Flash Plug-in For iPhone Coming Soon?

[aria505]

So... ....you don't visit a lot of sites, do you?

I visit tons of sites. I'm all for the iPhone getting flash support. I'm just trying to make the point that there are really only certian types of sites that tend to be flash-only. And those types of sites aren't the kind that most people would visit on their iPhone. I would love to see a list of popular sites that are flash-only that provide a service.

So please list them.

Most of the sites I work on are for the creative community - photographers, ad agencies, or those marketing to that category of business. Some narrow product categories, where demonstration of the product is significant. I can understand their reasons for wanting Flash, and that's fine. My biggest problem is there's the assumption that everyone has Flash, high-speed internet, etc. That isn't true. The first time they try accessing their sites from their nifty new iPhones I know I'll get phone calls.

I agree, this is my point. Flash-only sites tend to be for buiness indentity sites that have information about a product that a business sells or it is a portfolio site for for a creative artist (photographer, graphic designer, a band, a web designer's portfolio, etc.). These aren't sites that people need 24/7 access to on their iPhone.

 

[troyallen]

I visit tons of sites. I'm all for the iPhone getting flash support. I'm just trying to make the point that there are really only certian types of sites that tend to be flash-only. And those types of sites aren't the kind that most people would visit on their iPhone. I would love to see a list of popular sites that are flash-only that provide a service.

So please list them.


http://www.justin.tv/justin

http://www.stickam.com

 

[akakillroy]

I hope that Apple and Adobe work together to implement an efficient Safari/Flash plugin tailored to the iPhone... it would be to the advantage of both...

I lay odds that they are, probably making somthing that will integrate flash content with the H.264 hardware. Just a hunch.

 

[Yankees 4 Life]

hey guys dont get so riled up about flash support... we all know its very important to even view many of the most popular websites, however it gets rid of pop ups, which i hate hate hate....

I think it's possible to implement a VOIP application using Flash.

um not really... you truly need the actual application for skype to work... And why the hell would you want to use a free fone when you are already paying for the service. you might as well use it or use it at work...

 

[whatever]

I wasn't going to comment, but then I read the stupid "re-enactment" below and felt the need to.

I don't recall ever paying Adobe for the Flash Plugin. The reason the plugin is popular is that people make money on it. If Flash continues not to be supported on the iPhone, then developers would fine another method to make than banner ads viewable and then they would stop using Flash, because they would use whatever method that worked on the iPhone on regular sites.

So it's actually important for Adobe to make an ARM version of the Flash plugin.

I think Apple was playing a game of chicken with Adobe over the flash player licensing fee. Adobe wants a pretty penny for the player on embedded devices.

[Dramatic reenactment]
ADOBE: So, you want the flash player on your new phone, eh?
STEVE: Yep.
ADOBE: OK, that'll be 5% of retail sales.
STEVE: Ah, no
ADOBE: OK, 2.5%, bottom line.
STEVE: Look, we can release this device without the Flash player at all.
ADOBE: No way, we rule dynamic content on the web--if you want to give people the "real web" you've got to play ball.
STEVE [to the public]: Develop using Web 2.0, Flash Player will suck your battery so it's really better that you don't have FP. [applies RDF effect].
PUBLIC: [Buys 100,000 x ? phones in the first week]
ADOBE: Ah, Steve? Steve? Are you there?
STEVE: Hmm, oh it's you. Can I help you with something?
ADOBE: Ah, how's about 5$/unit.
STEVE [Applying RDF]: you think it would be strategic to offer the Flash Player for free on the iPhone.
ADOBE: Ah... We've decided it would be strategic to offer the player for free on iPhones... [blinks a few times, regains focus] But you've got to pay for the development and maintenance.
STEVE: Already done.

 

[whooleytoo]

A lot of people aren't realizing that it isn't as simple as using the existing Safari Flash plug-in; the iPhone uses an ARM CPU that would require Adobe to port their code to run properly, and Apple ensuring that it does so with as little impact on battery life as possible.

Ultimately, until Apple publishes more technical details (which could be a while!) we have no idea how easy or difficult this could be. The fact that it uses an ARM processor simply means it requires a re-compile and probably re-optimising.

But without knowing what APIs/frameworks Apple has published for internal use, we've little idea how portable the Mac plugin code might be.

 

[pyramid6]

Some of us want Flash for Flex. Ajax is not a standard, Flex is a standard.

P6

 

[iMichael72]

Great news. Can't wait for the update.

 

[MacTheSpoon]

That'll be great when they add the Flash plug-in. It's going to be really fun, watching this product evolve...

 

[HyperZboy]

Flash will come, but it won't have Flash video support.

The CPU in the iPhone simply isn't powerful enough to decode it on its own ... although it does have a vector floating point unit that might help. The iPhone is optimised for decoding H.264 without eating battery too quickly, and flash video simply wouldn't be able to do that. Maybe if the decoder was rewritten specifically for the hardware in the iPhone...

The flash plugin will do all of the classic flash stuff though - the games, adverts, etc.

Of all the people who've posted on this topic, you've hit on half of the battle.

Add to what you said the fact that AT&T's EDGE network is just not fast enough to handle FLASH content at this time and BINGO!

Plus, it would have been utterly embarrassing for both Apple AND AT&T to release the iPhone and not have it work properly. So instead, they'll add some type of limited FLASH support later with lots of fanfare.

That's the full answer as to why no FLASH support right now.

 

[DanB91]

A friend of mine works in the FLASH unit of Adobe and has since it was Macromedia. He told me the other night (while playing with my new iPhone) that Apple is putting a lot pressure on Adobe to build a flash plug-in for the iPhone and that Adobe should have something out soon.

Evidently Apple would not give Adobe an early release of the iPhone to get a jump start on it, but he said their lab was getting one this week after the 4th holiday.

pretty cool to hear if true

im surprised no one quoted u lol

 

[propynyl]

FLash is great...but what about MMS!!!

I cant wait for flash, but at least add MMS support apple! My mother's $99 cellphone has MMS, it is standard these days.

 

[iSee]

I wasn't going to comment, but then I read the stupid "re-enactment" below and felt the need to.

I don't recall ever paying Adobe for the Flash Plugin. The reason the plugin is popular is that people make money on it. If Flash continues not to be supported on the iPhone, then developers would fine another method to make than banner ads viewable and then they would stop using Flash, because they would use whatever method that worked on the iPhone on regular sites.

So it's actually important for Adobe to make an ARM version of the Flash plugin.

Adobe (usually) charges a per unit royalty to the OEM for the right to include the Flash Player on consumer electronic devices.

Link: http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer_sdk/productinfo/faq/#item-1-3

They are using their dominant position in desktop/laptop active web content (which they achieved, in part, by giving away the player) to make money from consumer electronic device sales.

It is a change of strategy for them from the desktop/laptop model where they make money only from sales of the authoring environment. Time will tell if this is a viable strategy. I'm guessing that the release of the iPhone is a critical point in determining the success of this strategy. If Apple pays, it's settled: everyone will have to pay. If Apple doesn't pay, next Nokia won't pay, etc. My guess is that Apple did not pay.

My "stupid" reenactment was just a fun way to say this.

Anyway, I think you're right that it's in Adobe's best interests to have the player on the iPhone, whether they get paid per unit or not. In fact, I think Adobe knows that too, which is why they ultimately gave in to Apple--but hey, they owe it to their shareholders to at least try to get paid extra, right?

It's just as well Adobe was stopped here. If not, how far would they go? Maybe try to grab a piece of the Internet ad business (pay per click or pay per host), or get consumers to pay directly after all with a "premium" version of the player (that let's you disable Internet ads!)

 

[rocklobzter31]

Iphone!!!

I just got my hands on an iPhone from the AT&T store. It is a lot smaller than I thought. Even though people have said this before I sort of just thought 'well duh it's small' but it's REALLY compact. I love it. The keys are small but i got used to it just with my 20 min. at the store. Case in point: I will never wash my hands again

 

[robby818]

I wasn't going to comment, but then I read the stupid "re-enactment" below and felt the need to.

I don't recall ever paying Adobe for the Flash Plugin. The reason the plugin is popular is that people make money on it. If Flash continues not to be supported on the iPhone, then developers would fine another method to make than banner ads viewable and then they would stop using Flash, because they would use whatever method that worked on the iPhone on regular sites.

So it's actually important for Adobe to make an ARM version of the Flash plugin.

PLUS I think it was forseeable that the iPhone was going to be a big hit. Adobe like everyone else saw it coming from a mile away, so the record sales numbers during the first weekend really didnt do anything to change Adobe's position with respect to flash & iPhone support.

 

[jwa276]

Needed or not. Unless you have flash installed, you cannot view the web page correctly. What's the point of spending $600 on this iPhone device with a full internet browser that Apple was advertising and you can't view embedded flash.

Apple took away some developers from the Leopard project and delayed it for the iPhone. And in the end, it's still missing featurers and capabilitities. Shame on you Apple!!!

Oh come now... The iPhone is already proving to be one of apple's greater technological achievements. No need to bash them for it. Personally, I trust that whatever they decide to do with the whole flash thing will be the smartest way to go. I hope they do release flash, though, because one could make some sickly fun website interfaces and/or web apps for iPhone!

Leopard will come, and it will be worth the wait- just like the iPhone was!

Go Apple!

Btw... Posting this from my iPhone..... Damn I love this keyboard!

 

[zim]

Some of us want Flash for Flex. Ajax is not a standard, Flex is a standard.

P6

Clarification: AJAX is a movement based on web standards, standards that have been around much longer then Flash. Flex is a recent development platform for creating RIAs. Flex is not a standard but can work with web standards as well as Flash. Flash is also not a web standard. Flash is an add on to the web experience.

 

[zim]

I'm betting $100 that Java never, ever makes it to iPhone. It's a dead-and-buried technology as far as Steve is concerned.

Which is sad because there is a lot of recent development in Java land. Processing is one such example. Artists are doing amazing things with it, some of which is viewable by the web. None of it has any real use but it is fun and explorative, just as Flash was back during version 4 and 5, the good old days

I also wonder how not having Java effects google's AJAX web toolkit.. which is based on Java. Did google rework their toolkit?

 

[bigjohn]

I finally figured out how to make the iPhone into something I want...

take out the WiFi chip and replace it with a 3G chip... then repackage the WiFi chip into a dock-connectorable additional accessory (if it's really all about weight, let me decide what's heavy - sorry Mr. Jobs, I see you have feeble little arms). Also, v2 should have 8GB and 16GB of memory, at price points of $50 less per. That's right, you heard it here first...

 

[iBookG4user]

A flash plug-in would probably be handy for when I get my iPhone. Several of the sites I normally visit use Flash for at least some of their website.

 

[glowingstar]

Add to what you said the fact that AT&T's EDGE network is just not fast enough to handle FLASH content at this time and BINGO!

truly! it would be like trying to sell downloadable movies in 1995. pretty useless!

 

[w00master]

here's some figures for you, straight outta my arse: 50% of people don't know they have the flash plug-in installed on their computers and wouldn't care if it wasn't there. 90% of websites don't use flash for anything crucial to the experience.

meanwhile, somebody get w00master a flash plug-in for his damn phone so he'll shut the hell up about it.

love, another web developer who hates flash

Why the animosity? Does it take your own animosity to bring out so-called figures "outta [your] arse?" I'm just speaking directly to Apple's so-called claim of the "real internet." Sorry, but without flash, it ain't a real web browser.

Again, did I insult you in any manner?

All I'm saying is that flash should have been there for the beginning. Yet, you just turn around and begin insulting PURELY because I'm giving Apple some constructive criticism. LOOK at nearly *every* review talking about the iPhone's browser, almost *ALL* of them criticize the iPhone BECAUSE IT DOESN"T HAVE FLASH SUPPORT.

Are you such a fanboy/girl that you *CANNOT* accept *ANY* criticism in Apple? Please, get off your high horse AND COME BACK TO REALITY.

Maybe YOU don't like flash. Maybe YOU don't navigate to sites that use flash, but the MAJORITY of the users who use browser do use FLASH on a regular basis. It doesn't matter that these users (whether it's 50% as you claim) know whether or not a flash plugin was installed. That doesn't matter. What matters is that many users will notice that they're not getting the "full internets" on their iPhone browser.

Why you had to become INSULTING is beyond me. I am offering criticism. I want the iPhone to succeed. I guess YOU think Apple is perfect and God.

Get a life.

w00master

 

[JellyFish]

I'm not installing it if I can avoid it. I do not want flash on my iphone. I considered not having it to be a very good thing.

If I'm forced to install it, I will not be happy about it at all.

 

[foniks2020]

wouldn't it be nice to have that choice?

I'm not installing it if I can avoid it. I do not want flash on my iphone. I considered not having it to be a very good thing.

If I'm forced to install it, I will not be happy about it at all.

I think it would be really nice to have the option of viewing flash based sites... and have the option of turning off flash too.

Maybe the iphone could implement something like Microsoft did to avoid the EOLAS patent... when you encounter flash you see a plugin icon... if you want to view the flash you can touch it and it will play....

This would keep CPU use at a minimum, make adFlash-a-phobes happy and still let people view GOOD flash sites possible.

 

[weing]

I suspect there will be a penalty in iPhone performance when it gets added. Flash is such a waste of time and resource drain when not used properly . Which seems to be always!
Personally I feel anyone who embeds Flash content into their website,especially the opening page, should have their skull bashed in with a hammer.