Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[TopherMan12]

I went back to Windows 10 for my personal computer. A combination of not being able to work on large VS 2019 projects and being tired of not being able to do any of my old games with PlayOnMac with OS Catalina. (Age of Empires). I make my $ with Windows only.

Picked up an XPS desktop at Costco this week for super cheap, spent $300 making it into a beast of machine, took the Radeon RX 580 out of the Sonnet EGPU I was using for my MBP and put it into the XPS 9830. The performance is insane. Windows 10 is instant, smooth, no lag.

I work all day on Windows 10 and ... this is my first Windows 10 personal machine for the last 5+ years. Wow I'm impressed. I agree with the OP... Windows 10 on good hardware feels like lightning. No lag, super fast, works well, and I feel at home once again. However, I love Mac OS and Apple hardware.

Being able to play all the old games again - WoW / Starcraft on Ultra is nice. Age of Empires II DE, Warcraft II... . My family, friends and I still play a game of AOE every month or so (haven't since OS Catalina).


But I have similar problems... my wife still wants to use iMessage. WhatsApp, GroupMe, Skype leave MUCH to be desired for communication.

I use Office / OneNote / OneDrive so data wise I'm ok.

DayOne is probably the most used Mac only app I use that I really like.

Mac does a lot of things better (ease of use, syncing, etc.).

I'm pretty happy with the world I have now.
High end Windows desktop with a 4k monitor.
MBP 2017.
iPad/iPhone.

Grieved to see GoToMyPc is so damn expensive these days.

I'm loving my Razer eGPU. Decoupling the GPU from the PC is brilliant and makes gaming on a laptop a lot less expensive in the long run. I was extremely disappointed that I couldn't get it all to work on Mac with boot camp, to be honest. I dreamed of a machine where I could develop for both iOS and VS apps while still having access to all my games. Unfortunately that just doesn't exist without a significant amount of effort and some illegal shenanigans. I wanted the best of both worlds, but right now I don't think it exists.

 

[kazmac]

Of course, I am thinking Windows again. macOS and iOS/iPad OS are quite frustrating as I find more ways that Apple is locking down software and trying to force you into using iCloud etc. I returned the 16" MBP and the 3rd gen iPP. The only thing I liked about the iPP was it had much better internet connectivity than any other Apple product we own. My Air 3 is fine for art for now.

So PCs, will wait until I see how well I acclimate to using a Lenovo Yoga in clamshell mode at work this Spring.

My arthritis being the sticking point in using a laptop in the traditional manner, I am trying to open my mind to a clamshell set up which folks have mentioned / suggested other threads. Given the uncertainty of Apple's laptops (build and heat) there is no way I'd clamshell a 16" MBP.

So, again, I am looking at Razer.

But what do I look for if I need a laptop to operate in clamshell mode? Would it be the cooling system etc.? Would it be wiser to use an eGPU while working in clamshell mode rather than buying a laptop with a powerful eGPU?

<At this point I fully get that there is no one machine that will do everything I want, but the video conversions are a much bigger sticking point than I expected. That, and running art software and a Wacom.>

Thanks, as usual.

 

[TopherMan12]

Of course, I am thinking Windows again. macOS and iOS/iPad OS are quite frustrating as I find more ways that Apple is locking down software and trying to force you into using iCloud etc. I returned the 16" MBP and the 3rd gen iPP. The only thing I liked about the iPP was it had much better internet connectivity than any other Apple product we own. My Air 3 is fine for art for now.

So PCs, will until I see how well I acclimate to using a Lenovo Yoga in clamshell mode at work this Spring.

My arthritis being the sticking point in using a laptop in the traditional manner, I am trying to open my mind to a clamshell set up which folks have mentioned / suggested other threads. Given the uncertainty of Apple's laptops (build and heat) there is no way I'd clamshell a 16" MBP.

So, again, I am looking at Razer.

But what do I look for if I need a laptop to operate in clamshell mode? Would it be the cooling system etc.? Would it be wiser to use an eGPU while working in clamshell mode rather than buying a laptop with a powerful eGPU?

<At this point I fully get that there is no one machine that will do everything I want, but the video conversions are a much bigger sticking point than I expected. That, and running art software and a Wacom.>

Thanks, as usual.

Unless you need to have that GPU power on the go then I definitely recommend the eGPU route with a laptop. I don't run my Lenovo Yoga C940 in clamshell mode as I like having a third screen and the ability to unlock via fingerprint, but offloading the bulk and heat to an external enclosure is an ideal solution for the reasons you mentioned.

My setup posted on egpu.io

 

[maflynn]

I'm kicking around the idea of an egpu, @TopherMan12, what made you decide on the AMD GPU vs. an RTX?

 

[TopherMan12]

I'm kicking around the idea of an egpu, @TopherMan12, what made you decide on the AMD GPU vs. an RTX?

At the time, I was attempting to use the eGPU with a MacBook and Nvidia isn't supported. But the 5700 XT performs better than the 2060 Super (benchmarks I've seen) but not as good at the 2070. So for the money it is a good buy. I've used both Nvidia and AMD in the past and I always go with best bang for the buck although if all things are equal, I usually side with Nvidia in Windows. Turns out the 5700 XT is really awesome card. No regrets.

 

[Anarchy99]

Hackintosh

 

[soulreaver99]

It's funny that MacOS can easily support an AMD Radeon graphics card when you use an eGPU, and not an Nvidia based GPU... and then it becomes the exact opposite when you BootCamp. Wish there was an easy way to have it work both ways without jumping through hoops.

 

[TopherMan12]

It's funny that MacOS can easily support an AMD Radeon graphics card when you use an eGPU, and not an Nvidia based GPU... and then it becomes the exact opposite when you BootCamp. Which there was an easy way to have it work both ways without jumping through hoops.

Yep. That catch 22 is why I gave up on Mac. If Apple can ever sort that out then I may give Mac another shot. Gaming on Mac with an eGPU just isn't a viable option right now, unfortunately.

 

[LiE_]

So I sold my Mac mini and 23.7 Ultrafine and picked up a new base model 5K iMac to test out. Love the screen and with the upgrade to SSD performance is good. I’ve upgraded the memory too, with AppleCare via education discount it cost £1900. Not bad.

However I can’t stop specing a PC to build. £2000 gets something pretty damn good. I just don’t know if I’ll regret it. The initial buzz and build will be good but once the honey moon period is over...

 

[LeeW]

picked up a new base model 5K iMac to test out.

I had been looking at one recently in the refurb store but I feel sure there is a new design just around the corner so waiting it out. Not a fan of the AIO per se however with some work options coming up it is actually a good move but will wait and see what the next event produces.

 

[LiE_]

I had been looking at one recently in the refurb store but I feel sure there is a new design just around the corner so waiting it out. Not a fan of the AIO per se however with some work options coming up it is actually a good move but will wait and see what the next event produces.

I think even if we see a new iMac design it will probably be more expensive, no guarantee RAM will be user upgradable and for my usage no noticeable difference.

I’m also not sold on the AIO idea which is part of the reason I’m looking at Windows custom build PC again. I’ve tried pretty much all Apple computers in my price range and find something lacking with them.

 

[vinegarshots]

With hacked Bootcamp GPU drivers, I get great performance out of Gears of War 5, Oculus Rift games, etc on my base model iMac Pro, and Gears looks amazing on the Retina display

 

[LeeW]

I think even if we see a new iMac design it will probably be more expensive, no guarantee RAM will be user upgradable

Not convinced, with the pricing and spec of the MBP 16, a newer and cheaper iPhone SE coming I don't think they are going to go more expensive or remove user-upgradeable ram.

Tim knows that with their focus moving to services, they need to ramp up the user base and that means halting the price increases for something just because it is new.

So I am anticipating a new design, all SSD, upgradeable RAM will remain and the price is going to be around where it is at right now.

It will be interesting to see what they do this year.

 

[vinegarshots]

Not convinced, with the pricing and spec of the MBP 16, a newer and cheaper iPhone SE coming I don't think they are going to go more expensive or remove user-upgradeable ram.

Tim knows that with their focus moving to services, they need to ramp up the user base and that means halting the price increases for something just because it is new.

So I am anticipating a new design, all SSD, upgradeable RAM will remain and the price is going to be around where it is at right now.

It will be interesting to see what they do this year.

RAM isn't user upgradable on the iMac Pro. Not hard to imagine that they wouldn't carry that over to the normal iMac, too...

 

[LeeW]

RAM isn't user upgradable on the iMac Pro. Not hard to imagine that they wouldn't carry that over to the normal iMac, too...

different starting position, different product. At the consumer end I see a different path

 

[user_xyz]

I'm someone who struggles to be content with either Mac or Windows. Over the past 5 years I have changed from Mac to Windows, back to Mac and find myself pondering the switch again back to Windows. During the switch I have also moved ecosystems where I was solely on Google when using Windows, but moved back into Apple ecosystem where I am now.

There are pros/cons for each system.

For Mac
Pros: I love the Retina display, the aesthetics of the OS, the yearly improvements, the native apps and the integration.

Cons: I dislike the cost to performance ratio, the weak iGPU in the Mac mini, the small daily issues (bluetooth Audio randomly cuts out for a few seconds on a call, safari lags hard on some websites, AirPlay to my HomePod being ropey, etc) and office isn't as polished, gaming isn't as accessible (tried the eGPU thing, that has it's own issues).

For Windows
Pros: I love that I can build a PC to my exact specs, get something that is very powerful, play games easily, office apps run tons better, so much more flexibility when it comes to configurations and hardware.

Cons: I dislike the lack of retina - I tried a 4K monitor with Windows scaling and the experience was so so. This usually means I'm running a 1440p monitor which doesn't look as crisp as my 4K UltraFine. I don't like the built in apps for mail and calendar, usually resort to using Outlook or Google calendar. The OS doesn't look as good and feels a little stale year to year.


The last time I switched to Windows I changed ecosystems, this time I am considering just having my desktop as Windows. This doesn't actually bring too many issues in terms of the apps I use and integration. Majority of people I message use WhatsApp, but I still have access to iMessage on my iPhone. My calendar is already in Google, and using iCloud email is fine, just add it to Outlook. Photos I pretty much exclusively use/edit on my phone. I don't take calls on my Mac mini because the experience hasn't been good. I would probably move back to Spotify and sell the HomePod, the rest of the house is Sonos and Google home mini which work better with Spotify.

Thanks for reading. Mostly a brain dump to help order my thoughts. Still undecided. I did toy with the idea of having both systems, but I don't have space.

I only use my mac mini for logic and use my win 10 pc for everything else.
of course I have a iphone that I use while mobile.
I would be lost without windows!

 

[LiE_]

I only use my mac mini for logic and use my win 10 pc for everything else.
of course I have a iphone that I use while mobile.
I would be lost without windows!

What makes you prefer W10 over macOS as your daily driver?

 

[user_xyz]

What makes you prefer W10 over macOS as your daily driver?

I'm used to win-since 1993 windows for workgroups 3.11
It does everything I need
"It just Works!!"
easy to build a powerhouse pc!! ie., change video card, memory, storage.

I use mac for logic.
and iphone is best phone!

 

[LiE_]

I'm used to win-since 1993 windows for workgroups 3.11
It does everything I need
"It just Works!!"
easy to build a powerhouse pc!! ie., change video card, memory, storage.

I use mac for logic.
and iphone is best phone!

Which eco system do you use?

 

[iphone3gnj]

I've been considering switching from my base iMac Pro to a Windows 10 custom PC. I bought the iMP through Micro Center and got the discount. When I switched to Mac back in 2011, the OS was much better than Windows. Now on Catalina, I can't say the same. While I don't have apps freezing, there are performance glitches. I decided to put Windows 10 in boot camp, and Windows is generally faster. Just think of how much faster it would be on a Ryzen 3950x, Nvidia graphics card, and PCIE 4.0 hard drive.

Now that I have an all in one, I want to get out of it. The monitor is nice, but I have found a 4k 32" monitor that I run in dual setup that I personally find better. Plus for calibration it's hardware programmable. The iMP is not. I see the longevity is generally good, but I'm always concerned about it becoming a paper weight once Apple Care+ ends.

I generally like the usability/productivity better on macOS. For example, it handles mutliple desktops better with each monitor having it's own desktop vs Windows having 1 desktop span 2 monitors. Font rendering is generally better on macOS even with my 4k monitor being non-scaled for retina but true 4k resolution. Ironically, remote desktop on jump desktop works much better than Windows RD application. There is no way for tabs in Windows explorer. And the UI elements, multiple setting panels, registry, and general Windows quirks are there.

I'm going to continue messing around with bootcamp to see if it can work out. I've done the Hackintosh route in the past, and that is what actually was the deciding point to switch to mac hardware. I'm not sure if it is worth doing again with all of the settings. Plus selling my iMP and buying a similar specced PC would be the same price. At least the Ryzen build gives me more cores, RAM, and PCIE 4.

If I needed a laptop, I would stick with macOS as I prefer Macbooks. I love my iPhone and 1st gen IPP. It may not be a bad idea to go mixed ecosystem.

 

[LeeW]

It may not be a bad idea to go mixed ecosystem.

I have tried and tried to stick with macOS only, issues and constraints made me venture away but ultimately it is the best option for productivity in my case. So moan as I do about Apple I just can't do without them right now.

So mixed-ecosystem was my choice. MBP 16" docked for use with dual screens when at my desk. when I am on the move and need portability mac is the most useful.

Then I have my PC for everything else, for now, happy with that.

 

[LiE_]

Update time.

I’ve ordered a monitor to begin moving to a PC. I do prefer macOS but I need to be honest with myself - Windows can do everything I need equally and in many cases better. I use Chrome and Office for my job and my hobbies include Lightroom and games.

I have tried all the Apple hardware within budget and each has its own reason for not working for me. A PC is going to allow a superior hardware configuration and tailoring for me.

I’m unsure on the mixed ecosystem currently. I will asses as I go. I have an iPhone and use iCloud for some things like photos, but I am sitting slightly ecosystem agnostic with my calendar and emails.

The problem I have with the iMac is for the same money I can get a really well specced PC. Ryzen 3900x, RTX 2070 Super, 144hz monitor, quiet and strong cooling.

 

[maflynn]

I do prefer macOS but I need to be honest with myself - Windows can do everything I need equally and in many cases better.

I preferred macOS myself, but like you said, Windows can do everything macOS can, and I will say it can do more. Granted, there are things that macOS does better, but overall I do feel (at least for my needs), Windows does a better job.

 

[GalileoSeven]

Back when I had the space for multiple machines and was still into photography, sure, I was an Apple/Mac die hard - browsing/surfing/composing.......basically every day to day, low-intensity task my macs handled with aplomb, while I could also turn to a homebuilt PC for gaming whenever the mood struck me.

Circumstances change though. I've gotten busier and fallen away from photography as a hobby while I'm also living in a much more confined space. Lacking the luxury of space to spread out as well as getting back in to gaming, I've had to reconsider my setup as of late.


When I'm on the go and my iPhone XR just won't do, I've ditched my 11" MBA for a 5th Gen iPad Mini. At home, a new laptop (model in signature below) has let me combine day-to-day and gaming tasks in one slim but stout package.

Yeah, you have to deal with all the traditional quirks associated with Windows, but having used W10 on a dual-monitor setup at work for quite a while now, I've found that it gives away very little in terms of usability/productivity to macOS.

As far as interoperability goes, I had to do a little tweaking to get my calendars to sync (use W10's default calendar app & then the default iOS calendar app on my phone) and had to switch to LastPass (since I ditched my MBA), but other than that, I really haven't experienced much downtime making the switch.

 

[LiE_]

Update time.

I’ve ordered a monitor to begin moving to a PC. I do prefer macOS but I need to be honest with myself - Windows can do everything I need equally and in many cases better. I use Chrome and Office for my job and my hobbies include Lightroom and games.

I have tried all the Apple hardware within budget and each has its own reason for not working for me. A PC is going to allow a superior hardware configuration and tailoring for me.

I’m unsure on the mixed ecosystem currently. I will asses as I go. I have an iPhone and use iCloud for some things like photos, but I am sitting slightly ecosystem agnostic with my calendar and emails.

The problem I have with the iMac is for the same money I can get a really well specced PC. Ryzen 3900x, RTX 2070 Super, 144hz monitor, quiet and strong cooling.

The flip flop struggle is real.

While I was away on a break in my down time I found myself looking at PCs and speccing them out, I even bought a monitor that has been out of stock for quite while. I was set on getting a PC for the reasons mentioned in my post above.

I then slept on it and a couple days later I'm home from my break, back on my 5K iMac editing some photos from said break. I realised how comfortable and content I am when using my iMac/macOS. I think part of moving to PC is that initial buzz with getting something new, but I know deep down I will regret giving up the things macOS provides.

I will just have to accept the few short comings of the iMac, but also keep in mind the things it does so very well.

I refused delivery of the monitor today and will hopefully put this to bed for some years. I may revisit things if a new iMac is released.