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I think the thing that surprises me the most is... That there seem to be so many people who find the mouse cumbersome. Now, I think this is not the case for a LARGE majority of the population (i.e. casual users of PCs/Macs).

Admittedly, I am only 28, so I don't remember a time when the mouse was not ubiquitous...

Maybe my hands are just really fast, since most of these people say it takes them too long to reach over to their mouse :) I find it takes me barely any time at all.

I'm honestly just not sure what the problem is with including mouse support. If you want to use a mouse, use it, just like with a PC. We can already KIND of use the Pencil and styli like mouses to a certain degree. This hasn't broken anything...

And I do have a question for the naysayers... Do you use the mouse when you write on a PC or Mac? I'm not saying this in an argumentative way, I am actually curious.
 
I think the thing that surprises me the most is... That there seem to be so many people who find the mouse cumbersome. Now, I think this is not the case for a LARGE majority of the population (i.e. casual users of PCs/Macs).

Admittedly, I am only 28, so I don't remember a time when the mouse was not ubiquitous...

Maybe my hands are just really fast, since most of these people say it takes them too long to reach over to their mouse :) I find it takes me barely any time at all.

I'm honestly just not sure what the problem is with including mouse support. If you want to use a mouse, use it, just like with a PC. We can already KIND of use the Pencil and styli like mouses to a certain degree. This hasn't broken anything...

And I do have a question for the naysayers... Do you use the mouse when you write on a PC or Mac? I'm not saying this in an argumentative way, I am actually curious.
Your question, to me, goes beyond the OP's original question. What is the purpose of a mouse? I started working with PCs in 1984, when DOS was the one of the primary operating systems. My first job was writing dBase code. I used Word (DOS version) as my code editor because it supported split Windows (in PCDOS) and allowed me to do cut and paste between the Word windows it also supported using a mouse. I could use the mouse to select text to copy and paste between the Word windows. (Remember, this was before "Windows" as a user interface/operating system was available. In a PC/Windows environment the mouse is essential. However, there are many times when I use keyboard combinations to speed up selections or actions when moving my hand to a mouse would slow things down.
The iOS environment changes everything. It is designed for touch. The first iPhone was introduced in 2007 and everything in the iOS operating system is focused on touch. It doesn't appear to support a mouse, since most iOS users won't have mouse with them (think iPhone) when they are using the device.
I use a mouse well (both right handed and left handed) when necessary on a PC. I do not see the need when I am using my iPad.
 
Do you use the mouse when you write on a PC or Mac?

When writing? No, not really. Everything I need to do while writing is doable without a mouse. At least, that is true in the Windows version of Word. With Pages on a Mac, there are some functions that I need a mouse to access. I consider that a design flaw in the software. :p
 
Your question, to me, goes beyond the OP's original question. What is the purpose of a mouse? I started working with PCs in 1984, when DOS was the one of the primary operating systems. My first job was writing dBase code. I used Word (DOS version) as my code editor because it supported split Windows (in PCDOS) and allowed me to do cut and paste between the Word windows it also supported using a mouse. I could use the mouse to select text to copy and paste between the Word windows. (Remember, this was before "Windows" as a user interface/operating system was available. In a PC/Windows environment the mouse is essential. However, there are many times when I use keyboard combinations to speed up selections or actions when moving my hand to a mouse would slow things down.
The iOS environment changes everything. It is designed for touch. The first iPhone was introduced in 2007 and everything in the iOS operating system is focused on touch. It doesn't appear to support a mouse, since most iOS users won't have mouse with them (think iPhone) when they are using the device.
I use a mouse well (both right handed and left handed) when necessary on a PC. I do not see the need when I am using my iPad.


Well stated. I don't agree with you about not adding mouse support to iOS, but I do respect your opinion.
 
Your question, to me, goes beyond the OP's original question. What is the purpose of a mouse? I started working with PCs in 1984, when DOS was the one of the primary operating systems. My first job was writing dBase code. I used Word (DOS version) as my code editor because it supported split Windows (in PCDOS) and allowed me to do cut and paste between the Word windows it also supported using a mouse. I could use the mouse to select text to copy and paste between the Word windows. (Remember, this was before "Windows" as a user interface/operating system was available. In a PC/Windows environment the mouse is essential. However, there are many times when I use keyboard combinations to speed up selections or actions when moving my hand to a mouse would slow things down.
The iOS environment changes everything. It is designed for touch. The first iPhone was introduced in 2007 and everything in the iOS operating system is focused on touch. It doesn't appear to support a mouse, since most iOS users won't have mouse with them (think iPhone) when they are using the device.
I use a mouse well (both right handed and left handed) when necessary on a PC. I do not see the need when I am using my iPad.

Great question. "What is the purpose of a mouse?". This is also very pertinent : "I started working with PCs in 1984, when DOS was the one of the primary operating systems." I've also used computers professionally when it was just a terminal.

In a nutshell, the mouse let us point at things accurately. This allowed for windowing, which allowed same screen multi tasking. It also allowed for quick navigation to different window elements - this can include the content which could be text, or (thanks to the mouse) graphical content, or quickly jump to a spreadsheet cell, rotate a 3D model etc.

So the mouse let us do old things faster - jump accurately in text documents, and accurately and quickly select text, spreadsheet cells, etc. It also let us do new things - graphics, 3D models, quick window selection. You can also just ignore the mouse when it slows you down.

For argument sake, lets call the majority of those tasks actual WORK. I'm not belittling anyone, just for argument sake lets define those as work. Folks get hired to write, design, 3D model, do spreadsheets, etc. All of these require accurate pointing.


You say "The iOS environment changes everything. It is designed for touch." Yup. And look at the software that was included with the original iPhone. They are all personal, communication, or utility apps. Generally, and please excuse this generalization, people don't get paid professionally to email, browse, check the weather, use maps, call someone. All essential PERSONAL tools, but not WORK.


So I'd like to draw a line in the sand. I'd like to put forth that WORK related tasks require accuracy. And in a nutshell, my fat fingers aren't given them to me. Which is completely fine for personal tasks, but not, from what I've seen, most traditional work tasks.

Was the mouse better than the terminal at work tasks ? Could it be used in conjunction with pure terminal text type interactions and make them faster ? Yup. Could it make other traditional tasks like spreadsheets and writing better ? Yup. Did it usher in a new type of work ? Yup.

Is Touch a step forward in these WORK tasks ? Not from what I've seen. Will it bring forward a revolution in design using Touch ? Unlikely. Will it bring the revolution with the Pencil ? Yup maybe - but then thats not Touch. Maybe for the Creative Arts the iPad with Pencil will usher in a revolution just like the Mac did. That would be awesome. But the Mac managed to do that AND also make old tasks better - it didn't get in the way of old tasks.

Also, if this is the case with a revolution work focused on graphic arts, why did Apple go out of its way to introduce a keyboard case for it but then ignore the revolution of accurately selecting things ? If Apple's iPad keyboard was a flat surface that acted as a huge trackpad, then it would of been like the Mac. It makes old things better, and it introduces new ways to work. Now that would of been a current day revolution.
 
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One more thing: people hate change and hate learning new ways to do stuff.

...especially if the new method isn't helping them get their work done more efficiently or easily.

Guys - It's possible that a mouse is simply a better tool for some things.

"new way" does not always mean "better way" - In this context, it just means "different way".
 
But on my iPad Pro the Pencil is way better than a mouse.

For you...yes..
For others, not necessarily.

Can we just at least agree that people have different views on this?

You actually agreed with what we've all been saying:

...on my computer I simply cannot work without a mouse.

Some people like & want to use their iPad in the way that you use your computer...

..and thus the mouse is essential for them.
 
Wow, what a bunch of Luddites. You're 28? You've been using computers since 1984? You guys have only known the GUI/mouse/trackball environment. There is always an outcry when something new comes along. You are too young to remember the hue and cry when the Lisa and Mac were introduced. "You mean I have to move my hand off the keyboard???" I can go farther back to when the handheld calculator was introduced. "I am much faster on my slide rule!"

History repeats itself...
 
Can we just at least agree that people have different views on this?

Yes, we can. We're all different.

It's just weird how in this particular topic we've started discussing about the need for a mouse for text editing when using a real keyboard. This makes me think some people don't really know how to use a keyboard more efficiently. And maybe if they learn to use simple shortcuts like Cmd-up arrow or Cmd-down arrow, their life will be easier and they will stop complaining about the lack of mouse support on a tablet. When editing text.

But yes, people are different, they can do whatever they want.
 
And I do have a question for the naysayers... Do you use the mouse when you write on a PC or Mac? I'm not saying this in an argumentative way, I am actually curious.

I don't use a mouse at my Mac. It has a Magic Trackpad for years and I would never go back to a mouse.
 
I have both a trackpad and mouse on my Mac. I prefer and use the mouse more than the trackpad. Just goes to show that everyone is different.

Again, I can understand why someone might object to mouse control if it meant giving up something else on the iPad. But, as it would simply be an additional feature/capability, I see no reason at all why anyone would be negatively affected if Apple added this. It would be OPTIONAL to use it. Touch control would still be there.
 
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But it would be giving up on *forced* touch design. Many devs will just build junk with it and say "use the mouse".

I would agree if it was the "wild west" and there was no control over apps. But, since the app store is curated and there are software requirements and guidelines set out by Apple, I highly doubt that apps would suddenly just be junk. Apple could just stipulate that all software designed for iOS must be fully functional via touch control only. Mouse would just be a secondary control method.

Besides, a mouse does the same thing a finger does, except with more accuracy in some cases.

A couple of years ago, I tried using my iPad instead of my MacBook for note taking at a conference I attended and I left my MBP at home. I had the iPad propped up in an Origami stand and the Apple BT keyboard for typing. After using it for a while, I remember desperately wanting to have a mouse too that would then completely simulate my sitting at a computer. I didn't like having to lift my hand to the screen when in this mode of use. I much preferred having a mouse just to the right of the keyboard where I would just slide my hand over to it and not lift my hand off of the table. I eventually reverted back to using my MacBook Pro.

I would just love to see the iPad offer mouse control because I know I would use it a lot while in "desktop mode".

That's just how I feel about it anyway and I always appreciate a healthy debate on things like this. :)
 
I would agree if it was the "wild west" and there was no control over apps. But, since the app store is curated and there are software requirements and guidelines set out by Apple, I highly doubt that apps would suddenly just be junk. Apple could just stipulate that all software designed for iOS must be fully functional via touch control only.

Testing each and every UI control during the app approval process will be a nightmare for Apple and for the developers. Not going to happen.

I'd rather have an iPad running OS X instead of mouse support in iOS. If I'm going to use a mouse at least let me use it with real apps.
 
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I don't use a mouse at my Mac. It has a Magic Trackpad for years and I would never go back to a mouse.

I believe for the purposes of this discussion, "mouse" is a shorthand for any type of pointing device, including trackpads and trackballs.

A couple of years ago, I tried using my iPad instead of my MacBook for note taking at a conference I attended and I left my MBP at home. I had the iPad propped up in an Origami stand and the Apple BT keyboard for typing. After using it for a while, I remember desperately wanting to have a mouse too that would then completely simulate my sitting at a computer. I didn't like having to lift my hand to the screen

That was a couple of years ago. iOS 9 introduced a lot of keyboard shortcuts that have considerably cut down on the times I have to reach out and tap the screen while using an external keyboard with my iPad. I still have to touch the screen from time to time, but not so often that I feel desperate for a mouse.
 
...stuff...
The upright bass is still a mainstream instrument. The electric bass is also a mainstream instrument but no one is saying, "Fender, you must create a bow interface for the electric bass!"

Luddite -- long press, select, define.

LMFAO

iOS is a touch interface, Mac OS is a pointer interface. If you really want the pointer interface, buy the MacBook. I really don't understand the vitriol toward the iPP.
 
The upright bass is still a mainstream instrument. The electric bass is also a mainstream instrument but no one is saying, "Fender, you must create a bow interface for the electric bass!"

Luddite -- long press, select, define.

LMFAO

iOS is a touch interface, Mac OS is a pointer interface. If you really want the pointer interface, buy the MacBook. I really don't understand the vitriol toward the iPP.

It's not vitriol towards the iPP, it's the observation that the iPP would be more useful to a lot of people with the addition of mouse support. I'd far prefer having that and being able to live with a single device than having to use multiple devices.
 
But it would be giving up on *forced* touch design. Many devs will just build junk with it and say "use the mouse".

I think those same devs who would build junk in this case would probably build junk anyways. Sensible devs will build good apps supporting what users want (and are willing to pay for). And nobody would force you to buy junk apps.
 
I think those same devs who would build junk in this case would probably build junk anyways. Sensible devs will build good apps supporting what users want (and are willing to pay for). And nobody would force you to buy junk apps.

Exactly - You can believe that MS would add in great testing for the iOS Office apps if a mouse were an option.
I guarantee you they know that people prefer things like Excel with a Mouse.

Some tools are simply better at certain tasks.
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Yes, exactly... I would actually prefer a trackpad for my iPad to a mouse.

Yep - Pointing device is definitely what we should be saying here - agreed.
 
Exactly - You can believe that MS would add in great testing for the iOS Office apps if a mouse were an option.
I guarantee you they know that people prefer things like Excel with a Mouse.

Some tools are simply better at certain tasks.

I don't use Excel very much, but I do use it for relatively simple tasks. I have it on my iPad. I don't use it for more than updating one cell. Otherwise I go to my laptop.

I also have Word on my iPad. Use it to read documents only... Just refuse to do anything else because it is cumbersome. Unfortunately, it is a beautiful app and I'd love to use it more.

I DO use Onenote on my iPad though... Basically as a replacement for Evernote. It is plodding on the iPad, but I usually just update minor things that I've already created on my laptop.

All around very impressed with Office on iOS... Very unimpressed with Apple's decision to not allow pointing devices...
 
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