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I'm not! The portability just seems like a big deal. I see a lot of MBA users who emphasize how heavy the MBP is compared to it, and they also say how when they've gone Air they really can't go back - which I assume is because they're generally satisfied with its performance.

There's no doubt the MBP is heavier, it's why I've also got an Air. But being an art student on a budget (I've been there) you're probably going to need one machine that does it all. A more portable machine is all well and good but if you can't get your work done on it it's a paper weight :)
 
Ok. I guess what I was trying to get across (albeit badly) was that these days the theoretical maximum output of these machines is high enough that you might not ever approach the limits of either machine, depending on what you're using them for.

As I said I dind't meant to sound harsh or too absolute. English is not my native english and I am starting to realize that reading american tech forum is making my english bullier :)
 
As I said I dind't meant to sound harsh or too absolute. English is not my native english and I am starting to realize that reading american tech forum is making my english bullier :)

No problem. I think we're actually advising the OP the same things, an MBP, via a different route. :)
 
Look at both, either will work. I think you will prefer the Air for its utility and portability.

When it's time to upgrade I can only imagine what will be here over the next three years, but one thing I'm sure of.
With your progress in your field, and just life in general, a cheap ram upgrade just won't cut it.
It will be time to move on.
 
If you're going to be working with a lot of video I definitely think the Pro would be better. I'd say that type of usage has to trump the portability. They are heavier but if you get a comfortable backpack it should mitigate that a bit.

The RAM upgrade will cost you more if you get it as a BTO option but if you're not reasonably confident or know someone who is about fitting it yourself it might be safer to pay the premium.

I don't do any kind of video editing so I'm not going to comment on whether a RAM upgrade would be necessary for that.

Yes, the Air is more portable but I think in this case you'd be sacrificing too much for it given you want to edit video.

Makes sense. I'm thinking too much about the portability but tbh if that's the only thing that makes the Air better, then that big of a price difference is probably not worth it. Thanks so much!


If you are a graphic design student, definitely get the pro. You are already putting artificial limitations on your usage (not more than a program at once) that shouldn't be an issue in 2012. What if you find yourself needing to use more than on app at once? (photo editor + layout program; photo editor + color tools; etc-) this is common when working in design. Rarely one is able to work with one program at once (I use photoshop + bridge + dropbox + color schemer studio practically always, having to switch beetween these program, I would loose a lot in productivity). You say you could probably never upgrade your machine, but this is not correct. 2 years ago 2 gb was enough to run OSX, now 4gb are needed; in 2 years you could find yourself in need to upgrade the ram or suffer for performance and fludity issues.

Also: study a bit about the technical stuff, in our field is needed to know at least the basics :)

Ah, of course I won't only be using one app/program at a time - I only meant the "heavy" programs. :) But yes I do see how I'll need to run a lot of programs at the same time when working.

Haha, I'll get around to it someday! Never had to study them because I've been stuck with my computer for, I don't know, 10 years? And haven't felt the need to upgrade since now that it literally feels like it has cancer.

And I'm not "anti upgrades" - I just don't see myself needing THAT much power when I don't have much complaints now at 2GB RAM. It's more of a budget issue as well, tbh I'm only asking my mom - sole breadwinner in my family - for it and it makes me feel thick-faced because we have a looooot of expenses lately, but I reaaally need a new laptop, so yeah.

Thanks again for your help!
 
Look at both, either will work. I think you will prefer the Air for its utility and portability.

When it's time to upgrade I can only imagine what will be here over the next three years, but one thing I'm sure of.
With your progress in your field, and just life in general, a cheap ram upgrade just won't cut it.
It will be time to move on.


As I said, I work in webdesign. I can't see people making more complex pages than the ones I do (I work in the fashion industry, with print designers and photographers, my files are full of hig res images in smart object formats so they can be edited in any moment; I do a lot of fashion e-commerce websites too, so lots and lots of items, pics etc. in a single catalog page, not blogs or brochure website, my files are easily 1gb each or more).

Well, when I needed (when I had not a lot of money), I am always been able to make 4-5 years with a mac, thanks to upgrades. If this girl buys the pro now with 4gb and mechanical drive, in 2 year with no more than 150-200$ she wil be able to double the ram and add an ssd that, (for the use she plans to do of the machine) will practically double the life/speed of her computer.

----------

And I'm not "anti upgrades" - I just don't see myself needing THAT much power when I don't have much complaints now at 2GB RAM. It's more of a budget issue as well, tbh I'm only asking my mom - sole breadwinner in my family - for it and it makes me feel thick-faced because we have a looooot of expenses lately, but I reaaally need a new laptop, so yeah.

Thanks again for your help!

You are welcome. If you are also on a budget go with the pro and forget all the "get an air" people that probably has lot of money in their pocket and update their machine every year or so.
 
Given that you've said you'll be getting the base level of either model. I'd go for the Pro. Yes the Air's SSD is upgradeable but it's a bit of a hack. The Pro on the other hand is designed to allow upgrades (there are even instructions of Apple's website on how to do this).

If you decide in a year that you want some extra RAM you'll be able to upgrade the Pro. If you go with the Air you're stuck at 4gb with no upgrade path. You can buy extra RAM for an MBP for half of what Apple charges, if you go for the Pro DON'T pay for the build to order stuff. Apple price gauge like crazy.

I've run CS3 on an MBP with 4gb of RAM, it's ok as long as you're not throwing high DPI files with hundreds of layers at it.

The rMBp doesnt allow ram upgrades
 
If this girl buys the pro now with 4gb and mechanical drive, in 2 year with no more than 150-200$ she wil be able to double the ram and add an ssd that, (for the use she plans to do of the machine) will practically double the life/speed of her computer.

I agree. My MBP is a 2010 model. A couple of months ago (I was planning ahead for upgrading to Adobe CS6) I bought 8GB RAM and a 256 GB SSD drive. The machine runs CS6 absolutely fine (remember I'm not dealing with print graphics and their huge file sizes). The only reason I can see that I'll upgrade in future is for USB3 and Thunderbolt. I suspect this machine will run CS7 & 8 before it begins showing its age.
 
The rMBp doesnt allow ram upgrades

Good point. I don't think the OP was specific. I had assumed the standard MBP.

*Edit*

She did say the 13 inch MBP, I'm assuming she's looking at real, currently available machines, not rumoured rMBP ones. :)
 
If you are *probably* not going to upgrade the machine, get the 13" Air with 8 GB built to order ($90 more at the time of purchase).

The Air has the SSD, the Pro doesn't. It's really that simple. Nothing else really matters at this point since for your purposes, the performance is close enough to not really matter, AND either are much better than what you've been using.

The Air is more than capable of editing 720p to 1080p video (link to benchmarks below), and the Air has a higher resolution than the Pro. I don't understand all of these self professed video/photo editors telling you to get a machine with a lower resolution (well, OK, I guess they probably all have external displays..so it doesn't matter to them). The Air will allow you to have more real estate and not feel cramped while doing your work on it. Unless of course you get an external screen. Are you getting an external screen?

Here is the bottom line: The Pro has a faster CPU, yes. However, with a conventional HDD it will BE SLOWER than the Air at general OS tasks. If you are not going to bother swapping out the HDD with an SSD, then stick with the Air. Higher res, lighter, faster out of the box performance and most importantly, handles whatever you will throw at it in the next 2-3 years handily.

Don't really worry about low-voltage vs standard voltage tech speak. Those designations are used to separate ultrabook specs (Air) from standard laptop specs (Pro, etc). In general, ultrabook versions of CPU's (like i5, i7, etc) will be slower, but not by THAT much and certainly not by so much that you will be affected in any great way. In other words, yes, the people on here who maintain that the Pro is faster in CPU tasks are right, but it is not SO much faster that it is worth giving up all the benefits of the Air. Think about the whole package, speed, weight, look and feel, resolution, etc. I think that the possible reduced speed in SOME tasks in Photoshop (or whatever) is totally worth the guaranteed better screen, lighter weight and faster overall OS tasks. And I want to be clear on this, this idea that the Air can't run more than one heavy program is complete BS. In fact, with an SSD and the 8 GB of BTO RAM, you could run more programs better than the Pro in its standard config, which is 4 GB without the SSD.

The notion that if the chassis is thin that this automatically means it will get hotter is bunk. If anything, the Air will be cooler than the Pro because the voltage is lower and turboboost is attenuated in the Air compared to the Pro. Also, again, if you are not going to upgrade the machines, then it doesn't matter how cheap/expensive a future SSD upgrade will be. I can tell you this, in 2-3 years (if you do decide to upgrade the drive), getting a 256-512 GB SSD from OWC or from another standard manufacturer will cost about the same. To clarify, OWC is the company that makes the specialized non-standard Air SSD modules. The standard modules are made by companies like Intel, Samsung, etc. And in either case, BOTH (Pro and Air upgrades) are considered hacks by Apple because they don't support non-Apple branded SSD's anyway.

The people you've talked to that say they can't go back are probably people like you who will enjoy the advantages of the Air. The reason they say this is because the performance is great enough for them. At some point, the returns are diminishing because you don't notice them anymore. Certainly the Pro will allow you to render something faster, but only by 10-15% in most cases, so in actuality we're talking seconds to minutes.

Take a look here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6063/macbook-air-13inch-mid-2012-review/5

This compares iMovie, Adobe Lightroom, Adobe Photoshop and Final Cut Pro X among the various Macbook Pro's and Air's from 2012 to 2011 to 2010. You will see that the current 13" Air (the one you are thinking of getting) beats most of those machines easily. The only machines that consistently beat the 13" Air are the 15" MacBook Pro and the 15" Macbook Pro with Retina Display. All other Macbook's have lower benchmarks. They don't explicitly show the 13" Pro numbers, but it's between the 15" Pro and 13" Air (and this gap is not that large), which means the gap from the Air to the 13" Pro is also not very large, which is why the tradeoff is totally worth it. Here is a quote from the review (btw, this site is highly reputable, as many ITT will attest):

"The Air 13” is fast enough for day-to-day use, and the higher screen resolution and significant edge in terms of portability make it pretty compelling versus the Pro’s comparatively portly body and disappointingly low-res 1280x800 display. Which isn’t to say that the MBP 13 doesn’t have its advantages - it’s significantly more upgradable (the Air has soldered in, non-upgradable memory, as well as a non-standard form factor SSD, while the Pro has a bog-standard SATA port), as well as an LCD with a wider colour gamut. Plus, if you rely on physical media, it’s the only one with a DVD drive.

To me, and I suspect to many consumers, the form factor and screen resolution are enough to sway me towards the Air. As someone who owned and loved a 13" MacBook Pro for a long time (a base 2011 model with a Vertex 3 MAX IOPS), I just don't see the allure in the current one. The custom SSD form factor seems like an overblown issue, because Apple is now shipping SSDs with controllers good enough that I don't think they need to be replaced, and a number of SSD manufacturers make upgrade kits for the Air anyways. With that said, I absolutely don't like what Apple is doing about non-upgradable memory, because it means that if you're not willing to pay Apple sometimes absurd memory upgrade pricing, you're stuck with a system that'll be RAM starved after a couple of years. If you switch laptops frequently, that's not as big an issue, but otherwise, it's definitely something to consider. But to me, the Air just feels more modern than the Pro, and if you're buying a system in the next month or two, I think the base 13" Air is the better one to get."​

That really says it all.

Edit: I guess I should add that I bought a 13" Air for my sister for college for this exact purpose and she loves it. Anecdotal sure, but still.
 
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Look at both, either will work. I think you will prefer the Air for its utility and portability.

When it's time to upgrade I can only imagine what will be here over the next three years, but one thing I'm sure of.
With your progress in your field, and just life in general, a cheap ram upgrade just won't cut it.
It will be time to move on.

I see where you're coming from. I can also imagine myself drooling over the latest releases from Apple years from now. But I've been stuck with my PC for 10 years and if I'm going to be practical, after buying a new one now I probably won't buy another for a really, really long time.

As I said, I work in webdesign. I can't see people making more complex pages than the ones I do (I work in the fashion industry, with print designers and photographers, my files are full of hig res images in smart object formats so they can be edited in any moment; I do a lot of fashion e-commerce websites too, so lots and lots of items, pics etc. in a single catalog page, not blogs or brochure website, my files are easily 1gb each or more).

Well, when I needed (when I had not a lot of money), I am always been able to make 4-5 years with a mac, thanks to upgrades. If this girl buys the pro now with 4gb and mechanical drive, in 2 year with no more than 150-200$ she wil be able to double the ram and add an ssd that, (for the use she plans to do of the machine) will practically double the life/speed of her computer.

----------



You are welcome. If you are also on a budget go with the pro and forget all the "get an air" people that probably has lot of money in their pocket and update their machine every year or so.

I agree. My MBP is a 2010 model. A couple of months ago (I was planning ahead for upgrading to Adobe CS6) I bought 8GB RAM and a 256 GB SSD drive. The machine runs CS6 absolutely fine (remember I'm not dealing with print graphics and their huge file sizes). The only reason I can see that I'll upgrade in future is for USB3 and Thunderbolt. I suspect this machine will run CS7 & 8 before it begins showing its age.

Noted. Thank you so much! Very helpful. I'm glad I went on here to ask - I probably would've decided on the Air had I kept reading reviews from youtube/blogs. A MacBook Pro it is! :) (I'm only getting the 4GB for now, but when I do end up wanting an upgrade - do I just bring it to an Apple Care Center?)

PS. No, I'm not even looking at the new Retina display Macbook Pros. Those are ridiculously expensive.
 
That really says it all.


Yep, it definetely says it all. In fact, he talks about "daily use" and "average consumers" not graphic/video editing and professional use (when you study graphic design you are simulating professional work). It also says the macbook pro has a wider color gamut (more color fidelity), another thing that suggest the air is more "consumer-oriented" than the "pro" (go figure!).

Ask anand what he would suggest beetween air and pro for a graphic student on a budget if he says "macbook air" I will send you $1.000 via paypal. I swear :)

EDIT: now that I am reading the rest of your post, it's full of inaccuracies. The low-voltage cpu matters when you are doing graphic editing (that mostyl use cpu for calculations). Also matter the probably different amount of L3 Cache and many other technical details you don't know about. What you say it's true for the "average consumer" that use its mac to browser macrumors to know when he will can buy the next one. Not for a graphic student that needs to work on its machine and keep it for years to come.

Also, i'ts obvious (ask to anand) that the thin form factor influence performance. Justifying what you said with the fact that the low voltage, handicapped turbo speed would help with thermal dissipation… well you are actually just making my point and contradicting yourself…

Anand also says "If you switch laptops frequently, that's not as big an issue, but otherwise, it's definitely something to consider". Well the OP has said it plans to keep it's machine for lot of years.

Stop giving inaccurate, uninformed advices. You are obviously unable to understand the OP needings. You can keep doing the unpaid apple's evangelist with your friends.
 
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If you are *probably* not going to upgrade the machine, get the 13" Air with 8 GB built to order ($90 more at the time of purchase).

The Air has the SSD, the Pro doesn't. It's really that simple. Nothing else really matters at this point since for your purposes, the performance is close enough to not really matter, AND either are much better than what you've been using.

The Air is more than capable of editing 720p to 1080p video (link to benchmarks below), and the Air has a higher resolution than the Pro. I don't understand all of these self professed video/photo editors telling you to get a machine with a lower resolution. The Air will allow you to have more real estate and not feel cramped while doing your work on it. Unless of course you get an external screen. Are you getting an external screen?

Here is the bottom line: The Pro has a faster CPU, yes. However, with a conventional HDD it will BE SLOWER than the Air at general OS tasks. If you are not going to bother swapping out the HDD with an SSD, then stick with the Air. Higher res, lighter, faster out of the box performance and most importantly, handles whatever you will throw at it in the next 2-3 years handily.

Don't really worry about low-voltage vs standard voltage tech speak. Those designations are used to separate ultrabook specs (Air) from standard laptop specs (Pro, etc). In general, ultrabook versions of CPU's (like i5, i7, etc) will be slower, but not by THAT much and certainly not by so much that you will be affected in any great way. In other words, yes, the people on here who maintain that the Pro is faster in CPU tasks are right, but it is not SO much faster that it is worth giving up all the benefits of the Air. Think about the whole package, speed, weight, look and feel, resolution, etc. I think that the possible reduced speed in SOME tasks in Photoshop (or whatever) is totally worth the guaranteed better screen, lighter weight and faster overall OS tasks. And I want to be clear on this, this idea that the Air can't run more than one heavy program is complete BS. In fact, with an SSD and the 8 GB of BTO RAM, you could run more programs better than the Pro in its standard config, which is 4 GB without the SSD.

The notion that if the chassis is thin that this automatically means it will get hotter is bunk. If anything, the Air will be cooler than the Pro because the voltage is lower and turboboost is attenuated in the Air compared to the Pro. Also, again, if you are not going to upgrade the machines, then it doesn't matter how cheap/expensive a future SSD upgrade will be. I can tell you this, in 2-3 years (if you do decide to upgrade the drive), getting a 256-512 GB SSD from OWC or from another standard manufacturer will cost about the same. To clarify, OWC is the company that makes the specialized non-standard Air SSD modules. The standard modules are made by companies like Intel, Samsung, etc. And in either case, BOTH (Pro and Air upgrades) are considered hacks by Apple because they don't support non-Apple branded SSD's anyway.

The people you've talked to that say they can't go back are probably people like you who will enjoy the advantages of the Air. The reason they say this is because the performance is great enough for them. At some point, the returns are diminishing because you don't notice them anymore. Certainly the Pro will allow you to render something faster, but only by 10-15% in most cases, so in actuality we're talking seconds.

Take a look here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6063/macbook-air-13inch-mid-2012-review/5

This compares iMovie, Adobe Lightroom, Adobe Photoshop and Final Cut Pro X among the various Macbook Pro's and Air's from 2012 to 2011 to 2010. You will see that the current 13" Air (the one you are thinking of getting) beats most of those machines easily. The only machines that consistently beat the 13" Air are the 15" MacBook Pro and the 15" Macbook Pro with Retina Display. All other Macbook's have lower benchmarks. They don't explicitly show the 13" Pro numbers, but it's between the 15" Pro and 13" Air (and this gap is not that large), which means the gap from the Air to the 13" Pro is also not very large, which is why the tradeoff is totally worth it. Here is a quote from the review (btw, this site is highly reputable, as many ITT will attest):

"The Air 13” is fast enough for day-to-day use, and the higher screen resolution and significant edge in terms of portability make it pretty compelling versus the Pro’s comparatively portly body and disappointingly low-res 1280x800 display. Which isn’t to say that the MBP 13 doesn’t have its advantages - it’s significantly more upgradable (the Air has soldered in, non-upgradable memory, as well as a non-standard form factor SSD, while the Pro has a bog-standard SATA port), as well as an LCD with a wider colour gamut. Plus, if you rely on physical media, it’s the only one with a DVD drive.

To me, and I suspect to many consumers, the form factor and screen resolution are enough to sway me towards the Air. As someone who owned and loved a 13" MacBook Pro for a long time (a base 2011 model with a Vertex 3 MAX IOPS), I just don't see the allure in the current one. The custom SSD form factor seems like an overblown issue, because Apple is now shipping SSDs with controllers good enough that I don't think they need to be replaced, and a number of SSD manufacturers make upgrade kits for the Air anyways. With that said, I absolutely don't like what Apple is doing about non-upgradable memory, because it means that if you're not willing to pay Apple sometimes absurd memory upgrade pricing, you're stuck with a system that'll be RAM starved after a couple of years. If you switch laptops frequently, that's not as big an issue, but otherwise, it's definitely something to consider. But to me, the Air just feels more modern than the Pro, and if you're buying a system in the next month or two, I think the base 13" Air is the better one to get."​

That really says it all.

No, I'm not getting an external screen.

Wow, now I'm confused again haha. Thanks for the super detailed review! I'll see what the pro-MBP users have to say about this. :)
 
Yep, it definetely says it all. In fact, he talks about "daily use" and "average consumers" not graphic/video editing and professional use (when you study graphic design you are simulating professional work). It also says the macbook pro has a wider color gamut (more color fidelity), another thing that suggest the air is more "consumer-oriented" than the "pro" (go figure!).

Ask anand what he would suggest beetween air and pro for a graphic student on a budget if he says "macbook air" I will send you $1.000 via paypal. I swear :)

Hah, challenge accepted!

Seriously though, I see your point about the student simulating pro work, but it's still no where near the same thing. In 4 years when she's done her program, she'll be getting a Pro and I'd support that.

And let's be honest, we're all consumers in some way. Just because we do work (photo, video, whatever) on it, doesn't mean a laptop with the moniker "consumer" is wrong for us. Nor does it mean "Pro's" are always the right choice.
 
EDIT: now that I am reading the rest of your post, it's full of inaccuracies. The low-voltage cpu matters when you are doing graphic editing (that mostyl use cpu for calculations). Also matter the probably different amount of L3 Cache and many other technical details you don't know about. What you say it's true for the "average consumer" that use its mac to browser macrumors to know when he will can buy the next one. Not for a graphic student that needs to work on its machine and keep it for years to come.

Also, i'ts obvious (ask to anand) that the thin form factor influence performance. Justifying what you said with the fact that the low voltage, handicapped turbo speed would help with thermal dissipation… well you are actually just making my point and contradicting yourself…

Stop giving inaccurate, uninformed advices. You are obviously unable to understand the OP needings.


What are you referring to? Did you read the review and look at the benchmarks? They're VERY CLOSE in those photo/video editing tasks he (Anand) is doing.

What specific tasks are you referring to that are not covered in the review benchmarks? What are all these "many other technical details" you assume I don't know about?

I already acknowledged that the lower performance was due to the attenuated boost and lower clock speed. You said it got hot and the fan went wild, that is not true. My argument isn't about the thinness, it's about the fact that you said the machine gets too hot which decreases performance. That is wrong. The machine purposely clocks down to reduce heat, but this has the side effect of reducing performance, and the side benefit of increasing battery life.

FYI: You're talking trash again with your L3 cache bit. The amount is the same on both, 3 MB. The only difference once again, is the ULV variant in the Air which has a lower clock speed.
 
What are you referring to? Did you read the review and look at the benchmarks? They're VERY CLOSE in those photo/video editing tasks he's doing.

What specific tasks are you referring to that are not covered in the review benchmarks? What are all these "many other technical details" you assume I don't know about?

What I am saying is that the OP has some specific needs: she will do graphic editing, she can't upgrade right now at 8gb (but could in the future and will not be able with air), she had a pc for 10 years (not 3) and plans to keep this for a long time (a long time for her maybe not the same long time for you). As I said in another post, in 2-3 years she could upgrade the macbook to more ram and an ssd extending a lot the life of its machien (one of their needs).

Consider also that the benchmarks that deem the air "on pair" with the pro talk about air with ssd vs. macboook with mechanical; otherwise they would show a very different picture. The pro can eventually be updated to an ssd.

Another thing anandtech review don't say and I think is important in real world use: benchmarks are run for a limited amount of time, and shows certain performances; let them run for 7-8 hours a day and you will see why a thin form factor impact to performances. What you don't see in an hour or two long benchmarks you can see in real world full day usage. Also, with years and usage situation get worst.

----------

My argument isn't about the thinness, it's about the fact that you said the machine gets too hot which decreases performance. That is wrong. The machine purposely clocks down to reduce heat, but this has the side effect of reducing performance, and the side benefit of increasing battery life.

This is exactly the same thing that I said: the machine gets too hot, so he had do reduce clock and performances decreases. So the pro performs better. I also don't get your point about battery life, yes with low clock you have more battery but the macbook air is rated 5 hours, the pro 7, you will never get more battery from an air, but 20-25% less by default.

EDIT: I am not doing an air vs. pro comparison. It's just about what is better for the OP needs in the long run.
 
Seriously though, I see your point about the student simulating pro work, but it's still no where near the same thing. In 4 years when she's done her program, she'll be getting a Pro and I'd support that.

I'm not sure that's necessarily true. Thinking back to my college days I pushed my computer far more than now because of the range of work (web design and DTP up to full 3D stuff). Once you're out and specialising in one (or at least fewer) disciplines you might find an Air does the job, but the Pro will be a better all-rounder; web design, print graphics, video, 3D.

Also if there's video editing going on the SSD will start feeling very small. Personally I'd take the hit in read/write speed and gain being able to store all my work on the laptop disk over the faster read/writes of the SSD and needed an external drive to keep some of my work.
 
Consider also that the benchmarks that deem the air "on pair" with the pro talk about air with ssd vs. macboook with mechanical; otherwise they would show a very different picture. The pro can eventually be updated to an ssd.

Another thing anandtech review don't say and I think is important in real world use: benchmarks are run for a limited amount of time, and shows certain performances; let them run for 7-8 hours a day and you will see why a thin form factor impact to performances. What you don't see in an hour or two long benchmarks you can see in real world full day usage. Also, with years and usage situation get worst.

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This is exactly the same thing that I said: the machine gets too hot, so he had do reduce clock and performances decreases. So the pro performs better. I also don't get your point about battery life, yes with low clock you have more battery but the macbook air is rated 5 hours, the pro 7, you will never get more battery from an air, but 20-25% less by default.

EDIT: I am not doing an air vs. pro comparison. It's just about what is better for the OP needs in the long run.


I don't think the SSD has the effect you're thinking for the review. These were all CPU intensive tasks and the machine had already loaded needed assets into memory before the process started.

As I said before, they don't note anything about the thermals in the review. They don't even mention that it got overly warm. If they didn't think it warranted a mention, I doubt there was a significant difference between the two.

Also, the Pro would actually get hotter doing the same tasks because it will get them done faster because it's using more power and thus dissipating more heat. The Air will be slower because it's not using as much power (sips juice) so it's not making much heat.

Lastly, do we even know what she's likely to upgrade? Or if she will at all? You assume she'll upgrade the RAM and HDD (to an SSD), some people even mention upgrading the optical drive to another HDD/SSD. Is this a realistic scenario for the OP? Isn't it more likely to be something she uses for school, sells in 4 years, then buys another? This isn't a desktop and it's a Mac. It's likely to fetch a still decent price on the used market - but anyway, that's off-topic.

----------

I'm not sure that's necessarily true. Thinking back to my college days I pushed my computer far more than now because of the range of work (web design and DTP up to full 3D stuff). Once you're out and specialising in one (or at least fewer) disciplines you might find an Air does the job, but the Pro will be a better all-rounder; web design, print graphics, video, 3D.

Also if there's video editing going on the SSD will start feeling very small. Personally I'd take the hit in read/write speed and gain being able to store all my work on the laptop disk over the faster read/writes of the SSD and needed an external drive to keep some of my work.

Yeah these are good points. In theory you could be doing a greater range of work in school. That in itself doesn't demand a Pro over an Air though - remember the benchmarks show very close performance. We're talking at most probably minutes here, especially since nothing can be done on the non-existent discrete GPU which is one huge difference from your machine.

I personally didn't mind carrying a small 2.5" external with my internal SSD, but the speed tradeoff was worth it. Though I did eventually swap out the DVD for an optibay to hold a conventional drive.


Let's all remember that the Air will run everything well. There's always going to be something faster (the Pro in this case), but the point is that usability at this point is rarely affected like it was in the early days.
 
Lastly, do we even know what she's likely to upgrade? Or if she will at all? You assume she'll upgrade the RAM and HDD (to an SSD),

I think the key thing is with the MBP there's the option to upgrade. The OP said she kept her last computer for 10 years. The possibility of upgrading RAM / HD to SSD will help if keeping the laptop for four years is a consideration.

I love my Air but I'm in no doubt that it's on a shorter upgrade cycle given what I use it for. I've mitigated this in part buy splashing out on the i7/8GB RAM/256 SSD. The OP has stated she doesn't wish to spend money now on upgrades.

I wouldn't suggest that 4gb of RAM will be fine for ever more. If she goes with the Air that's what she'll be locked into. The Pro allows for some staged upgrading of RAM if she finds she needs it.
 
I think the key thing is with the MBP there's the option to upgrade. The OP said she kept her last computer for 10 years. The possibility of upgrading RAM / HD to SSD will help if keeping the laptop for four years is a consideration.

I love my Air but I'm in no doubt that it's on a shorter upgrade cycle given what I use it for. I've mitigated this in part buy splashing out on the i7/8GB RAM/256 SSD. The OP has stated she doesn't wish to spend money now on upgrades.

I wouldn't suggest that 4gb of RAM will be fine for ever more. If she goes with the Air that's what she'll be locked into. The Pro allows for some staged upgrading of RAM if she finds she needs it.

Yeah I would agree with that. As I said, I wouldn't go Air for 4 GB only. I would only say the Air on two conditions (which I assumed she was doing):

-No upgrades
-8GB BTO now.

OP, if you think you cannot buy the 8GB now, or that you may want to upgrade, then my advice gets a bit more hazy. I still don't like recommending the Pro because of the crappy screen. You mentioned you will not have an external screen so this is a huge consideration for productivity.
 
Yeah I would agree with that. As I said, I wouldn't go Air for 4 GB only. I would only say the Air on two conditions (which I assumed she was doing):

-No upgrades
-8GB BTO now.

OP, if you think you cannot buy the 8GB now, or that you may want to upgrade, then my advice gets a bit more hazy. I still don't like recommending the Pro because of the crappy screen. You mentioned you will not have an external screen so this is a huge consideration for productivity.

If I do decide on the Air, I guess I'd have to buy the 8GB. I really don't know if I would want an upgrade in the future, seeing as for 10 years I have been stuck with my desktop computer (which again only has 2GB of RAM) with no complaints until now that it's dying.

It seems you guys really wouldn't suggest getting the 4GB for either (I'm not sure I've gotten an answer as to why? @m00min, back when you were a student and only had 4GB, did you find it wasn't sufficient?). If we're only comparing the 8GB versions of the two now, with no upgrades in the future, which one would win?
 
If I do decide on the Air, I guess I'd have to buy the 8GB. I really don't know if I would want an upgrade in the future, seeing as for 10 years I have been stuck with my desktop computer (which again only has 2GB of RAM) with no complaints until now that it's dying.

It seems you guys really wouldn't suggest getting the 4GB for either (I'm not sure I've gotten an answer as to why? @m00min, back when you were a student and only had 4GB, did you find it wasn't sufficient?). If we're only comparing the 8GB versions of the two now, with no upgrades in the future, which one would win?

I can't see a compelling reason to pick the Pro over the Air if you're saying absolutely no upgrades.

To answer your question, the 8 GB upgrade is recommended by us because it's inexpensive (compared to upgrades in general) and it will help speed up your machine when running many applications and leaving your machine running for weeks at a time. Basically, it's the upgrade with the most bang for your buck (besides SSD which you already have with the Air), and since you can only get 8 GB at purchase time, that's why we say get it. The other reason is weaker but I'll mention it anyway and that is because system requirements change over time and what may be OK for tasks now (4 GB is good), may be inadequate for the future (3-5 years later), and 8GB seems to be a prudent purchase for that reason (this is the future-proofing reason).

In other words, you would still be fine with 4 GB today and maybe 2 years from now - but the price is SOOOO low at $90, and the benefits fairly decent - that it's a great use of money.
 
I have a question/doubt (and maybe it's useful for "mfa39")

There's a model of the 13" MBP that has 2.9 GHz dual-core Intel Core i7, 750GB 5400-rpm hard drive1, 8GB 1600MHz memory.
It's the 13" MBP that is, on Apple's website, $1499

That one has higher processor than any other one?
And it also has 8GB which some of you were talking before.


Could this be the best option?
Is it upgradable? What about the SSD?

Thanks
 
In other words, you would still be fine with 4 GB today and maybe 2 years from now - but the price is SOOOO low at $90, and the benefits fairly decent - that it's a great use of money.

Again, I have 16gb and I am okay with that. I could do (graphic /web design) with 8. Not with 4. It's not true 4 are enogh, not even today. She's going to study graphic design, she will work with high dpi heavy files, she should at least have 4 for the system and 4 for indesign (or photoshop). Teh anandtech review you refer to, it's addressed for consumers (browse, mail etc.) not pros. Do you realize that some FILEs can keep gbs of memory that to stay in memory? Memory that adds to the system + photoshop memory footprints?

Also I think the fact she says she won't feel the need to upgrade it's (sorry OP :) meaningless. In a year or two when she will do actual heavy design assignments she will change her mind. Now she can't know; we work in the field, we already know, we can say to her she's wrong now.

You also keep sayng she can change machine in 4 years; knowing (well) what she's going to do with it, the Air won't last 4 years, maybe 2-3 at most. The macbook pro can go on also 5 or 6 with small upgrades.

----------

Believe me when I says 4 gb are not enough, 8 would be better. With the pro you can buy at 4gb save and upgrade to 8.

The same holds true for the ssd. Consider Air has custom ssd, you can find them from third party, but in some years they will cost more (new airs, new custom ssd will be avalaible that could not work with yours; the old ones will be rare and cost more, as it is now for 3-4 years old custom apple parts.)

With the pro you will get (now) the same performance than with the air, and better performances for many years to come. With the air the performance you get they wil stay the same until you buy a new machine.

The fact that you have the same pc since 10 years, and never upgraded, actually it doesn't matter. If you are starting now the college, you will discover what you will have to do will be more intensive than what you have done until now, this will change how you think about performance and upgrades.

----------

Let's all remember that the Air will run everything well. There's always going to be something faster (the Pro in this case), but the point is that usability at this point is rarely affected like it was in the early days.


Sorry but, are you a professional graphic designer? Do you posses an Air? Your signature says you have a macbook pro. Are you basing your reasoning on a review? Both me and the other graphic designer that suggest the pro, well, we work in the field, I had (and he still has now) macbook airs. And we are keep saying is better for her to get a pro. Doesn't this mean anything to you? Usability is not affected for daily usage and average consumers, it's what the review you refer to says too. What the review don't say (and it's okay because it's not what a review talks about) it's how well the machine will fair in 2-4 years. Also, the reviewer specify the Air be a better buy for those than buy new machine OFTEN.
 
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It seems you guys really wouldn't suggest getting the 4GB for either (I'm not sure I've gotten an answer as to why? @m00min, back when you were a student and only had 4GB, did you find it wasn't sufficient?)

Ah, I've not been clear there, I bought a MBP in 2010, it had 4gb of RAM. It was ok for my usage and my CS3 software. Just recently I upgraded the RAM to 8gb for CS6. I always intended to upgrade the RAM and with the Pro I had that option, I'm not sure CS6 would have coped well enough on 4gb. If you go with an Air I would suggest the BTO 8gb upgrade because in a couple of years you won't be able to do as I did and pop in a few extra GBs.

Also, I was a student long enough ago that 4gb of RAM was unheard of. I think my college machine had a whole 146mb :)
 
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