for all who said that Lion is Apple's Vista..

[RJCP]

... I suggest you go and buy a new PC and experience for yourselves how much it ISN'T "out of the box"... I've spent the last freakin' 90 minutes setting up a friend's new PC!

74 bloody updates to download and install. Why doesn't Microsoft just joint this in a single upgrade instead of downloading 74 updates and installing them individually???

Then I tried to browse the web while it was installing the upgrades... Terrible idea... isn't this supposed to a multi-tasking OS??

Sorry, I just needed to vent...

 

[MisterMe]

...

Then I tried to browse the web while it was installing the upgrades... Terrible idea... isn't this supposed to a multi-tasking OS??

...

Windows is a multi-tasking OS in the sense that it makes you sigh and shake your head at the same time. To your larger question, it would probably be prohibitively expensive and more than a little dangerous to roll all of those updates into a single download. For one reason, Microsoft releases multiple updates each week. For another, many users decline to install them--sometimes with good reason.

 

[Moccasin]

I agree - whenever I power up my Sony laptop (3 years old), it requires at least 1, often 2 or more, reboots before I can use it. As well as Windows updates, security fixes and the like, you get Flash, Java, virus check and umpteen other patches.

That's of course when the thing actually boots up, which these days seems to take about 5 minutes.

 

[RJCP]

Windows is a multi-tasking OS in the sense that it makes you sigh and shake your head at the same time. To your larger question, it would probably be prohibitively expensive and more than a little dangerous to roll all of those updates into a single download. For one reason, Microsoft releases multiple updates each week. For another, many users decline to install them--sometimes with good reason.

still updating... 49 of 74!

 

[baryon]

What I like with Windows is that when you first install it, there is no internet connection. Then you can't figure out why because you can't access Google to ask someone, so you have to fiddle with your freaking TCP/IP protocols and **** for days. Then you give up, and just randomly change every setting you can freaking think of. Then, out of nowhere, you're able to connect to the router, but still no internet. Then you realize that you need to install some driver for your network card, but you can't install it since you have no internet connection, and the driver is probably online somewhere. Or on a CD somewhere that you should have gotten with your computer 5 years ago. That CD also installs 9 stupid applications that keep asking you random things and you're afraid of even inserting the disk into your computer for that reason.

Then you reboot like 10 times and whack the computer some more, when suddenly you're online. You have NO IDEA how you did it, and next time you reinstall Windows (probably very soon), you'll have the same problem and you won't know what you did last time to make it work.

Then you must use Internet Explorer to download Chrome.

Last time I installed a Windows update, I got a Blue Screen and the entire computer crashed so badly, that the data on the hard drive was totally irrecoverable, not even by Linux. Formatting the drive was impossible under Windows, so I needed to do all of that on Linux as well.

 

[colourfastt]

10.7 is NOT Apple's Vista; it's more like Windows Millenium Edition

 

[RJCP]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; pt-pt) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

10.7 is NOT Apple's Vista; it's more like Windows Millenium Edition

With the exception it actually works...

 

[Gomff]

What I like with Windows is that when you first install it, there is no internet connection. Then you can't figure out why because you can't access Google to ask someone, so you have to fiddle with your freaking TCP/IP protocols and **** for days. Then you give up, and just randomly change every setting you can freaking think of. Then, out of nowhere, you're able to connect to the router, but still no internet. Then you realize that you need to install some driver for your network card, but you can't install it since you have no internet connection, and the driver is probably online somewhere. Or on a CD somewhere that you should have gotten with your computer 5 years ago. That CD also installs 9 stupid applications that keep asking you random things and you're afraid of even inserting the disk into your computer for that reason.

Then you reboot like 10 times and whack the computer some more, when suddenly you're online. You have NO IDEA how you did it, and next time you reinstall Windows (probably very soon), you'll have the same problem and you won't know what you did last time to make it work.

Then you must use Internet Explorer to download Chrome.

Last time I installed a Windows update, I got a Blue Screen and the entire computer crashed so badly, that the data on the hard drive was totally irrecoverable, not even by Linux. Formatting the drive was impossible under Windows, so I needed to do all of that on Linux as well.

Sorry but this is a complete over exageration. I like my Apple hardware just as much as anyone else around here but lets get some perspective. You haven't had to jump through all of those hoops to get Windows online for a long, long time.

I recently bought a PC for rendering because my Mac Pro is showing its age and getting online was very, very easy. Choose the router and enter a password: Done.

Lion is fine if you're a Twitbooker and you like dripfeeding Apple micro payments through the App store for Apps you never knew you needed (and probably didn't) but if you have some serious work to do like editing HD video, or 3D graphics then Lion has some big issues that need looking at.

 

[parapup]

Lion is fine if you're a Twitbooker and you like dripfeeding Apple micro payments through the App store for Apps you never knew you needed (and probably didn't) but if you have some serious work to do like editing HD video, or 3D graphics then Lion has some big issues that need looking at.

Yeah. That might sound a bit overboard but Windows for many people doing serious work is more productive. Finder vs. Explorer for example - There is no contest. And you can be fairly certain you will not have Windows allowing logons with wrong passwords because Microsoft cannot run its business without having a functional Engineering and QA department! Oh and you can also have your third parties too - no need to restrict your USB to just Flash drives!

Anyone complaining about Windows is either living in the long gone past or is just plain delusional.

 

[RJCP]

Yeah. That might sound a bit overboard but Windows for many people doing serious work is more productive. Finder vs. Explorer for example - There is no contest. And you can be fairly certain you will not have Windows allowing logons with wrong passwords because Microsoft cannot run its business without having a functional Engineering and QA department! Oh and you can also have your third parties too - no need to restrict your USB to just Flash drives!

Anyone complaining about Windows is either living in the long gone past or is just plain delusional.

Yeah, because having a notification wanting to confirm your every 2 clicks is highly productive. "Are you sure you want to download? Are you sure you want to install? Are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure you want to take the red pill? Are you sure you need to press the "on" button to power your machine".

 

[VPrime]

Yeah, because having a notification wanting to confirm your every 2 clicks is highly productive. "Are you sure you want to download? Are you sure you want to install? Are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure you want to take the red pill? Are you sure you need to press the "on" button to power your machine".

Windows vista was like that, windows7 is actually very similar to OSX in how much it asks 'are you sure?'

 

[baryon]

Sorry but this is a complete over exageration. I like my Apple hardware just as much as anyone else around here but lets get some perspective. You haven't had to jump through all of those hoops to get Windows online for a long, long time.

I recently bought a PC for rendering because my Mac Pro is showing its age and getting online was very, very easy. Choose the router and enter a password: Done.

Lion is fine if you're a Twitbooker and you like dripfeeding Apple micro payments through the App store for Apps you never knew you needed (and probably didn't) but if you have some serious work to do like editing HD video, or 3D graphics then Lion has some big issues that need looking at.

What I described was my personal experience, every single time I reinstalled Windows, on the two PCs I have ever owned. I'm sure most people don't have such problems, but a significant amount of Windows users do. In OS X you're not likely to have such problems, in my experience at least.

The OP said that Windows isn't as "out-of-the box" as OS X is, and I find it to be true. In OS X the first thing I do isn't: "quick, change the default browser, quick, change all the default settings, damn, I can't believe my USB device requires a driver to work, crap, to install this, I first need to install that, which requires that update, which won't install without that other thing...".

A fresh copy of Windows is like a new house without furniture. It's a nice start but it feels cold, empty, useless, and you need to "populate it" to make it personal. It requires loads of tweaking and changing stuff around to get it the way you like. A Mac, on the other hand, is pretty much useable as soon as you boot it for the first time. Sure, you need to change stuff too, but you don't cringe when you realize that IE is the only installed browser, and that the wallpaper is too ugly for you to continue using the computer without changing it.

The other thing is that - in my experience - Windows needs to be reinstalled regularly in order for it to work right, and therefore you need to deal with the above issues on a regular basis.

Of course, once again, sorry for speaking in general terms, all the above is only MY personal experience, and I'm sure many people don't feel that way at all.

 

[ZipZap]

What I described was my personal experience, every single time I reinstalled Windows, on the two PCs I have ever owned. I'm sure most people don't have such problems, but a significant amount of Windows users do. In OS X you're not likely to have such problems, in my experience at least.

The OP said that Windows isn't as "out-of-the box" as OS X is, and I find it to be true. In OS X the first thing I do isn't: "quick, change the default browser, quick, change all the default settings, damn, I can't believe my USB device requires a driver to work, crap, to install this, I first need to install that, which requires that update, which won't install without that other thing...".

A fresh copy of Windows is like a new house without furniture. It's a nice start but it feels cold, empty, useless, and you need to "populate it" to make it personal. It requires loads of tweaking and changing stuff around to get it the way you like. A Mac, on the other hand, is pretty much useable as soon as you boot it for the first time. Sure, you need to change stuff too, but you don't cringe when you realize that IE is the only installed browser, and that the wallpaper is too ugly for you to continue using the computer without changing it.

The other thing is that - in my experience - Windows needs to be reinstalled regularly in order for it to work right, and therefore you need to deal with the above issues on a regular basis.

Of course, once again, sorry for speaking in general terms, all the above is only MY personal experience, and I'm sure many people don't feel that way at all.

No one would disagree that Windows is not as easy to install as Mac OS...but that's pretty much all that can be said. Windows 7 has eliminated much of the old issues with (reinstalls, slowness, drivers).

Based upon my recent experience with Mac OS, having been a windows user since Win 3, Mac's have their share of problems and issues. These issues deminish as the OS matures. LION is very definately the Vista Nightmare equivelent. And this is not the first time a Mac OS has gone through this.

In my opinion, Windows is a far superior OS for most experienced computer users. Mac OS is better suited for the non-computer literate who need really cool apps but dont mess with much else. I.E., the typical average-joe customer.

 

[Gomff]

What I described was my personal experience, every single time I reinstalled Windows, on the two PCs I have ever owned. I'm sure most people don't have such problems, but a significant amount of Windows users do. In OS X you're not likely to have such problems, in my experience at least.

The OP said that Windows isn't as "out-of-the box" as OS X is, and I find it to be true. In OS X the first thing I do isn't: "quick, change the default browser, quick, change all the default settings, damn, I can't believe my USB device requires a driver to work, crap, to install this, I first need to install that, which requires that update, which won't install without that other thing...".

A fresh copy of Windows is like a new house without furniture. It's a nice start but it feels cold, empty, useless, and you need to "populate it" to make it personal. It requires loads of tweaking and changing stuff around to get it the way you like. A Mac, on the other hand, is pretty much useable as soon as you boot it for the first time. Sure, you need to change stuff too, but you don't cringe when you realize that IE is the only installed browser, and that the wallpaper is too ugly for you to continue using the computer without changing it.

The other thing is that - in my experience - Windows needs to be reinstalled regularly in order for it to work right, and therefore you need to deal with the above issues on a regular basis.

Of course, once again, sorry for speaking in general terms, all the above is only MY personal experience, and I'm sure many people don't feel that way at all.

All I can say is that you must have been very unlucky or it was a long time ago that you last had to set up a Windows PC.

If you buy a PC from Dell or the big manufacturers, there's more chance you're going to get crapware coming with it and you'll have to tune it a bit to get it how you want. I bought my PC from Overclockers in the UK and it just came with Windows 7 and nothing else. I set up my admin password, identified my router and password and that was it, I was done. The build quality is excellent. The i7 2600K CPU is overclocked to 4.6Ghz and is completely stable....It has been rendering solidly since I got it 4 days ago without a single hitch.

True, I had to use IE to download Firefox. But on my Mac I had to use Safari to download Firefox. Do I prefer Snow Leopard to Windows 7? Yes. What about Lion? The jury's still out on that one. I'll tell you one thing though....The PC renders light years faster than my 2008 Mac. To get the same performance on an iMac I'd have had to pay almost 3 x the price.

 

[jsoto]

What I described was my personal experience, every single time I reinstalled Windows, on the two PCs I have ever owned. I'm sure most people don't have such problems, but a significant amount of Windows users do. In OS X you're not likely to have such problems, in my experience at least.

The OP said that Windows isn't as "out-of-the box" as OS X is, and I find it to be true. In OS X the first thing I do isn't: "quick, change the default browser, quick, change all the default settings, damn, I can't believe my USB device requires a driver to work, crap, to install this, I first need to install that, which requires that update, which won't install without that other thing...".

A fresh copy of Windows is like a new house without furniture. It's a nice start but it feels cold, empty, useless, and you need to "populate it" to make it personal. It requires loads of tweaking and changing stuff around to get it the way you like. A Mac, on the other hand, is pretty much useable as soon as you boot it for the first time. Sure, you need to change stuff too, but you don't cringe when you realize that IE is the only installed browser, and that the wallpaper is too ugly for you to continue using the computer without changing it.

The other thing is that - in my experience - Windows needs to be reinstalled regularly in order for it to work right, and therefore you need to deal with the above issues on a regular basis.

Of course, once again, sorry for speaking in general terms, all the above is only MY personal experience, and I'm sure many people don't feel that way at all.

I support windows machines as I work in IT. I have been curious about Mac for the last 2 years or so started to read up on MacRumors. Then plunged on a MBP mid 2010 i7 last holiday season. I have been very happy! No regrets the learning curve wasn't that bad at all. Still don't know my way at all around Terminal. Which I am very intrigued to learn. Coming from Windows I use the command line quite a bit.

Now when I hear about people venting against Windows. Yes it has trial software "Bloatware" on a new pc. Everybody is trying to make a sale. I get sales calls & emails at work. Once you do the work of cleaning it & patching it. Windows 7 & Vista work great. Vista got a bad rap because their OEM partners do not do their job in creating the 64 bit drivers for the OS. MS learned its lesson & did not release 7 till OEM had done their work. Vista now works great. It just couldn't shake stigma. Same like MobileMe so Apple now wrapped the product in a new name called iCloud. Yes it has some new features & some features lost. Just like Vista to 7. There are some changes. Under the hood 7 is a glorified Service Pack to Vista. Which is great. That service pack was a great release. Same thing iCloud to MobileMe or Snow Leopard to Leopard. I for one love Windows & OS X. I am nearing my 1 year anniversary of using OS X as my main machine. I use Windows at work. At home I do all my Windows IT work on my mac with native apps & virtualization if need be. I think & excuse my language bitching about Windows is better than Mac or Mac is better than Windows is BS. They are both good & we would not have what we have today if they both didn't exist. They are both awesome! If you want to run Mac only that is fine. If you want to run Windows only that is fine also. If you want to use both as I do that is awesome as well! There is no need for this is better than that & so on. Yes Mac does things out of the box that Windows doesn't & Windows does things out of the box that Mac doesn't. Again they are both good. I view the pc & os as a tool. I'll give extra points to the mac hardware being aluminum & being the only hardware that supports booting OS X & Windows natively. That is awesome Once that was accomplished the compatibility went out the door & you could have the best of both worlds & I hopped aboard as have millions of users now.

Remember with no competition there is no innovation. OS X would not be today without Windows. Windows what not be today without OS X. If it wasn't for MS. Apple would not have gone thru 360 degree turn around from Steve Jobs let go to coming back to Apple with NeXT. So I respect both equally the same. Yes I am Mac fanboy & a Windows fanboy! So there!

 

[hayesk]

Vista was a problem with it's overaggressive system requirements, annoying UAC panel, and compatibility issues. It was panned by experts and novices alike.

Lion is only a problem to a bunch of people on a mac geek forum and anyone they can convince that the sky is falling because apple changed a few features they were used to.

This is aside from the standard bugs at come with major OS releases, that usually take two or three updates to get rid of.

 

[ctbear]

I support windows machines as I work in IT. I have been curious about Mac for the last 2 years or so started to read up on MacRumors. Then plunged on a MBP mid 2010 i7 last holiday season. I have been very happy! No regrets the learning curve wasn't that bad at all. Still don't know my way at all around Terminal. Which I am very intrigued to learn. Coming from Windows I use the command line quite a bit.

Now when I hear about people venting against Windows. Yes it has trial software "Bloatware" on a new pc. Everybody is trying to make a sale. I get sales calls & emails at work. Once you do the work of cleaning it & patching it. Windows 7 & Vista work great. Vista got a bad rap because their OEM partners do not do their job in creating the 64 bit drivers for the OS. MS learned its lesson & did not release 7 till OEM had done their work. Vista now works great. It just couldn't shake stigma. Same like MobileMe so Apple now wrapped the product in a new name called iCloud. Yes it has some new features & some features lost. Just like Vista to 7. There are some changes. Under the hood 7 is a glorified Service Pack to Vista. Which is great. That service pack was a great release. Same thing iCloud to MobileMe or Snow Leopard to Leopard. I for one love Windows & OS X. I am nearing my 1 year anniversary of using OS X as my main machine. I use Windows at work. At home I do all my Windows IT work on my mac with native apps & virtualization if need be. I think & excuse my language bitching about Windows is better than Mac or Mac is better than Windows is BS. They are both good & we would not have what we have today if they both didn't exist. They are both awesome! If you want to run Mac only that is fine. If you want to run Windows only that is fine also. If you want to use both as I do that is awesome as well! There is no need for this is better than that & so on. Yes Mac does things out of the box that Windows doesn't & Windows does things out of the box that Mac doesn't. Again they are both good. I view the pc & os as a tool. I'll give extra points to the mac hardware being aluminum & being the only hardware that supports booting OS X & Windows natively. That is awesome Once that was accomplished the compatibility went out the door & you could have the best of both worlds & I hopped aboard as have millions of users now.

Remember with no competition there is no innovation. OS X would not be today without Windows. Windows what not be today without OS X. If it wasn't for MS. Apple would not have gone thru 360 degree turn around from Steve Jobs let go to coming back to Apple with NeXT. So I respect both equally the same. Yes I am Mac fanboy & a Windows fanboy! So there!

Finally someone who understands why Vista isn't bad at all. Not even close to bad after SP2.

On topic: I don't understand why people keep complaining about Lion. There is not a whole lot changed in terms of user experience, albeit some slight adjustments are needed. They are probably the same people who complained about Vista being "worse than XP"

 

[ScottishCaptain]

A fresh copy of Windows is like a new house without furniture. It's a nice start but it feels cold, empty, useless, and you need to "populate it" to make it personal. It requires loads of tweaking and changing stuff around to get it the way you like. A Mac, on the other hand, is pretty much useable as soon as you boot it for the first time. Sure, you need to change stuff too, but you don't cringe when you realize that IE is the only installed browser, and that the wallpaper is too ugly for you to continue using the computer without changing it.

10.7 reminds me of the white room from 2001: A Space Odessy. Except the whole house is like that. And now the chairs are welded to the floor so you can't move or swap them out.

-SC

 

[jamezr]

... I suggest you go and buy a new PC and experience for yourselves how much it ISN'T "out of the box"... I've spent the last freakin' 90 minutes setting up a friend's new PC!

74 bloody updates to download and install. Why doesn't Microsoft just joint this in a single upgrade instead of downloading 74 updates and installing them individually???

Then I tried to browse the web while it was installing the upgrades... Terrible idea... isn't this supposed to a multi-tasking OS??

Sorry, I just needed to vent...

So which Windows OS did you install? Instead of doing all those updates did you think of doing a Service Pack instead? SPs usually have all the updates rolled into one. Not all of them but most of them. Plus Windows supports every PC makers hardware to some extent so it will need some updates. Did you go the vendors (HP, Dell, Lenovo, ASUS) site and get the drivers for the PC? I usually plan ahead and do this so as to not have problems. I love OSX (SL) but I also really like Win 7. I can usually be done with a Win 7 install in about 30 minutes including all the drivers and updates.

 

[Justinf79]

Windows 8 is the next Vista.

 

[jamezr]

I support windows machines as I work in IT. I have been curious about Mac for the last 2 years or so started to read up on MacRumors. Then plunged on a MBP mid 2010 i7 last holiday season. I have been very happy! No regrets the learning curve wasn't that bad at all. Still don't know my way at all around Terminal. Which I am very intrigued to learn. Coming from Windows I use the command line quite a bit.

Now when I hear about people venting against Windows. Yes it has trial software "Bloatware" on a new pc. Everybody is trying to make a sale. I get sales calls & emails at work. Once you do the work of cleaning it & patching it. Windows 7 & Vista work great. Vista got a bad rap because their OEM partners do not do their job in creating the 64 bit drivers for the OS. MS learned its lesson & did not release 7 till OEM had done their work. Vista now works great. It just couldn't shake stigma. Same like MobileMe so Apple now wrapped the product in a new name called iCloud. Yes it has some new features & some features lost. Just like Vista to 7. There are some changes. Under the hood 7 is a glorified Service Pack to Vista. Which is great. That service pack was a great release. Same thing iCloud to MobileMe or Snow Leopard to Leopard. I for one love Windows & OS X. I am nearing my 1 year anniversary of using OS X as my main machine. I use Windows at work. At home I do all my Windows IT work on my mac with native apps & virtualization if need be. I think & excuse my language bitching about Windows is better than Mac or Mac is better than Windows is BS. They are both good & we would not have what we have today if they both didn't exist. They are both awesome! If you want to run Mac only that is fine. If you want to run Windows only that is fine also. If you want to use both as I do that is awesome as well! There is no need for this is better than that & so on. Yes Mac does things out of the box that Windows doesn't & Windows does things out of the box that Mac doesn't. Again they are both good. I view the pc & os as a tool. I'll give extra points to the mac hardware being aluminum & being the only hardware that supports booting OS X & Windows natively. That is awesome Once that was accomplished the compatibility went out the door & you could have the best of both worlds & I hopped aboard as have millions of users now.

Remember with no competition there is no innovation. OS X would not be today without Windows. Windows what not be today without OS X. If it wasn't for MS. Apple would not have gone thru 360 degree turn around from Steve Jobs let go to coming back to Apple with NeXT. So I respect both equally the same. Yes I am Mac fanboy & a Windows fanboy! So there!

Great post! I too support Windows Products in an Enterprise environment. But use my MBP for my personal machine. At home I have both Macs and Win 7 machines. This way I get the best of both worlds!

----------

Windows 8 is the next Vista.

Really? How do you know?

 

[MisterMe]

...

If you buy a PC from Dell or the big manufacturers, there's more chance you're going to get crapware coming with it and you'll have to tune it a bit to get it how you want. ...

Based on the rest of your post, I gather that you don't understand a major point about the crapware that Dell and other major manufacturers install on their computers. The Windows PC business is like the newspaper and magazine business. The customer is the advertiser, not the retail buyer. The products are the users eyeballs of the user.

So which Windows OS did you install? ...

This is a rope that Windows apologists have been pushing since at least Windows 3.0. It wasn't true then. It isn't true now. My compliments to the OP for calling them out on it.

 

[jsoto]

Finally someone who understands why Vista isn't bad at all. Not even close to bad after SP2.

On topic: I don't understand why people keep complaining about Lion. There is not a whole lot changed in terms of user experience, albeit some slight adjustments are needed. They are probably the same people who complained about Vista being "worse than XP"

Great post! I too support Windows Products in an Enterprise environment. But use my MBP for my personal machine. At home I have both Macs and Win 7 machines. This way I get the best of both worlds!

----------


Really? How do you know?

Thanks! I really feel strongly about it. How many of us drive different cars? When we get together as friends, & go out to a bar or club. Who cares in what car we get in. Oh wait hey I am not going to get in that car because you drive a Volvo, Pontiac, Chevy, Toyota, Saab, BMW, etc. We don't care we get in & have a good time with the friends. Why? Because they are tools & they get the job done. That is how I feel about OS X & Windows. Great tools! They are both equally important & good!

 

[thejadedmonkey]

If I ever have to reinstall Windows (yes, it happens) I just reinstall it. Then I install my programs. Then I reboot. And that's it. Windows takes care of installing everything and rebooting at around 3am for me. I don't understand why you need to install 74 updates individually.

For anyone who says that Lion is Apple's Vista and is complaining about how bad Windows is, why not just install Windows 7 instead

 

[Mawal]

Win 7 is a very good OS, I have been using MS products since the days of Dos 3.3.

Still SL or Lion are by far easier to use. If you want to do a comparison, compare the system settings on both OS. MS drowns you in a gazillion of setting options.

Install a program, Win7 will still ask several times for confirmation.

and then it comes without an email client and without a calendar, but a new machine will come bloated with tons of unwanted software.

The Windows user experience is still a crappy one.