Former Apple Engineer Recalls Steve Jobs' Great Displeasure with Multi-Button Mouse Concepts

[Millah]

Wow that black pro mouse is beautiful. I want one now lol

If you think its cool today, imagine how incredible it was back in 2000. I still remember it, buying my first Ruby iMac back then, and using the mouse. It impressed the hell out of me. I still have it, its still today one of my favorite Apple designs ever.

The Apple fanbase todays mocks the use of plastic, but I personally wish Apple would go back to some of that old design philosophy they had in the 00's. Where they had a clear plastic bubble shell surrounding something, it gave this really cool futuristic look. Like the Pro Mouse.

 

[TouchMint.com]

A mouse with only 2 buttons is extreme annoying I can't imagine using one with one button but it sounds like the worst haha.

 

[mdelvecchio]

Both windows and OSX use the right mouse button click to bring up a contextual menu. Its silly to only have a one button mouse which forces the second button to the keyboard only.

as noted, Windows' contextual menu is required, Mac's is not.

but nothing has stopped you from enabling it in OS X.

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It's obviously a matter of taste, because the magic mouse is the best mouse I've ever used. When I use my Windows PC, I miss it. The swipe-gestures on the magic mouse make web browsing and general navigation much snappier, right-click works perfectly without the keyboard, double-tap to zoom is great, and I find the magic mouse especially comfortable for long sessions of video editing etc.

agreed -- love the magic mouse and it's touch-surface. scrolling, swiping to other desktops, tap-to-zoom, etc...

i just use a different mouse for gaming, as thats a specialized use case different than general computing.

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I happen to agree with you. The magic mouse looks great, but functionally, it is not as easy to use as a standard mouse. Also, its about 60% more expensive, which is another downfall.

how odd, i find it much easier to use than a standard HP 2-button desktop mouse. on the standard HP mouse, how can i swipe to switch fullscreen apps? how do i tap-to-zoom? cant be done.

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So Steve thought it would be better to hold down the control key on a separate keyboard "device" instead of just adding a right mouse mutton?

nope. you simply dont need to right-click for needed functions. keep it simple. but, if you want the shortcuts, go ahead and enable them (OS X has supported it for over a decade).

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Apple mice are terrible. The Magic Mouse is a nice concept, but It sucks for video. You end up zooming and side scrolling all over the place when you readjust the mouse in your hand.

I shouldn't need to have hover hand or hover fingers when using a mouse.

There's a reason no other manufacturer has copied that design.

have never had this problem while watching video. in my use case, the ability to use gestures on the MM is way more valuable than whatever problem youre describing.

i do use a separate mouse for gaming -- a different use case.

 

[octothorpe8]

No that the 'backspace' key. The key labelled 'delete' is not found on laptops/wireless keyboards.
Think of them as forward delete and back delete.

Really? Because I'm gonna take a leap and say that for about 99% of people out there the button on every Mac keyboard that makes the cursor move back and delete what you just typed and has the word "delete" printed on it is what we'd call the "delete key".

And I've used that weird "forward delete" thing about 3 times in the last decade, if that, and I bet I'm not alone in that. If they're going to leave off one of the two delete keys to save space on a small keyboard, I'd say they did the right thing by omitting forward delete.

 

[burne]

Two mouse buttons aren't enough. I need a middle click to open a link in the background in Safari.

Here you go, good Sir:

A mouse with only 2 buttons is extreme annoying I can't imagine using one with one button but it sounds like the worst haha.

I'm not entirely sure but I think the Magic mouse can track six fingers, making it a seven button mouse, in theory. Complete with special attachments for two axis wheels and a zoom-in zoom-out thingamajig invisibly attached as well.

 

[imajez]

Early optical mice used laser diodes and not LEDs. This may just be them claiming the first LED mouse, and not the first optical mouse. I used a laser based mouse on an Apple II in the mid '80s. So optical was around for a long time before the pro mouse.

I distinctively recall Apple claiming to be ahead of the curve in adverts regarding their optical mouse, despite the fact that this was nothing new to PC users at the time. But then they've had to withdraw adverts on numerous occasions in the UK because they simply were not true.

 

[imajez]

nope. you simply dont need to right-click for needed functions. keep it simple. but, if you want the shortcuts, go ahead and enable them (OS X has supported it for over a decade).

Keeping it simple is right clicking and all the available options are right there by the mouse.
The so called simple version, involves you thoroghly learning your programmes, before deciding which parts to add shortcut keys to. If you do it any sooner then you may have to reassign shortcuts, which will be very confusing as well as more work.
Then you have to find keyboard combinations that hopefully make sense and are not already taken. You then tediously assign shortcuts.
Once that is done you need to use a second hand and possibly the one holding the mouse as well to enact said shortcut.
Add to that the fact that not all programmes allow keyboards shortcuts to be customised internally or via OSX.

So how on earth is that simpler, easier or more ergonomic that using a single hand to alt/click, move mouse slightly, click and you're done? With context menus a beginner can easily see what options are currently available, which is an incredibly useful learning tool and a prompt for tools you do not use often if you are more experienced.
Would you suggest getting rid of menus and replacing them with shortcuts?

 

[casperes1996]

The hockey mouse

Bought an iMac G3 not too long ago to revel in the old school Apple, and I gotta' admit that that hockey puck is surprisingly comfortable... Everyone seems to think I'm crazy when I say this, but I honestly really like it

 

[imajez]

Really? Because I'm gonna take a leap and say that for about 99% of people out there the button on every Mac keyboard that makes the cursor move back and delete what you just typed and has the word "delete" printed on it is what we'd call the "delete key".

So I must be imagining the fact that 'delete' is not written on any my MAc backspace keys [one of which is nearly 6 years old], it's also not on the keyboards that Apple currently sells either which are basically the same as mine. However if you go back and look at much older keyboards then delete is written on both the backspace and the [forward] delete key. Which is pretty dumb as they do two very different things and why they are now marked more accurately.

And I've used that weird "forward delete" thing about 3 times in the last decade, if that, and I bet I'm not alone in that. If they're going to leave off one of the two delete keys to save space on a small keyboard, I'd say they did the right thing by omitting forward delete.

I bet your maths about who uses what is about as accurate as your previous guess.
I suspect that you are so used to working around the forward delete, you don't even realise that you are doing it. Also bear in mind that the 'weird' key as you call it, is a fairly fundamental key on Windows machines which are still the vast majority of computers in existence.

 

[mryingster]

Bought an iMac G3 not too long ago to revel in the old school Apple, and I gotta' admit that that hockey puck is surprisingly comfortable... Everyone seems to think I'm crazy when I say this, but I honestly really like it

Aside from no right click, the hockey puck wasn't bad. I still have one on my old G4 just for fun. Unfortunately, the plastic has deteriorated and the blue part of the puck is sticky

Dude. I just had a flashback to when those came out. Our first one we modified to have a blue LED in it, like this: http://www.stocksy.co.uk/images/mouse/mouse-dark.jpg (disclaimer: someone else's, not mine)

 

[Lancer]

I always used 3rd party mice with my Mac's, so I had more than one button, until now. With the magic track pad which is a joy to use. The biggest issue is so many people didn't know when USB became the standard just about any PC mouse would work with the Mac. So many people had a bad user experience just because they were stuck using a single button mouse.

I understand why Steve wanted a simple user experience, which was okay in the 90's but now it's not needed.

 

[thebez]

Apple hasn't had a good mouse design since the first ADB mouse.

 

[akatsuki]

There were times that Jobs was wrong, and the single button mouse was definitely one of them. Most Apple mouses have been terrible. The current Magic Mouse is pretty decent, but still has significant flaws that show that (1) attention is completely on iOS and (2) Steve Jobs still didn't know how to do a mouse.

The Magic Mouse sensor is far too sensitive to any debris, the battery case opens too easily, it drains batteries quickly, and it should have inductive charging with recharge-ables anyway.

And for those defenders of single-button mice, you are just flat out wrong.

 

[koruki]

So Steve thought it would be better to hold down the control key on a separate keyboard "device" instead of just adding a right mouse mutton?

I've never been a fan of the Apple mouse but have you used one? The single button actually can do a right and left click

 

[kathyricks]

I still use the original iMac puck mouse because I find it comfortabe and effortless to use anywhere; e.g. on a book, table, my jeans, etc.

 

[petsounds]

I get the feeling that Steve just didn't use computers for extended periods of time. Apple definitely produced more ergonomic products when Steve wasn't around, with the Apple Adjustable Keyboard being the shining jewel of user-friendly input devices. I've never used such a comfortable keyboard before or since. By contrast, the original Mac Plus keyboard was so bad that it gave me carpal tunnel syndrome while typing papers in college. Apple has never made anything close to a fantastic mouse though, or even what I'd consider an acceptable one. Otherwise I wouldn't be using a crappy Logitech mouse right now.

Oddly, there was one two-button mouse produced under Steve's watch:

 

[anomie]

I really miss him. He had the power like no one else. He gave direction no one else dared to steer to. Now the ship is sailing but fir how long before it get overtaken by the "Apple approval process"?

You REALLY miss him? Why? Do you work at Apple or do you simply need a strong Fuhrer?

 

[hchung]

I think those ones were indeed lasers, but I think the term laser mouse was used as a generic term for all optical mice for many years even if they used LEDs

No, those ancient ones were most definitely LEDs. Laser diodes in the early 1990s cost something like $50-$100 per piece without power supply.

Oh, and I do still have one of those ancient metal mouse pads too. Just not the mouse.

As far as I remember, nobody called an optical mouse "laser mouse" until Logitech actually started shipping ones with real lasers.

UPDATE: Doing some more research, it sounds the one in that picture with the Sun station really is laser-based, but from the late 1990s. However, the optical mice from the early-1990s/late-1980s that went with my mouse pad were LED-based.

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LED is different than laser optical tracking. I, however, suspect that Farag meant that Apple was the first to ship it as a standard mouse included with the product. Microsoft's mouse was sold separately.

That's likely the case.
Microsoft and Logitech started shipping modern optical mice shortly before Apple. However all three were using the exact same sensor. (Thanks, Agilent)

 

[flottenheimer]

...If one wants a GOOD mouse or keyboard, one buys "third party". You ain't gettin' one from Apple.
...they flunk the functionality test...

While a lot of us seem to agree that Apple mice are to be avoided,
I feel that most of us agree that (current) Apple Keyboards are wonderful ... ?

 

[Nightarchaon]

Apples track Pad, supurb input device,

Apples Mice, ive always stuck them on ebay and used a Razer or Microsoft product , id rather the mouse fit my hand nicely and not give me cramps and carpel tunnel than look pretty on the desk.

sometimes, Function has to come first, at least for people who use a mac for a computer rather than just own one for reasons its "trendy" to own one.

 

[avro707]

It's obviously a matter of taste, because the magic mouse is the best mouse I've ever used. When I use my Windows PC, I miss it. The swipe-gestures on the magic mouse make web browsing and general navigation much snappier, right-click works perfectly without the keyboard, double-tap to zoom is great, and I find the magic mouse especially comfortable for long sessions of video editing etc. But, each to their own - I know someone who swears by the that little pointer-stick thing on Lenovo laptops, says he can't use a laptop which doesn't have one, and I can't stand those at all.

It's not really a matter of taste, but more than the generic Microsoft Intellimouse Optical at some super cheap price is actually a very fine working mouse, and when you use it for hours, you begin to appreciate the level of comfort it brings.

The Magic Mouse came standard with my Mac Pro (and also with my iMac at work) and both of them are put away in the draws for that reason. Those are things that must be functional and comfortable to use.

 

[krravi]

Classic example of how Steve was so wrong...

A single button mouse is so crippled its maddening to use one!

 

[GeneralChang]

So I must be imagining the fact that 'delete' is not written on any my MAc backspace keys [one of which is nearly 6 years old], it's also not on the keyboards that Apple currently sells either which are basically the same as mine. However if you go back and look at much older keyboards then delete is written on both the backspace and the [forward] delete key. Which is pretty dumb as they do two very different things and why they are now marked more accurately.

So, I’ve got (hang on, let me count) six Apple produced keyboards ranging back over about thirteen years (starting with the keyboard that came with my G4 PowerMac and ending with a four month old Retina MacBook Pro) that I can look at right here. They all have the button you claim is labelled “backspace” labelled as “delete.” And when I think about it, I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a Mac keyboard with a “backspace” key on it. So… Maybe you’re using non US keyboards? If you live outside the US, I can’t speak to how they label their international keyboards. That’s about the only thing I can think of.

And for the record, one of the keyboards (the one I’m typing on, incidentally) is from an iMac that is about a year and a half old. It’s the full size wired keyboard, and represents the most recent full sized keyboards Apple makes. And it has two key’s labelled “delete”. So this is clearly not an old thing Apple used to do. They’re doing it like, right now.

 

[Digital Skunk]

nope. you simply dont need to right-click for needed functions. keep it simple. but, if you want the shortcuts, go ahead and enable them (OS X has supported it for over a decade).

True except for:

Final Cut Pro
Motion
Soundtrack
LiveType
Shake
DVD Studio Pro
Logic Pro

where you expressly needed a two button mouse.

Or

Photoshop
InDesign
Flash MX
older versions of Premiere Pro
Quark
Avid Media Composer
Dreamweaver
Audition
ProTools

and many many more were one was required.

This is of course in reference to when Apple sold mice that didn't have a right click at all.

I've never been a fan of the Apple mouse but have you used one? The single button actually can do a right and left click

He was talking about when the Apple mouse didn't have the ability at all. The only option you had was a CTRL click or to get a new mouse.

 

[imajez]

While a lot of us seem to agree that Apple mice are to be avoided,
I feel that most of us agree that (current) Apple Keyboards are wonderful ... ?

The full sized wired one yes. The laptop/wireless ones, no.
Not to mention the stupidity of producing keyboards with different layouts which is a pain if you use a desktop and laptop interchangeably.