off ebay with applecare+
But Apple still sells it new on their web site.....so how can that be a bad thing?
who needs USB-C adapters when there are 71¢ USB-C to USB-B cables?
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030319&p_id=14830&seq=1&format=2
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030319&p_id=14830&seq=1&format=2