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c0052350

macrumors member
Oct 10, 2003
38
0
efi of the 4850 imac

Like some other poster mentioned the mac pro version 5870 could still be efi ebc and work in older macs, out of interest does anyone
know if the efi of the imac 2009 with a ati 4850 was 32bit or 64bit.

If that too was efi 64 then there still is HOPE
 

macz1

macrumors 6502
Oct 28, 2007
315
5
I have a 4890 right now. Do you think I would notice a big improvement going to a 5770 or should I just get a 5870.

As far as I know there is almost no performance difference between the 4890 and the 5770. Sometimes the 4890 is faster, sometimes the 5770. Its power draw however is much lower, especially when idling.
The 5870 is both faster and less power-hungry (when idle, fully loaded it's
~10-20% more) than the 4870/90. It's considerably faster than the 4890, I would say at least 50% and almost twice as fast in many games when using high res settings.
 

jeanlain

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2009
2,430
933
Like some other poster mentioned the mac pro version 5870 could still be efi ebc and work in older macs, out of interest does anyone
know if the efi of the imac 2009 with a ati 4850 was 32bit or 64bit.

If that too was efi 64 then there still is HOPE
I'm pretty sure the 4850 ROM used EBC, not 64-bit EFI. I could be wrong though.
 

nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,719
3
know if the efi of the imac 2009 with a ati 4850 was 32bit or 64bit.
The GPU is soldered down to the board, and the firmware is developed by Apple (they do the system board's firmware, and in this case, the GPU would be included).

A separate card OTOH, would depend on who does the work. So far, it's been ATI doing the work for the ATI based PCIe cards (or Apple would have chosen to use EFI if they did it themselves, as they do for the nVidia products). ATI even released a statement that they'd continue to use EBC (bit after the HD3870 release IIRC). Now whether or not this has changed (Apple has decided to do the development, ATI bowed to pressure,...), I've no idea. We'll have to wait and see...

I'm pretty sure the 4850 ROM used EBC, not 64-bit EFI. I could be wrong though.
See above.
 

jeanlain

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2009
2,430
933
ATI even released a statement that they'd continue to use EBC (bit after the HD3870 release IIRC).
I didn't know that. Do you have a link to this statement?
And who's your source regarding who develops the firmwares? Not that I don't trust you, I just want to have a good reason for hoping.
If you know whether the iMac's 4850 has EFI or EBC, I'd like to know this as well. I thought it has EBC, because its ROM has been used for flashing cards, I recall (could be wrong though). I don't remember any mention of incompatibilities with old Mac Pros.

It's AMD's interest to produce cards with EBC, as they would sell more GPUs. It's Apple's interest to do EFI-64 cards in order to sell new Macs (which is more interesting for them). So it totally depends on who's doing the job indeed. But I would think that Apple didn't make the firmware for the GTX 285, which is sold by EVGA. And it wasn't Nvidia's interest to make it compatible with all Mac Pros. Still, they didn't.
Another possibility is that EBC is hard to develop or incompatible with Nvidia cards, for some reason. Remember the 8800GT, they could have done an EBC card that would have been compatible with all Mac Pros, instead of two separate models.

And surprisingly, ATi apparently didn't insist that Apple advertise the 4870 as being compatible with all Mac Pros. They practically did the EBC work for nothing.
 

MacVidCards

Suspended
Original poster
Nov 17, 2008
6,096
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Hollywood, CA
have you guys checked the link speed? Is it 5.0 GT/s?

looks like a "no" so far.

Will try with 5870 shortly and update.
 

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MacVidCards

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in fact, on the sshot, you selected onboard audio device. :)

Yes, well, i thought people should know what speed the Unused Onboard Audio device operates at. Could be crucial info for the Unused Audio Device crowd.

For those of you interested in GPU:
 

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netkas

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2007
1,198
394
lets try this benchmark

http://mirror.netkas.org/cs/1.dem.zip

it's CS:S demo

unzip and copy to folder - Documents/Steam Content/<Steam Username>/counter-strike source/cstrike

launch CS:S and type in console - timedemo 1

125 fps on rhd4850 and quad @ 3ghz, settings: 1680x1050, all maxed except texture level - high and 4xAA
 

MacVidCards

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lets try this benchmark

it's CS:S demo

unzip and copy to folder - Documents/Steam Content/<Steam Username>/counter-strike source/cstrike

Just bought it...downloading now.

115fps on 5770 @ 1600x1000. I think my 2.26 Ghz is killing me here.

All maxed ex text which is on "high"

btw, path for me was:

/Volumes/2 T/Users/Me/Library/Application Support/Steam/SteamApps/Rominator/counter-strike source/cstrike

ill drop in the 5870, see if i can make up for Apple's little 2.26 joke.
 

nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,719
3
I didn't know that. Do you have a link to this statement?
I did a search and couldn't find it. But if I do manage it, I'll post.

And who's your source regarding who develops the firmwares? Not that I don't trust you, I just want to have a good reason for hoping.
Facts available + logic.

ATI produces the PCIe cards (can be inferred from this, and continued for the HD4870). But this also goes back to the first question above (just not a link that spells out ATI uses EBC in these cards), as the HD3870 used EBC as does the HD4870. Assuming ATI is still doing the work (Apple didn't switch to another contractor, assuming it's possible over any IP agreements they would have with ATI), it's logical that ATI would continue to do so for whatever Mac editions they produce.

If you know whether the iMac's 4850 has EFI or EBC, I'd like to know this as well. I thought it has EBC, because its ROM has been used for flashing cards, I recall (could be wrong though). I don't remember any mention of incompatibilities with old Mac Pros.
Apple has developed their own firmware for their systems (Mini, iMacs, laptops, MP's, and XServes). Meaning the main logic board.

For PCIe cards, they have their own ROM chip on them. But in the case of the iMac, the GPU is on the main logic board. So it would seem that Apple did the firmware development for the GPU as well, and Apple uses EFI, not EBC.

It's possible they went with a separate ROM for the GPU on the iMac board, and ATI provided it in the past (not sure, as I've not had access to the innards of an iMac). But I'm accustomed to integrated graphics systems adding it to the main firmware (assuming the ROM's capacity is sufficient to hold everything).

The main firmware contains code for other components attached to it, such as SATA, Ethernet, Audio, USB, and FW.

It's AMD's interest to produce cards with EBC, as they would sell more GPUs.
Yes, but not for this reason (EBC is easier). As the cards are contracted by Apple, it's not a retail part ATI can sell off as they please (need Apple's permission to do so, and Apple sells them as upgrades through the Apple store). So any other store that sells them, would have to do so with permission from Apple (i.e. buy directly from Apple if they're willing to do a quantity purchase for less than the MSRP per unit in order to make a profit). IIRC, this did happen with the HD3870, but not sure if the HD4870 ever saw sales outside of the Apple Store.

It's Apple's interest to do EFI-64 cards in order to sell new Macs (which is more interesting for them). So it totally depends on who's doing the job indeed. But I would think that Apple didn't make the firmware for the GTX 285, which is sold by EVGA. And it wasn't Nvidia's interest to make it compatible with all Mac Pros.
nVidia has no relationship with UEFI.org at all as I understand it. AMD (parent of ATI) and Apple do (both are part of the 11 corporate member Promoter group = board of directors).
 

MacRoysan

macrumors newbie
Jul 22, 2010
19
0
ROM for my ATI Sapphire HD 5870

Hi Rominator!

Thanks for your response! I would be very happy if you wanted to make a ROM for my ATI Sapphire HD 5870

Sincerely / MacRoysan :) :apple:

Hi The Rominator!


Here it is
 

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Cindori

macrumors 68040
Jan 17, 2008
3,527
378
Sweden
5870 on apple store now. $449. that is not much more then the PC card, also when you get Mac power cables.
 

Courthold

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2005
48
0
Hi Cindori,

Regarding that 5870 upgrade kit which is posted, is there any reason it wouldn't work in a 2008 Mac Pro (3,1)? The product page states it's only supported in late 09 models.
 

tezro

macrumors regular
Sep 7, 2007
175
1
They are posted on the Dutch Apple Store now as well.
Sadly they cost 249 Euro for the 5770 (PC version you can buy for 150 Euro average) and 449 Euro for the 5870 (PC version sells for about 380 Euro average).

So, prices are ridiculously high again, as expected.
Plus early-2008 is not supported, though it probably works fine with the next OS update.

5770 ships in 4-6 weeks, 5870 currently not available.
 

tezro

macrumors regular
Sep 7, 2007
175
1
Hi Cindori,

Regarding that 5870 upgrade kit which is posted, is there any reason it wouldn't work in a 2008 Mac Pro (3,1)? The product page states it's only supported in late 09 models.

My idea is that early-2008 isn't supported or on the site anymore.
That's all.
 

Novablas

macrumors member
Jun 19, 2010
52
0
Excited to know if the 5870 will work for 1,1 Macs.

If not, I've still got my flashed 4890 :)
 

kbonnel

macrumors 6502
Mar 1, 2004
471
2
In a nice place..
Got a question about flashing the PC 5770/5870.

Will the flash be similar to the ATI 1900 were the Mac version of the ATI 1900 ROM was put right on the PC ATI 1900, making it an effectively an exact copy? I know that the Mac and PC version of the ATI 1900 were the same (DVI ports, etc), so I am wondering if this will be a 100% conversion of the PC 5770/5870 since the PC version has different port configurations. (Dual DVI, HDMI, MDP) Or will the 5770/5870 be similar to the ROM manipulation of the 4890's?

I seem to recall that this was how some of the 512MB 4870 PC cards were flashed (just using the Mac 4870 ROM), but I am not sure.

K
 

MacVidCards

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Original poster
Nov 17, 2008
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Got a question about flashing the PC 5770/5870.

Will the flash be similar to the ATI 1900 were the Mac version of the ATI 1900 ROM was put right on the PC ATI 1900, making it an effectively an exact copy? I know that the Mac and PC version of the ATI 1900 were the same (DVI ports, etc), so I am wondering if this will be a 100% conversion of the PC 5770/5870 since the PC version has different port configurations. (Dual DVI, HDMI, MDP) Or will the 5770/5870 be similar to the ROM manipulation of the 4890's?

I seem to recall that this was how some of the 512MB 4870 PC cards were flashed (just using the Mac 4870 ROM), but I am not sure.

K

If you re-read the thread, you will see that Netkas used the iMac EFI ROM to put these together. It works, but this isn't the "final" EFI ROM from the retail cards. As soon as someone dumps and posts the ROM (or privately mails it to myself or Netkas ) we will have the rest of the answers.

So far, we have used the PC BIOS mixed in with EFI, just like with 1Gig versions of 4870. Your memory is correct that 4870 512 Meg cards frequently can use stock Mac ROM, no fiddling needed.
 

kbonnel

macrumors 6502
Mar 1, 2004
471
2
In a nice place..
If you re-read the thread, you will see that Netkas used the iMac EFI ROM to put these together. It works, but this isn't the "final" EFI ROM from the retail cards. As soon as someone dumps and posts the ROM (or privately mails it to myself or Netkas ) we will have the rest of the answers.

So far, we have used the PC BIOS mixed in with EFI, just like with 1Gig versions of 4870. Your memory is correct that 4870 512 Meg cards frequently can use stock Mac ROM, no fiddling needed.

Hi,

Yea, I understand how you were able to get the PC 5770/5870 to work right now with the iMac rom, and I guess my question will eventually be answered as soon as a Mac 5770/5870 ROM is out in the wild to see if the PC version of the card can just be flashed without ROM modifications.

I will probably go with the Mac version of the card, as with my work discount it is only a tad bit higher than a PC version. (Just have to wait till it is released :( )..

K
 
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