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Forget California, It's time to recall Microsoft

Originally posted by xpormac
Wow, I didn't know that, hehe.
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OMG, not this crap again... Apple has BILLIONS big guy, seriously. They didn't need Bill's money, thank you very much. Somehow, whenever Mac users post stuff about how much they dislike windoze or whatever, there's always somebody that wastes everyones time by posting smack about the Mac on Mac boards. Heck, if I can't be a Mac fan on a Mac board, where to then? Windowze is junk. Will they fix it someday? I dunno. Everytime I use it for work, school, or whatever it crashes and burns (XP, 2K, you name it - your mileage may vary, I speak of personal experience, and multitasking? Puuuuhlllleeeeaaaazzzee). I've always been a big Mac fan, and a HUGE UNIX fan - so my world is pretty sweet right now. If you can't say something nice, then GO AWAY!

Thank you very much!
 
Originally posted by wdlove
I believe that is about the time that Bill Gates showed on the screen during Steve Jobs Keynote at MW Boston in 1997!
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I remember the booing!:D
 
Originally posted by VIREBEL661
OMG, not this crap again... Apple has BILLIONS big guy, seriously. They didn't need Bill's money, thank you very much. Somehow, whenever Mac users post stuff about how much they dislike windoze or whatever, there's always somebody that wastes everyones time by posting smack about the Mac on Mac boards. Heck, if I can't be a Mac fan on a Mac board, where to then? Windowze is junk. Will they fix it someday? I dunno. Everytime I use it for work, school, or whatever it crashes and burns (XP, 2K, you name it - your mileage may vary, I speak of personal experience, and multitasking? Puuuuhlllleeeeaaaazzzee). I've always been a big Mac fan, and a HUGE UNIX fan - so my world is pretty sweet right now. If you can't say something nice, then GO AWAY!

Thank you very much!
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.....huh....?
 
Mac versus PC is yet another pissing contest in what we call life.

It's like arguing religion, political party or even sexual preference.

There's geeks out there that argue Linux versus FreeBSD, or argue even the different linux versions AMD or Intel? bash or tcsh? vi or emacs? coffee or tea? coke or pepsi? Ford or Chevy?

There's no right or wrong. There are events that happen that make the opposing favorite the knight in shining armor - but neither side ever wins grounds or arguments. We know what we believe is best and so do they. While they might think we're ignorant and we might think they're ignorant - everyone is different and thus there isn't a right or wrong.

The only difference in our argument is market share.

EDIT:
This is just the normal course of affairs with two competing companies. If there wasn't Apple there would be Microsoft - a pure monopoly. We wouldn't want that now, would we?
 
Originally posted by xpormac
Explain how it kills your performance gains in hardware? lol

No, not true, you can buy a top of the line system from most companies out there.

Nope, Hardcore 3d modeling guy. Don't know why you would say this though.
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Windows kills your performance gains by ofsetting them. The fact that Windows itself is pretty bloated and inefficient means that extra power is necessary for equal performance.

You can buy a top of the line system from most companies out there, but those systems are still generally a piecing together of a lot of random parts without a terrible amount of thinking. For example, PC companies' cases are simply small modifications on generic cases whereas Apple pours a lot of R&D into optimizing the efficiency and aesthetics of its computers through case design. Also, one of those most important components, the operating system, is made by a third-party in the case of PC manufacturers. On the other hand, since Apple makes the operating system, it can ensure that the software and hardware play together nicely.

And I suggested that you might be a hardcore gamer because from my experience, that category of computer users is the one that most vocally demonstrates its preference for Windows. Understandably so, for compatability and graphics card reasons.

With the disparity in graphics hardware between Macs and PCs now, I might see how you would prefer a PC for your 3d modeling. However, traditionally, design has been the domain of the Mac.

BrandonRP0123: The futility of an argument has never served as a sufficient reason for people to stop arguing. :D
 
There is one good thing about PCs...you can always run Unix/Linux on them pretty decently. I nearly went for that option before I went to Apple instead. 4 years ago it was amazing how ahead of the technology curve Apple was compared to the PC market. They still are, but Motorola has definitely slowed them down allowing the PC market to catch up. Not to mention, any Mac looks better than the butt ugly Gateway that I was using before.
 
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
They still are, but Motorola has definitely slowed them down allowing the PC market to catch up. Not to mention, any Mac looks better than the butt ugly Gateway that I was using before.
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lol, no. Macs are not ahead of PC technology. As much as you would like to think, PC technology is getting better every day, yet, it takes a year or so for an updated processor from apple to come out. Its not just processors either, www.tomshardware.com new stuff always in development :D


Saying a mac looks better than the butt ugly Gateway is so true, but Gateway is a very low quality brand, not much to expect. I really do hope though, that just because a desktop looks all "pretty" you don't buy if for that reason :rolleyes:
 
How many PCs have Firewire 400? Not many...how many have Firewire 800? None...how many have Gigabit Ethernet? Not many...yet even PowerBooks have them. How many PCs out there can you get with 8 gigs RAM? How many years has Apple had 802.11b before a single PC had it? Quite a few...how many PCs have 64 bit processors shipping right now (not servers or workstations but being able to get a Dell or a Compaq or an Acer or anything with one) none that I see...how many have had DVD burners for the past few years? Not that many...how many use more efficent RISC processors? How many have bluetooth built in? Not very many...how many PCs can you get with dual Pentium 4s? None...I am sure I can go on for quite some time...
 
How many PCs have Firewire 400? Not many...how many have Firewire 800? None...how many have Gigabit Ethernet? Not many...yet even PowerBooks have them. How many PCs out there can you get with 8 gigs RAM? How many years has Apple had 802.11b before a single PC had it? Quite a few...how many PCs have 64 bit processors shipping right now (not servers or workstations but being able to get a Dell or a Compaq or an Acer or anything with one) none that I see...how many have had DVD burners for the past few years? Not that many...how many use more efficent RISC processors? How many have bluetooth built in? Not very many...how many PCs can you get with dual Pentium 4s? None...I am sure I can go on for quite some time...
 
The question is not 'how many', the question is 'could you get it if YOU needed it ?' and the answer to most questions is 'yes'...and more.

64bit obteron systems have been available for a couple months now, they are not mainstream but neither is the G5 at this point. You can't get dual pentium4's but a single 3.06Ghz P4 is still faster than your dual 1.25 G4, so who cares. You can get a Xeon (or opteron or whatever) if you need more power...

I still much prefer macs, but Apple being ahead of the technology curve (just hardware/feature wise) is a myth. But they shine at quality and integration...and looks, of course :D
 
The Sony PCs have FW400 -- they call it iLink. The rest rely on USB 2.0, which isn't as good.
8GB RAM and 64-bit systems is actually the same point, since it's the 64-bit nature that lets the G5 use more than 4GB RAM.
As for RISC, well, that's why the PC world has umpteen-GHz processors. Fast and stupid vs. slow and smart -- take your pick.
The other stuff has some substance, but I've always thought that the real point here is this: Assuming that Macs and PCs are, in fact, comparable in features and speed, why would you choose the system that suffers from virus problems, worm problems, instability and insecurity?
 
Originally posted by idea_hamster
Assuming that Macs and PCs are, in fact, comparable in features and speed, why would you choose the system that suffers from virus problems, worm problems, instability and insecurity?
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two things : firewall and antivirs software

wala...no problems, with a fast, speedy computer, for less than $1000.



Remember, macs can still be pron to these things.
 
Originally posted by xpormac
lol, no. Macs are not ahead of PC technology. As much as you would like to think, PC technology is getting better every day, yet, it takes a year or so for an updated processor from apple to come out. Its not just processors either, www.tomshardware.com new stuff always in development :D


Saying a mac looks better than the butt ugly Gateway is so true, but Gateway is a very low quality brand, not much to expect. I really do hope though, that just because a desktop looks all "pretty" you don't buy if for that reason :rolleyes:
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what "new stuff" are you talking about? Things like hard drives, external periphs., etc., are all the same for Macs v. PCs.

Graphics cards, Macs are behind.
RAM, the 400Mhz RAM is not THE THE best, but how many PCs do you see with 466?
The hard drives were a concern before, too, but Apple is packaging some very nice hard drives with the G5.
Processors? Macs were behind on bus before, but now they are ahead. The Intel architecture is just bad. AMD is a little better, pioneering the 64-bit in workstations and hyperthreading, but it still has the problems of its competitor. Adding a whole bunch of specialized instructions just to compensate for that CISC architecture is what causes all the heating issues.

SO maybe those are the "new stuff" PCs are coming out with every day: Fans & Power supplies to keep up with the over-heating, over-draining processor.

And to compare the product cycle of the Mac in the last few years of slow Motorola development with what is likely to be much quicker development (Fishkill willing!) is really quite foolish...No, not a fair comparison at all.

But that is just my perspective on the matter. One one hand, I disagree with many, many other people in that I believe that the Mac vs. PC issue can lead to a healthy, informative debate, in which both sides learn a lot, provided we stick with technical issues instead of stooping down to Bill Gaytz SUXORZ! W00T! W00T! DIE MICROSUX! HAHAHAHA. While I might keep my opinion and you yours, the exchange of information could do us both good. On the other hand, I think that you are here more to incite the aforementioned negative response so that you may sit back and laugh at "those immature Mac fanatics." Why do I believe this? You haven't really founded your argument in any technical evidence, but just cited a large compendium of information on tomshardware.com, which is by the way a great site. Can you show me anything specific? Anything that demonstrates all the multi-faceted leaps and bounds of the PC world? If you can, that's great. But we can do without your condescending "LOL"s thrown about and your pats on the back when we decide not to point out the flaws in your arguments (see xpormac's reponse to PowerbookG5).

Thanks. And if you'd like, we could have a more constructive discussion on this matter.
 
Originally posted by xpormac
two things : firewall and antivirs software

wala...no problems, with a fast, speedy computer, for less than $1000.



Remember, macs can still be pron to these things.
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Not to the same degree...This is no credit to Apple, but credit to the unpopularity of the Macintosh platform. Who would want to wreak havoc on 3% of the market, when he could wreak havoc on 91%? Simple common sense. Much less likely to catch the attention of major news outlets by disgruntling a few Mac owners.

And antivirus software causes performance degradation. Firewalls, also, aren't perfect and can cause inconveniences when attempting to engage in certain safe data tranmissions with individuals outside of the firewall.
 
Originally posted by xpormac ...a fast, speedy computer, for less than $1000. Remember, macs can still be pron[e] to these things.
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True, that Macs are not invulnerable, just not a common target.

But I don't think that the $1000 will get you a PC that has everything you get with a Mac (I'm including iApps, SuperDrive, etc.).

And none of that cures the "Windows has encountered a fatal exception and must close" business that I get at work.
 
Originally posted by idea_hamster
And none of that cures the "Windows has encountered a fatal exception and must close" business that I get at work.
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Maybe I take care of my PC more than most, but I have never encountered that before. Nor have I had a blue screen "of death" or a crash or freeze up on windows xp.


But I don't think that the $1000 will get you a PC that has everything you get with a Mac
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For $1,000, I could build one hell of a system, dvd/cdwriter 3.2 ghz processor, 120 gig hd, ect. As for software needs....<thank you kazaa :p >
 
Originally posted by idea_hamster
The Sony PCs have FW400 -- they call it iLink. The rest rely on USB 2.0, which isn't as good.
8GB RAM and 64-bit systems is actually the same point, since it's the 64-bit nature that lets the G5 use more than 4GB RAM.
As for RISC, well, that's why the PC world has umpteen-GHz processors. Fast and stupid vs. slow and smart -- take your pick.
The other stuff has some substance, but I've always thought that the real point here is this: Assuming that Macs and PCs are, in fact, comparable in features and speed, why would you choose the system that suffers from virus problems, worm problems, instability and insecurity?
Click to expand...

you can get a FW400 PCI card for about $25, and a FW800 for $80 (or less). It might not come standard in most cases, but it is there if you need it.
Regarding the processors, RISC might use less power but then there is low power alternatives on the PC side as well... and the superiority of RISC is overrated IMHO... the G5 is not 'crushing the competition' as advertised. It might be a more elegant (little cheaper, less power) solution, but it just gets them up to par with existing Intel/AMD offerings speedwise...and you still need two G4's to compete with one pentium.

What I am trying to say is that the technology is out there and everybody can use it. Apple doesn't really have any superior 'secret weapon'. The real advantage of Apple is a solid platform by limiting the lineup and using same technologies accross the board. This, coupled with a tight OS makes for a great end-user experience, which is my main concern and the reason why I love macs. But I also own a PC for other reasons (software, price, viewport performance). Don't limit yourself by religious beliefs, swing both ways...

:D
 
"Windows has performed and illegal operation and will close" Damn...guess they stole something else! :D

I agree with the fact that sure, you can get a PC for $1000, but the Macs you are comparing that to have DVD burners, gigabit ethernet, all the cool iApps, OS X, airport extreme, firewire, .Mac capability (if you have the service), and if you add up all that in a PC, you get that PC for a *whole lot* more than that Mac. As far as the fact that you can protect your PC with antivirus and firewall software, we have both on our PCs and still they get virused even with all that added protection. Half the time it's because my family is gullible and naive, so they do stuff and open stuff they shouldn't. Then there is the Opteron issue. Granted, you can get one, but they are server/workstation class computers, not the kind you can go to Best Buy and get for $2000. It's kind of funny that even though I said exluding it, it was still brought up. I don't see too many people out there buying them. It's like buying an Xserve for doing casual web browsing and gaming. They are different markets. Anyway, back onto topic...the biggest thing that sets the platforms apart is that I cannot run Mac OS on a PC. I spent my whole life on DOS/Windows and I just got fed up with the crappy user experience and being dicked around by what Microsoft wants you to do. It doesn't much matter what is under the hood, either way, at the end of the day, I want to be using my Macintosh because I get a much more satisfying experience doing simple things as clicking around on the desktop. Not to mention all the wealth of power and flexibility of Unix under all that experience.
 
Originally posted by xpormac
Maybe I take care of my PC more than most, but I have never encountered that before. Nor have I had a blue screen "of death" or a crash or freeze up on windows xp.


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you sure you turn your PC on ? :p
I had apps crash on Win2K on any PC I used (4 over the last 3years at home and work)... to the point where I got so used to it that it doesn't even bother me anymore (just makes using the mac even sweeter)
 
I use both. At school I have an on campus job in the computer lap keeping both the Macs and the PCs up and running and networking like they should. I am also like some sort of IT on call in the res hall of my dorm floor since half the people there are burnt out junkies who don't see to know how to use a mouse, let alone troubleshoot their problems. I grew up building, upgrading, modding, and using PCs so I have had experience with all kinds of PCs. I just prefer Macs so much more. A great deal of it is just the annoyances of Windows that drive me up the wall. I wouldn't mind installing Linux on a PC box and just be done with it, but I doubt my parents would like do deal with using Linux on the Dell. It's too bad, I bet it'd be pretty sweet.
 
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I have an on campus job in the computer lap keeping both the Macs and the PCs up and running and networking like they should.
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Have you ever paid attention to the percentage of your time spent maintaining the Macs vs. maintaining the PCs? (Relative to the proportion of Macs to PCs at the school, of course.)

If it's true that admin is the same amount of effort on both systems, I'd would be more likely to think that maybe my problems at work are due to sub-standard IT people (rather than sub-standard T, that is!).
 
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