For an art student: 13" Macbook Pro or Air?

[nexusrule]

If I do decide on the Air, I guess I'd have to buy the 8GB.

If you buy an air:

You will spend more for less.
You will be stuck with the same perfomances until you buy a new machine.
A screen that is "better" (as someone keeps saying) but for –consumers– not for you, macbook pro has wieder color gamuts so better fidelity beetwen what you see and what you print.
If in a year or two you will discover the Air to not be fast enough for your assignments, your only option will be to buy another machine.
Eventually you will regret your buying when in a couple of years your rendering will take more time than your friend's one, your machine will be slow and you will take more time to make your assignments.

People that keep saying the Air is the same are thinking more about the computer they like than your needing and your wallet, believe me. Maybe they even don't posses one or they do with it nothing related with what you will do with it.

 

[m00min]

People that keep saying the Air are the same are thinking more about the computer they like than your needing and your wallet, believe me.

This exactly. My personal taste isn't coming into my recommendation, I honestly think that over the course of four years the Pro would be the better choice.

 

[nexusrule]

This exactly. My personal taste isn't coming into my recommendation, I honestly think that over the course of four years the Pro would be the better choice.

And let's add that 4 years is a made up number from one of those that suggets the Air, reading the OP post it seems she plans to keep it far more time than 4 year.

 

[nexusrule]

I can't see a compelling reason to pick the Pro over the Air if you're saying absolutely no upgrades.

Better CPU performances.
Upgradability (better performances in the long run and longer life).
Better screen for graphic designer (wider gamut) vs. better screen for consumers (saturation etc.)
Better battery life (7 hours vs. 5).
Probably better resell value.
Consumer vs. Professional machine.

 

[Bauer24]

Again, I have 16gb and I am okay with that. I could do (graphic /web design) with 8. Not with 4. It's not true 4 are enogh, not even today. She's going to study graphic design, she will work with high dpi heavy files, she should at least have 4 for the system and 4 for indesign (or photoshop). Teh anandtech review you refer to, it's addressed for consumers (browse, mail etc.) not pros.

You also keep sayng she can change machine in 4 years; knowing (well) what she's going to do with it, the Air won't last 4 years, maybe 2-3 at most. The macbook pro can go on also 5 or 6 with small upgrades.

4 GB is fine for today's use, but I would strongly recommend the 8 GB upgrade because you cannot change that later. The Air will most definitely last at least as long as the Pro considering she's not upgrading. If she was upgrading, that adds time to the Pro but the Air will still probably last 3-4 years.


----------

Sorry but, are you a professional graphic designer? Do you posses an Air? Your signature says you have a macbook pro. Are you basing your reasoning on a review? Both me and the other graphic designer that suggest the pro, well, we work in the field, I had (and he still has now) macbook airs. And we are keep saying is better for her to get a pro. Doesn't this mean anything to you? Usability is not affected for daily usage and average consumers, it's what the review you refer to says too. What the review don't say (and it's okay because it's not what a review talks about) it's how well the machine will fair in 2-4 years. Also, the reviewer specify the Air be a better buy for those than buy new machine OFTEN.

No not really. In my experience, users on tech forums are NOT representative in opinion or in needs of most of the computer using population. You prove it by saying that 4 GB isn't enough for today's design work. It works fine, you can just do more with 8GB.


Let's also keep in mind the whole package. We shouldn't just keep focusing on the specs to advise her. You seem to be dismissing the advantages of weight and screen res, when these things add to the whole experience of owning an Air.

 

[nexusrule]

No not really. In my experience, users on tech forums are NOT representative in opinion or in needs of most of the computer using population. You prove it by saying that 4 GB isn't enough for today's design work. It works fine, you can just do more with 8GB.

Have you read her post ? She is going to do graphic design with her machines, not browsing / listening to music. So I don't see why you make this point.

Also I don't think you do graphic design or you would know that a mac with just safari, skype, color schemer studio and photoshop with 2 files open already has (looking at activity monitor) more than 3.8gb of memory occupied. Without actually working on these files. 4 are clearly not enough to work fluidly if you plan to make the sort of use she does. Your assertion that "It works fine, you can just do more with 8GB." has no meaning at all.

Don't spread inaccurate information that can cost money to people just because you like a machine more than another.

----------

Let's also keep in mind the whole package. We shouldn't just keep focusing on the specs to advise her. You seem to be dismissing the advantages of weight and screen res, when these things add to the whole experience of owning an Air.

When you work with a machine specs matter more than when you play (not games) with it. Also , the screen in the air, as already pointed out multiple times, is worst than the macbook pro for graphic designers because has less color fidelity. (There is no need to check on the "Which Mac laptop has the best color gamut / representation?" thread to know it[, the anandtech review you keep refering says it, have you actually read it? you should inform yourself BEFORE giving advice not after).

 

[m00min]

I guess the OP needs to get some unbiased advice from people working with video editing. She's had plenty of input from a couple of web designers.

It can be a nightmare trying to figure out whether what you want to buy will do the job. Knowing which opinions are based on usage specific to what you're gonna be working on. I spent months researching whether my Air would run CS6 apps well, the main reason I bought it was because I'm currently working on a job that requires I be present at a client's office, and having switched to freelance I need to be a lot more mobile. If not for that I'd still be running just my Pro.

The Pro (mine's the 15 incher) is heavier but getting the right bag makes a lot of difference.

 

[Bauer24]

If you buy an air:

You will spend more for less.
You will be stuck with the same perfomances until you buy a new machine.
A screen that is "better" (as someone keeps saying) but for –consumers– not for you, macbook pro has wieder color gamuts so better fidelity beetwen what you see and what you print.
If in a year or two you will discover the Air to not be fast enough for your assignments, your only option will be to buy another machine.
Eventually you will regret your buying when in a couple of years your rendering will take more time than your friend's one, your machine will be slow and you will take more time to make your assignments.

People that keep saying the Air is the same are thinking more about the computer they like than your needing and your wallet, believe me. Maybe they even don't posses one or they do with it nothing related with what you will do with it.

She will be "stuck" as you say, with the same speed she buys for BOTH machines if she's not upgrading.

You are being completely disingenuous about the capabilities of the Air compared to the Pro. Regret buying the Air in 2 years? lol. You can't be serious. How do you even know her friend is getting a better machine? She already states that she's spoken to friends who love their Air's. I highly doubt the OP will be making purchasing decisions based on it taking a few minutes longer to complete an assignment in the future (if at all).

I have a 13" Pro, but I chose it because I knew I wanted to upgrade the drives and memory. I didn't chose it because the CPU was better, or whatever else you say is better with the Pro.

Better CPU performances.
Upgradability (better performances in the long run and longer life).
Better screen for graphic designer (wider gamut) vs. better screen for consumers (saturation etc.)
Better battery life (7 hours vs. 5).
Probably better resell value.
Consumer vs. Professional machine.

Yeah, CPU would be faster - this is a good tradeoff for the Air's portability and SSD because in general OS tasks the Air WILL be faster. As I've stated.

She doesn't care about upgradeability.

Color gamut is lower that's true, but may not be noticeable for the OP. I think it's really up to her to decide if her particular assignments will require extreme accuracy in colours. Keep in mind, there will not be a significant difference in either of these areas going to the Pro unless you're also going to the 15" high res matte display OR the retina IPS panel.

You are wrong on battery life. It's 7 for both.

Resale? Seriously you're making that argument? We can't know what the used market will be like for these machines relative to each other.

 

[mfa39]

I guess the OP needs to get some unbiased advice from people working with video editing. She's had plenty of input from a couple of web designers.

It can be a nightmare trying to figure out whether what you want to buy will do the job. Knowing which opinions are based on usage specific to what you're gonna be working on. I spent months researching whether my Air would run CS6 apps well, the main reason I bought it was because I'm currently working on a job that requires I be present at a client's office, and having switched to freelance I need to be a lot more mobile. If not for that I'd still be running just my Pro.

The Pro (mine's the 15 incher) is heavier but getting the right bag makes a lot of difference.

Maybe should've mentioned this earlier, but one and a half years to go and I'm done with school. After I graduate, I actually plan on trying out to be a stewardess and working as a freelance designer and photographer part time. I just realized that would make this a little more inclined to the Air? Or does it not?

 

[nexusrule]

She will be "stuck" as you say, with the same speed she buys for BOTH machines if she's not upgrading.

Well, she can think now that she won't need upgrade and change her mind with more experience in the future. Would the Air be upgradeable at this point?

I have a 13" Pro, but I chose it because I knew I wanted to upgrade the drives and memory. I didn't chose it because the CPU was better, or whatever else you say is better with the Pro.

So you don't own the machine you keep suggesting buying?? And because you didn't chose your for the CPU think the same should hold true for other people?

Yeah, CPU would be faster - this is a good tradeoff for the Air's portability and SSD because in general OS tasks the Air WILL be faster. As I've stated.

Color gamut is lower that's true, but may not be noticeable for the OP. I think it's really up to her to decide if her particular assignments will require extreme accuracy in colours..

Sure it's up to here to decided but with the RIGHT informations on hands. You kept saying the Air has a better display and you had to check on threads to discover you were wrong (i usually inform before advicing not after)

Resale? Seriously you're making that argument? We can't know what the used market will be like for these machines relative to each other.

The market is the same since years. A limited not upgradeable machine will sell lower than one that can be extended. It's elementary logic.

That said: you don't do graphic design, you don't own an Air, why you feel like you are entitled to give advice about an Air used for graphic design based on a tech site review? Do you realize is a childish behavior?

And why you keep avoiding answering my technical points? (like the one about memory usage) This is not an Apple vs. Samsung, android vs. ios thread. It's about a real person who needs real advice.

 

[Bauer24]

Have you read her post ? She is going to do graphic design with her machines, not browsing / listening to music. So I don't see why you make this point.

Also I don't think you do graphic design or you would know that a mac with just safari, skype, color schemer studio and photoshop with 2 files open already has (looking at activity monitor) more than 3.8gb of memory occupied. Without actually working on these files. 4 are clearly not enough to work fluidly if you plan to make the sort of use she does. Your assertion that "It works fine, you can just do more with 8GB." has no meaning at all.

Don't spread inaccurate information that can cost money to people just because you like a machine more than another.

You should take your own advice. I'm not the one pulling fake L3 cache specs out of my head, or fake battery comparison tests out of thin air, or saying the Air won't be capable (when the benchmarks I showed says it works fine), or scaring her into buying a Pro because her friends will have better machines (lol), or making up excuses to get a Pro based on things the OP will not need. She says she won't upgrade, I'm advising based on that - it's not my job (nor yours) to TELL her she must upgrade, seriously, that's why regular people don't ask for advice on tech forums. It's because people like you don't read what she's saying. You impose your own tech specs and habits onto the person which is completely wrong to do.

Let me say it again so you can understand - she does not want to upgrade. We have already pushed her into upgrading to 8 GB which she seems willing to do. If she won't upgrade, then the Air is a better choice since it has the SSD and the higher res screen. Sure the gamut isn't as wide as the Pro, but that's the 15" Pro/Retina Pro. We don't even know for sure that she would get a significantly wider gamut with the 13" Pro since the sources for these panels vary within the Apple supply chain.

Lastly, with an SSD, the point still stands with 4 GB. Sure it could be 3.8 GB used with a few apps open, but swapping to disk is much faster and I've already recommended 8 GB to be safe.

 

[Bauer24]

Well, she can think now that she won't need upgrade and change her mind with more experience in the future. Would the Air be upgradeable at this point?



So you don't own the machine you keep suggesting buying?? And because you didn't chose your for the CPU think the same should hold true for other people?






Sure it's up to here to decided but with the RIGHT informations on hands. You kept saying the Air has a better display and you had to check on threads to discover you were wrong (i usually inform before advicing not after)



The market is the same since years. A limited not upgradeable machine will sell lower than one that can be extended. It's elementary logic.

That said: you don't do graphic design, you don't own an Air, why you feel like you are entitled to give advice about an Air used for graphic design based on a tech site review? Do you realize is a childish behavior?

And why you keep avoiding answering my technical points? (like the one about memory usage) This is not an Apple vs. Samsung, android vs. ios thread. It's about a real person who needs real advice.

I won't address the hypothetical that the OP is wrong about not wanting to upgrade. I'll assume she knows her habits well enough to say she won't upgrade and advise her based on that.

I don't get your second point. Yeah, I don't have an Air I have a Pro. I know what both are capable of doing. This could be a case of your English not making you legible to me. Re-phrase.

The Air does have a better display - for many situations. Is it possible that she will be in a situation where the colour gamut will be an issue? Possibly. But it's certainly not probable and definitely not a given at this point.

RE: The used market. Maybe the Pro will be worth more, maybe it won't.

Your second to last statement makes zero sense so I won't address it.

What technical points?

 

[Bauer24]

I guess the OP needs to get some unbiased advice from people working with video editing. She's had plenty of input from a couple of web designers.

It can be a nightmare trying to figure out whether what you want to buy will do the job. Knowing which opinions are based on usage specific to what you're gonna be working on. I spent months researching whether my Air would run CS6 apps well, the main reason I bought it was because I'm currently working on a job that requires I be present at a client's office, and having switched to freelance I need to be a lot more mobile. If not for that I'd still be running just my Pro.

The Pro (mine's the 15 incher) is heavier but getting the right bag makes a lot of difference.

I agree with this. When I used to have a 15" Pro it was faster than my current machine but I switched to a smaller form factor due to portability. When I did have the 15", my back thanked me for getting a good case.

Maybe should've mentioned this earlier, but one and a half years to go and I'm done with school. After I graduate, I actually plan on trying out to be a stewardess and working as a freelance designer and photographer part time. I just realized that would make this a little more inclined to the Air? Or does it not?

Yeah, I'd say that favours the Air. Being a part-time Stewardess/Designer/Photographer seems less likely to strain a laptop than being a "Peter Jackson-esque" video editor haha.

Go Air!

 

[m00min]

Maybe should've mentioned this earlier, but one and a half years to go and I'm done with school. After I graduate, I actually plan on trying out to be a stewardess and working as a freelance designer and photographer part time. I just realized that would make this a little more inclined to the Air? Or does it not?

That kind of portability does swing back in favour of the Air. It's just the video aspect that worries me.

 

[3dflyboy1]

I haven't done any graphic design or whatnot, but from what I've seen the pro would be better for th OP. For an average student who just needs a word processing/research/light gaming computer, the air is perfect, even with 4GB of RAM. That's my route, as I'm looking around to buy a used base 2011 MBA 13.

 

[mfa39]

Thanks for the replies, everyone! Really appreciate it!

Based on your answers, I think it all boils down to whether I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of performance for the Air's portability.

A huge factor in getting the Macbook Pro seems to be its upgradeability - but as I've mentioned before, and even if it seems weird, I don't see myself seeing the need to in a few years. (and if we're talking resale value - the need for upgradeability blurs a bit considering Apple's value is huuuuge and if I ever find myself needing to upgrade then I could easily sell what I'm getting in a few years and get an updated machine. but that's off topic and unidentifiable at this point.)

I'll go over everyone's answers again when I get home and try to decide for myself. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me with this! I hope you all have a good day!

 

[Lunfai]

I have the 13 inch with 8GB ram and I've been working exclusively on UI/UX and web design, and I've been managing with an external screen. I don't really do work on the standard screen unless its word processing or research, but I think it would be doable. For designing the websites and UI applications that I've been involved with so far, I've had no problems. But if you're working with bigger files, this could be a problem as being a graphic designer would work with huge files that are A3' or even A2'.

Multiltasking might be troublesome for you whilst dealing with these files, but I do manage to keep web browser with 2-6 tabs, coda running and photoshop running, which is my minimum setup for the projects I work on. Again this is just my own personal preference, if I was in your shoes I would really look at a widows laptop for now, and buy an external monitor to work on as this could give you better work flow, as you'll have a larger screen to work with, and you might be able to get a laptop with the same or better specs for 3/4 of the price, and then buy a low/mid garmut 24" monitor. (Look up dell monitors, they have some decent ones for around 1/4 the total price).

If you have to have a mac, the MacBook Pro.

I read you don't know how to upgrade, but you can find guides on ifixit, and you can follow the instructions yourself to upgrade it. Don't worry, it's VERY EASY, and hard to make a mistake, especially if your only upgrading ram modules. You don't need to take it back to Apple to upgrade, just buy them online and follow the guides online .

Hope this helped!

 

[primalman]

I'm gonna jump in here. I have been doing graphic design on Macs for the last 20+ years, all the way from the days before Photoshop even existed. That said, the best Mac you need is the one you have. You do not need the highest spec and most powerful to accomplish something, it is just that you can do more faster and with more ease on a better spec machine. But, I am going to throw in that a larger screen is actually going to benefit you as much as more RAM. You might consider going the refurbished route and getting a low-spec 15", like the previous generation. You can get at or close to the same price as the 13" you are looking at. My recommendation - and again as a designer and teacher of design for over 20 years, the user of dozens of Macs from 20MHz screamers with 4 MB RAM and 500 MB hard drives up to the powerful MacBook Pros and Mac Pros of today - that a refurb 15" MacBook Pro with a RAM upgrade to 8 GB purchased aftermarket from someplace like Other World Computing will get you further into the future and make your time actually using the computer to use design, photo and video software enjoyable and productive.

and PS - I have done plenty of light video and motion design as well on 15" Pros, which is what I am using now, have been using the last 4 years and will be purchasing one next week to take me for the next 3-4 years. Though, I am going to get a huge screen for my desk this time

 

[Bauer24]

I have the 13 inch with 8GB ram and I've been working exclusively on UI/UX and web design, and I've been managing with an external screen. I don't really do work on the standard screen unless its word processing or research, but I think it would be doable. For designing the websites and UI applications that I've been involved with so far, I've had no problems. But if you're working with bigger files, this could be a problem as being a graphic designer would work with huge files that are A3' or even A2'.

Multiltasking might be troublesome for you whilst dealing with these files, but I do manage to keep web browser with 2-6 tabs, coda running and photoshop running, which is my minimum setup for the projects I work on. Again this is just my own personal preference, if I was in your shoes I would really look at a widows laptop for now, and buy an external monitor to work on as this could give you better work flow, as you'll have a larger screen to work with, and you might be able to get a laptop with the same or better specs for 3/4 of the price, and then buy a low/mid garmut 24" monitor. (Look up dell monitors, they have some decent ones for around 1/4 the total price).

If you have to have a mac, the MacBook Pro.

I read you don't know how to upgrade, but you can find guides on ifixit, and you can follow the instructions yourself to upgrade it. Don't worry, it's VERY EASY, and hard to make a mistake, especially if your only upgrading ram modules. You don't need to take it back to Apple to upgrade, just buy them online and follow the guides online .

Hope this helped!

I don't think it's that she doesn't know how to upgrade, it's that she doesn't want to upgrade. On that basis, that specific advantage of the Pro disappears and tips the scales towards the Air. Especially, as you say, a larger screen res is desirable for the workflow.

You are very welcome OP. Feel free to PM me for any specific questions about the Air.

----------

I'm gonna jump in here. I have been doing graphic design on Macs for the last 20+ years, all the way from the days before Photoshop even existed. That said, the best Mac you need is the one you have. You do not need the highest spec and most powerful to accomplish something, it is just that you can do more faster and with more ease on a better spec machine. But, I am going to throw in that a larger screen is actually going to benefit you as much as more RAM. You might consider going the refurbished route and getting a low-spec 15", like the previous generation. You can get at or close to the same price as the 13" you are looking at. My recommendation - and again as a designer and teacher of design for over 20 years, the user of dozens of Macs from 20MHz screamers with 4 MB RAM and 500 MB hard drives up to the powerful MacBook Pros and Mac Pros of today - that a refurb 15" MacBook Pro with a RAM upgrade to 8 GB purchased aftermarket from someplace like Other World Computing will get you further into the future and make your time actually using the computer to use design, photo and video software enjoyable and productive.

and PS - I have done plenty of light video and motion design as well on 15" Pros, which is what I am using now, have been using the last 4 years and will be purchasing one next week to take me for the next 3-4 years. Though, I am going to get a huge screen for my desk this time

Yeah I agree with everything here. It certainly isn't about the specs, it's about the creativity and workflow (which is aided in part with a higher res screen).

I would only add that I don't think the weight/bulk of the 15" Pro is something the OP wants. Otherwise I would have recommended it too.

 

[primalman]

I would only add that I don't think the weight/bulk of the 15" Pro is something the OP wants. Otherwise I would have recommended it too.

You have to make tradeoffs somewhere to get the right mix of attributes to get the proper performance, longevity and overall value. To me the scale would go:

1. the above refurb 15" recommendation
2. 13" Pro with modest aftermarket RAM upgrade
3. 13" Air with 8 GB RAM upgrade
4. If no upgrades at all I would go 13" Pro since you get more on disk storage.

Though I see the appeal of an Air, as I carry my 15" Pro everywhere [shoulder, bike, planes, meetings, hotels, etc], for doing design work, screen real estate trumps 1-2 pounds to me. A good bag takes care of that.

 

[Bauer24]

You have to make tradeoffs somewhere to get the right mix of attributes to get the proper performance, longevity and overall value. To me the scale would go:

1. the above refurb 15" recommendation
2. 13" Pro with modest aftermarket RAM upgrade
3. 13" Air with 8 GB RAM upgrade
4. If no upgrades at all I would go 13" Pro since you get more on disk storage.

Though I see the appeal of an Air, as I carry my 15" Pro everywhere [shoulder, bike, planes, meetings, hotels, etc], for doing design work, screen real estate trumps 1-2 pounds to me. A good bag takes care of that.

I guess the issue is that when you say "proper performance.." this is subjective. The performance gap between current gen Air and last gen Pro is very small and in some cases the Air beats the Pro due to upgraded Ivy Bridge. And overall value could mean less weight to someone, when it means more performance and upgradeability to you. The other issue is that she won't be using an external screen so if you're saying real estate is King, then shouldn't the Air be below the 15" Pro, especially with no upgrades? IMO, it makes more sense because she gets the benefit of weight, higher res screen (more real estate) and faster SSD right off the bat. Some thing like more storage is easily remedied with an external because let's be honest, even with a 500GB drive in the 13" Pro, she's still probably going to want an external drive.

 

[primalman]

I guess the issue is that when you say "proper performance.." this is subjective. The performance gap between current gen Air and last gen Pro is very small and in some cases the Air beats the Pro due to upgraded Ivy Bridge. And overall value could mean less weight to someone, when it means more performance and upgradeability to you. The other issue is that she won't be using an external screen so if you're saying real estate is King, then shouldn't the Air be below the 15" Pro, especially with no upgrades? IMO, it makes more sense because she gets the benefit of weight, higher res screen (more real estate) and faster SSD right off the bat. Some thing like more storage is easily remedied with an external because let's be honest, even with a 500GB drive in the 13" Pro, she's still probably going to want an external drive.

By proper in this context I mean good, solid and quick performance. True that in general tasks on the Air they can be on par to, and sometimes beat, the MBP, but when you get into PS and video, the 15" will outperform in general, mainly because those applications can often take advantage of the additional CPU cores and the discreet GPU for certain tasks [like encoding and decoding for video], greatly enhancing the performance and usability. That is not really subjective. Slow video encoding and image processing is slow. If you're going to do video or image editing much above a hobby, power becomes important quickly.

The Air is lower in my list, number 1 being number 1 and all.

Sure, we all need externals, especially people who do video or work with many/large image files. But, video takes a LOT of disk space, so filling up that fast SSD will not take long. She will need externals from the get go for backup and storing not-currently used video files, but she does not want to upgrade much at all it seems, so the MBP is the winner since it has more onboard storage by default. [I have over 6 TB of archive and backup storage, for a MBP with a 500 GB HD and an archive system that is really only 2 TB of actual data. Gotta be safe my friends!]

Just for fun, EDU prices since she says she is a student, pretty tight spread:
Base 13" MBP - $1099
Base 13" Air - $1149
Refurb Base 15" MBP, previous generation - $1359

 

[thekev]

I'm not! The portability just seems like a big deal. I see a lot of MBA users who emphasize how heavy the MBP is compared to it, and they also say how when they've gone Air they really can't go back - which I assume is because they're generally satisfied with its performance. I've also checked out videos that compare the speeds of the two when rendering videos thru Final Cut Pro and importing photos on Photoshop and it seems they're almost the same.

I really don't know. I'm looking to getting whichever has the more pros for me, also considering how I don't really see myself splurging on the upgrades.

Go to the Apple Store if one is near you. Pick one up. If you're just carrying a 13" macbook pro, tell me if it really seems like a lot of weight. It's 3 pounds for the Air or 4.5 for the 13" pro. Saying that 4.5 pounds is too much weight to transport regularly is asinine. Go compare in person and you'll understand. For what you're doing, I wouldn't consider anything with sub 8GB. Most of these applications recommend 8GB of ram with 4 being the minimum. Some of them have vram recommendations which are not met with integrated graphics and 4GB. This is just the reality that 64 bit applications use more ram and Apple has held back on it in their standard configurations.

In the next years you will find that studying/doing graphic design is more than rendering videos and importing photos. Also, as i already said, rarely one ha sa workflow including just one program at once. Performance –are– important, the simplest example of that is that with an air you will probably need more time to complete your assignments, not so smart.

I don't know why you are so anti-ugrades, take in mind apple' upgrade prices are artificially higher, 8gb ram are 45$ right no, will be 30 in year. If you are "anti upgrade" because of budget reasons, well, you should really buy the machine that wil last more not the one that is nicer.

16GB is under $100. Last time I had 8, I still had a lot of stuff still written to disk or paged out. SSD helped, but it's not great to rely solely on that. It's also more expensive than ram. Most of the memory consumption was limited to 1-2 applications working with very large files.

Makes sense. I'm thinking too much about the portability but tbh if that's the only thing that makes the Air better, then that big of a price difference is probably not worth it. Thanks so much!




Ah, of course I won't only be using one app/program at a time - I only meant the "heavy" programs. But yes I do see how I'll need to run a lot of programs at the same time when working.

Haha, I'll get around to it someday! Never had to study them because I've been stuck with my computer for, I don't know, 10 years? And haven't felt the need to upgrade since now that it literally feels like it has cancer.

And I'm not "anti upgrades" - I just don't see myself needing THAT much power when I don't have much complaints now at 2GB RAM. It's more of a budget issue as well, tbh I'm only asking my mom - sole breadwinner in my family - for it and it makes me feel thick-faced because we have a looooot of expenses lately, but I reaaally need a new laptop, so yeah.

Thanks again for your help!

Ram and cpus are a moving target. If you never update software versions, it doesn't seem like a bottleneck. If you intend to use the latest versions, 2GB is below their minimum supported requirements. Most of those programs require 4GB minimum. They may launch without it, but they are not supported with less than that. If you're buying a computer today, going for minimum requirements on something as cheap as memory seems like a mistake. The portability thing is a definite mistake. The Air is absolutely effortless to transport, but this doesn't mean nothing else is practical. When thinkpads were owned by IBM, they were incredibly popular among business travelers. They were heavier than many competing notebooks, but they were extremely durable. People still traveled with them because of this. Saying that a 13" notebook is too heavy is just ridiculous. None of them will fit in your pocket, so that isn't a determining factor. If you pick one up, you'll see what I mean. I don't personally feel comfortable carrying either bare. In terms of ability to transport, shaving a pound is only a big factor if you must hike long distances or keep luggage under a certain weight. In terms of taking it to class, I see this as a very minor issue.

Ah, I've not been clear there, I bought a MBP in 2010, it had 4gb of RAM. It was ok for my usage and my CS3 software. Just recently I upgraded the RAM to 8gb for CS6. I always intended to upgrade the RAM and with the Pro I had that option, I'm not sure CS6 would have coped well enough on 4gb. If you go with an Air I would suggest the BTO 8gb upgrade because in a couple of years you won't be able to do as I did and pop in a few extra GBs.

Also, I was a student long enough ago that 4gb of RAM was unheard of. I think my college machine had a whole 146mb

CS3 was much less ram hungry. It wasn't really built to handle everything in ram. It was still a 32 bit carbon application which could only address up to 3 or 4 GB directly. I think it was 4 total yet the last 1GB was a bit restricted. It could cache extra data through the OS beyond that, but this made little difference. CS6 is a completely different beast. These things are really programmed to take advantage of the hardware that is available at that time. Newer versions of creative suite (post CS4 on OSX) tend to hold more things in ram whenever possible.

Just for fun, EDU prices since she says she is a student, pretty tight spread:
Base 13" MBP - $1099
Base 13" Air - $1149
Refurb Base 15" MBP, previous generation - $1359

That 15" is actually quite snappy. All of these will run pretty hot with the OP's uses. That's something that has always annoyed me.

 

[iamsen47]

A little late to the party, but if you're budget conscious and need/want the specs, why not get a Mini?

You"ve still got almost 2 years of school left so the mid range mini will more than provide for you during those 2 years (and many more after that).

I did a mix of graphics and 3D/video work on a ****** $600 Acer laptop with 8G ram for 6 years and it lasted me fine. It didn't even have an OS, I had to install winXP myself! Just make sure you get a good monitor for the print-critical work and you're good to go. Unless you plan to be working outside, it's not even necessary to have a laptop and with the Mini, it's portable enough to bring to school/work.

Get something cheap and 'good enough' to last you through school. The cash you save will protect your sanity and stress levels; important if you don't want to end up looking all haggard while going for that stewardess interview.

Just because you do design work doesn't mean you need the fastest and most up to date machines. I've had to work at places were they were still running OS9 or winXP with photoshop 5.0 in them. Considering what we had to work with 10 years ago and is available now, even the 'pro-sumer' machines are more than adequate for 'professional' work.

 

[mfa39]

I have the 13 inch with 8GB ram and I've been working exclusively on UI/UX and web design, and I've been managing with an external screen. I don't really do work on the standard screen unless its word processing or research, but I think it would be doable. For designing the websites and UI applications that I've been involved with so far, I've had no problems. But if you're working with bigger files, this could be a problem as being a graphic designer would work with huge files that are A3' or even A2'.

Multiltasking might be troublesome for you whilst dealing with these files, but I do manage to keep web browser with 2-6 tabs, coda running and photoshop running, which is my minimum setup for the projects I work on. Again this is just my own personal preference, if I was in your shoes I would really look at a widows laptop for now, and buy an external monitor to work on as this could give you better work flow, as you'll have a larger screen to work with, and you might be able to get a laptop with the same or better specs for 3/4 of the price, and then buy a low/mid garmut 24" monitor. (Look up dell monitors, they have some decent ones for around 1/4 the total price).

If you have to have a mac, the MacBook Pro.

I read you don't know how to upgrade, but you can find guides on ifixit, and you can follow the instructions yourself to upgrade it. Don't worry, it's VERY EASY, and hard to make a mistake, especially if your only upgrading ram modules. You don't need to take it back to Apple to upgrade, just buy them online and follow the guides online .

Hope this helped!

Thanks for the info! You didn't mention what 13 inch model you have - is it the Air or the Pro? If it's the Air, I can see myself with that basic setup as well - a few tabs on Chrome, and Photoshop. If that setup runs smoothly, I think I would be good to go? And no I'm really on a budget so I can't even look at an external monitor for now. The monitor I'm using now is a 15" and never had any complaints with its size when working/designing. It does help, thanks so much!

I'm gonna jump in here. I have been doing graphic design on Macs for the last 20+ years, all the way from the days before Photoshop even existed. That said, the best Mac you need is the one you have. You do not need the highest spec and most powerful to accomplish something, it is just that you can do more faster and with more ease on a better spec machine. But, I am going to throw in that a larger screen is actually going to benefit you as much as more RAM. You might consider going the refurbished route and getting a low-spec 15", like the previous generation. You can get at or close to the same price as the 13" you are looking at. My recommendation - and again as a designer and teacher of design for over 20 years, the user of dozens of Macs from 20MHz screamers with 4 MB RAM and 500 MB hard drives up to the powerful MacBook Pros and Mac Pros of today - that a refurb 15" MacBook Pro with a RAM upgrade to 8 GB purchased aftermarket from someplace like Other World Computing will get you further into the future and make your time actually using the computer to use design, photo and video software enjoyable and productive.

and PS - I have done plenty of light video and motion design as well on 15" Pros, which is what I am using now, have been using the last 4 years and will be purchasing one next week to take me for the next 3-4 years. Though, I am going to get a huge screen for my desk this time

Thanks! I agree, I don't really need the computer with the BEST specs - I guess I'm just comparing which one can do my work smoothly and which one overall has the better bang for the buck.

I think I should probably also mention that I won't ALWAYS be working on photo and video editing. I think I'll still be doing more basic stuff - web browsing, downloading, etc - than photo/video editing. Will carrying around the MacBook Pro on those days be...worth it? (Lol idk - I really don't have a problem with the size of the Pro, it's just that when it's compared to the Air...)

I don't think it's that she doesn't know how to upgrade, it's that she doesn't want to upgrade. On that basis, that specific advantage of the Pro disappears and tips the scales towards the Air. Especially, as you say, a larger screen res is desirable for the workflow.

You are very welcome OP. Feel free to PM me for any specific questions about the Air.

I would only add that I don't think the weight/bulk of the 15" Pro is something the OP wants. Otherwise I would have recommended it too.

Yup, this. I don't know how to upgrade nor do I see myself wanting to. If the performance of the Air and the Pro are as good as it's said to be, even without the upgrades, I'd be fine with that. Again - I don't need the BEST specs. I need just those good enough for the work that I'll be doing.

Oh, thanks! There hasn't been a specific answer to this so far so if I may ask - can the 8GB Air work with Photoshop and Final Cut Pro at the same time? I only ever work with 1 - 3 minute videos btw, so I'm not sure if that qualifies as "intense" which people say would need the Macbook Pro. Not that I would ever run those two at the same time, but it's going to say a lot if it actually can.

Yup, not considering the 15" Pro. The 13" ones are really the ones I find ideal for me.

PS. I do have external drives already. One's 500GB and another's 1TB.

Go to the Apple Store if one is near you. Pick one up. If you're just carrying a 13" macbook pro, tell me if it really seems like a lot of weight. It's 3 pounds for the Air or 4.5 for the 13" pro. Saying that 4.5 pounds is too much weight to transport regularly is asinine. Go compare in person and you'll understand. For what you're doing, I wouldn't consider anything with sub 8GB. Most of these applications recommend 8GB of ram with 4 being the minimum. Some of them have vram recommendations which are not met with integrated graphics and 4GB. This is just the reality that 64 bit applications use more ram and Apple has held back on it in their standard configurations.

SSD helped, but it's not great to rely solely on that. It's also more expensive than ram. Most of the memory consumption was limited to 1-2 applications working with very large files.

The Air is absolutely effortless to transport, but this doesn't mean nothing else is practical. When thinkpads were owned by IBM, they were incredibly popular among business travelers. They were heavier than many competing notebooks, but they were extremely durable. People still traveled with them because of this. Saying that a 13" notebook is too heavy is just ridiculous. None of them will fit in your pocket, so that isn't a determining factor. If you pick one up, you'll see what I mean. I don't personally feel comfortable carrying either bare. In terms of ability to transport, shaving a pound is only a big factor if you must hike long distances or keep luggage under a certain weight. In terms of taking it to class, I see this as a very minor issue.

That 15" is actually quite snappy. All of these will run pretty hot with the OP's uses. That's something that has always annoyed me.

Yup, I'm already sold on the 8GB. Only deciding now whether to get the Air or the Pro.

How do you define "very large" files? As far as I can remember, I haven't produced a PSD that's more than 200MB.

I have no problem with the weight of the Macbook Pro 13" - it's more of a, which is more practical considering the weight as well, since, in the long run, I won't only be doing freelance design work which will require me to visit clients, I might also travel the world for a living.

A little late to the party, but if you're budget conscious and need/want the specs, why not get a Mini?

Get something cheap and 'good enough' to last you through school. The cash you save will protect your sanity and stress levels; important if you don't want to end up looking all haggard while going for that stewardess interview.

Just because you do design work doesn't mean you need the fastest and most up to date machines.

Ah but no, aside from switching from Windows to Mac, I'm really looking forward to switching from a desktop to a laptop. I feel like continuing with a desktop is going to give me scoliosis. Yes, that's what I'm looking for really. The good enough computer for me and my work. Both the Air and the Pro seem to have good enough performances, so now I also have to take into consideration the WHOLE package.