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Flash Player 10.2 is out, do you want the optimized Flash Player on iPad?

Do you want the option to turn Flash Player on and off on iPad?

  • Yes

    Votes: 185 60.1%

  • No

    Votes: 123 39.9%
  • Total voters
    308
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flexengineer

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 5, 2011
274
0
California
I am curious to define the clear proportion of iPad owners on this website who would vote for Flash on the device.

It seems 10.2 comes with major performance improvement, 10.3 is coming up with security and privacy settings built in the browser, and 11 is coming with a mind blowing integrated and accelerated 3D engine. It seems to run well on Android where there is a "touch to start" option.

Within the last month, Amazon released 2 media products that are not available at all to iPhone and iPad users because of the ban on Flash. It seems Amazon aimed at more affordable media offering (compared to iTunes) partially made possible by a 100% margin in the browser rather than 70% on native iOS apps (after Apple's 30% cut).

Amazon Takes On Netflix With Movie Streaming Service
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/02/amazon-takes-on-netflix/

Amazon reveals its Cloud Music Player first
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/29/amazon-reveals-its-cloud-music-player-first/

Have you experienced Flash Player 10.2 or 10.3 on tablet or smartphone? If so, how was it?

Would you like the choice or option to turn Flash on and off on iPad?

Would you support Apple's decision to ban Flash if it was motivated by corporate and commercial interests more than user's experience or interests?
 
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Personally, I'd like the choice to have Flash, Silverlight, Java, etc, etc on my iPad/iPhone but it's not the end of the world that we don't currently have them and the presence of them on an alternative platform wouldn't be enough to persuade me to ditch the iPad.

What does amuse me about the whole flash debate though is that if you go back far enough on this forum there were loads and loads of people calling for Flash on their iOS devices. Then, Steve Jobs did his (in)famous "thoughts on flash" open letter and suddenly flash became the spawn of satan and it was a positive benefit not to have it on iOS devices ;)
 
kvizzel said:
pretty much this...

only reason why i'd like flash is for hulu, netflix, most of those video playing websites.
Click to expand...

It's interesting because I was feeling the same, just adding new generation of Flex and AIR apps, but I discovered that Hulu does not come for free in the browser on Flash 10.1+ enabled device like you would expect (browse to Hulu.com then click and play). That's because Hulu does not have the mobile rights yet, so it is unsure as far as Hulu is concerned whether or not there will be a free browser based version on mobiles (at least without tricks or hacks).

However, there is also a business aspect I believe, more and more complex enterprise class applications are built in Flex and AIR, those are gigantic applications (the largest Flash apps ever built) with millions of lines of code, hundreds of developers and development already running for several years (Morgan Stanley with interfaces for clients and brokers, VMware for interface of their major virtualization and cloud computing products, among others). Those are another class of application that could not be build with HTML5 or Javascript.

On the entertainment side, more affordable media offerings recently launched from Amazon are only available using Flash in the browser, therefore not on iOS devices.

Lunchb0x8 said:
I am yet to experience a site that is worsened by the lack of flash on iOS devices.
Click to expand...

Have you had any problem with Youtube video embedded on blogs and websites (outside of Youtube)? Any trading tools that was requiring Java or Flash? Any video that just never played? Any non-Apple media subscription that you can't access freely?

I do not doubt that there is a certain percentage of users who do not use their phone in ways that might be challenged by the lack of Flash, but it seems to be pretty much 50/50 to me based on this poll and another separate one. That is on a pro-Apple website, it also seems to affect iPad users more than iPhone users. I have to be very honest with you, I have had an iPhone since 2 and I am pissed quite often but it did not bother me much until I could not work because of the lack of Flash support while Android is being very serious about it, so is WebOS and RIM proprietary OS (can't remember the name). Now that's me, my use cases, but I am sure it is going to be an increasing proportion of Apple's consumers when all those Flash and AIR apps are going to overload us.
 
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I think we're reaching the point where Flash is in its current state is usable on iPads and other similar mobile devices (but I'm not sure about the effect on battery life). I wouldn't mind the ability to toggle between the two. But, to be honest, if it doesn't pan out I'm not sure how much I care. I don't miss Flash at all largely because if I do need it, I can just launch iSwifter or Skyfire. Neither app requires me to jailbreak and both do an admirable job of enabling me to access Flash sites in a pinch.

Because there are app solutions for the lack of Flash, from a strategic standpoint I don't think it's a good idea for Apple to cave and allow Flash on iDevices. If people need Flash, they can continue to use whatever apps get the job done. But, it's best IMO if Flash continues to die a slow death. Ironically enough, I have an easier time on my iPad than on my Galaxy Tab with viewing videos on certain websites because those videos were optimized for the iPad. And they were optimized for the iPad precisely because Apple has stood so firm in its anti-Flash stance. In fact, if you're a website developer these days, you'd have to be completely out of the loop or short-sighted to continue building significant (or any) portions of your website with Flash.
 
thelookingglass said:
I don't miss Flash at all largely because if I do need it, I can just launch iSwifter or Skyfire. Neither app requires me to jailbreak and both do an admirable job of enabling me to access Flash sites in a pinch.
Click to expand...

Skyfire only plays straight video and you had to buy and install that proprietary app from Apple's AppStore (30% of the app sales goes to Apple) in order to only play straight Flash video trans-coded to a format that HTML5 understand, videos that are free and right in the browser on any Flash enabled device. You can't play games or run Flex or AIR apps using Skyfire, since that app does not display Flash, it only trans-code straight plain video, no applications, no games, no subtitles, no content protection, no business logic, no real business value.

It can't play any Flash protected content neither, pretty much only free Youtube videos embedded outside of Youtube.com and the money you paid to get the app finance all the server and bandwidth overhead because they take Flash video from the site, send it to Skyfire server, trans-code it on the server side, then send it back to you phone. That's 200% bandwidth consumption and huge extra server side CPU consumption compared to Flash streaming, now imagine Netflix supporting that, they are responsible for the biggest bandwidth picks in America, if we would multiple those by 2 that's a lot of waste, your money being wasted, they would have to increase their subscriptions just to make up for it and would probably go down just to please Steve Jobs.
 
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NOt, flash, but I would like to have a more robust Java on my iPad. I'm taking some classes and the web interface is Java based and will not let me response to our online discussions.
 
I'd like it if it was:

  • Disabled by default
  • Secure
  • Stable

It's well known to be insecure and unstable. I disable it by default on all of my machines for this reason, it's a liability. And 99% of the flash content I see is advertising - there's no adblock on the ipad, so most of the time the 'benefit' of flash would be annoying adverts that slow down the system and risk either a browser crash or a poisoned advert attack each time you view a page.

It would be handy for those (very rare nowadays) unplayable videos, and perhaps the odd flash game (although I'm skeptical that performance is good enough!)
 
flexengineer said:
Would you support Apple's decision to ban Flash if it was motivated by corporate and commercial interests more than user's experience or interests?
Click to expand...

What about 'I neither support nor oppose Apple's decision, I simply ask whether the end product is suitable for me and if it is worth the money'? Your question is also a loaded one, by the way.

flexengineer said:
Have you had any problem with Youtube video embedded on blogs and websites (outside of Youtube)? Any trading tools that was requiring Java or Flash? Any video that just never played? Any non-Apple media subscription that you can't access freely?
Click to expand...

'I would like to be able to view embedded YouTube videos' is not equivalent to 'I would like the iPad opened up to Flash'. Flash is a solution to some things people want, but it doesn't mean it's the solution.

flexengineer said:
I do not doubt that there is a certain percentage of users who do not use their phone in ways that might be challenged by the lack of Flash, but it seems to be pretty much 50/50 to me based on this poll and another separate one.
Click to expand...

These polls are meaningless. I don't mean offense, but their reliability and validity are virtually zero.
 
If it was a touch to start option, I wouldn't mind. Then I could choose WHEN to view Flash and when NOT to view Flash.

It's very rare I come by websites needing Flash (I don't count ads). But now and then there's a video that won't be played.
 
Even though Flash might not be such a great technology, that doesn't change how prevalent it is on the Internet. With using my iPad to surf the web these past two weeks, I've noticed how often I've had to pause my browsing on the iPad and had to take out my MacBook Pro to look at a webpage in it's entirety because of the lack of flash. I hate when I'm on gizmodo for instance, and I can't view an embedded video.

Sure, there is more and more optimization such as with YouTube, but even then there are certain youtube videos that aren't even allowed to be played on a "Mobile device." Vevo videos won't even show up on YouTube on the iPad, and instead requires it's own separate app.
 
kvizzel said:
pretty much this...

only reason why i'd like flash is for hulu, netflix, most of those video playing websites.
Click to expand...

Maybe you don't understand that those sites disabled mobile flash support, because content provider want mobile devices to pay? So no, Flash is useless for those sites except drain your battery.

iOS already have apps that play videos from those sites.
 
I was worried how bothersome the lack of Flash would turn out to be when buying my iPad. Ten months on, I'm actually surprised how little of a problem it is, especially for such a ubiquitous technology of so many years. I might even go as far as saying that the problems of crashes and instability Flash causes me on my Mac are more of a problem to me than any problems resulting by not having Flash on my iPad. Either way, I do agree Steve's decision was in the consumer's interest and not one rooted in corporate greed, as some seem to indicate.
 
We need to move forward, it might be painful for some (not for me). If we keep adding flash, then it will just become a permanent crutch and we'll never get beyond that.

It's like a physical rehab patient. It's easier to keep using a walker and it does what you need it to do, it allows you to crawl, albeit not really good. Eventually you have to put the walker aside so that you can learn to run.


Apple and others (not adobe) now are like your physio therapist egging you on so that we can get over this crap known as flash. while google is still out there with their walker.
 
I find that every few weeks I'm blocked by a site that requires Flash. Of course I'd rather have Flash support but it bothers me less and less as time goes on.
 
Nishi100 said:
Apple. Can every single developer of flash websites (millions upon millions) convert their content to mp4?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I know that the developers for all of the sites I visit could provide their content without using Flash. I also know that web developers aren't each responsible for millions of websites (it's like asking how a million people could possibly manage to eat a million lunches each day, it's not that big a deal).
 
psonice said:
I'd like it if it was:

  • Disabled by default
  • Secure
  • Stable

It's well known to be insecure and unstable. I disable it by default on all of my machines for this reason, it's a liability. And 99% of the flash content I see is advertising - there's no adblock on the ipad, so most of the time the 'benefit' of flash would be annoying adverts that slow down the system and risk either a browser crash or a poisoned advert attack each time you view a page.

It would be handy for those (very rare nowadays) unplayable videos, and perhaps the odd flash game (although I'm skeptical that performance is good enough!)
Click to expand...

HTML5 video ads? They're more annoying.. I tell you. I have to block them at a deeper level. It's stable here. No security issues have arised here.
 
Yes, I think flash should be an option on the iPad if users want it--but obviously that is not going to happen.

After using a Xoom, it was nice to have flash to view free video content that is not available on the iPad--and there is *still* a significant amount of it by the way. Not every content provider has an iPad app.

The funny thing is that when I visit the same site on a flash enabled device and an iOS device often the broken flash indicator isn't even visible on iOS anymore--the page is reformatted as if it wasn't there. This is what gives iOS users the impression that "they aren't missing much".

Granted, flash on mobile devices like the Xoom is still very buggy and doesn't work in all cases. However, it does work well on many sites and is much better than not having it at all.

I don't know why people are so opposed to the choice of having flash on an iOS device. If you don't want it then don't install it if you think its going to hinder your experience.
 
poloponies said:
It's not mp4, it's HTML5, and plenty of developers have been doing just that. And (gasp) even Adobe's getting in on the act:

http://www.html5trends.com/tutorials/using-wallaby-to-convert-flash-to-html5-video/
Click to expand...

Adobe aren't "getting in on the act," they're making more money, so that flash developers, who want to create HTML5 can use software that they're used too, by purchasing Adobe's software. Adobe makes more money by selling software, than people viewing flash content on the internet.

Sorry, I did mean HTML5; however, most HTML5 is in quicktime format, which isn't really HTML5, but most browsers have "accpeted" it as part of HTML5, and there's not a definitive list of what's HTML5 (everything apart from flash and silverlight), and what's not (quicktime, silverlight).
 
barkomatic said:
I don't know why people are so opposed to the choice of having flash on an iOS device. If you don't want it then don't install it if you think its going to hinder your experience.
Click to expand...

Nobody in this thread has posted a staunch opposition to the choice of having Flash.

I think Apple's decision is a defensible one, however, because
(1) Flash is not great tech, even if it is popular
(2) If they include the option, it will either be off by default or people will leave it on and not bother to change it, because they don't understand it. This will affect negatively many people's experience of using the iPad.
(3) To implement an easy solution (Flash content has a button: do you want to see this content?) is not really that easy a solution

So while I am not opposed, I am not in favour either. I think Apple is free to do as they choose, and their choices have resulted in a useful product. I am not convinced by the counter argument (that the Flash choice would simply be better, without qualification) for points 2 and 3 above.
 
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