Former Apple Engineer Recalls Steve Jobs' Great Displeasure with Multi-Button Mouse Concepts

[r0k]

I use a Logitech V470 Bluetooth mouse on my Windows PC at the office and on my Macbook Pro at home. On my Windows PC, I get really frustrated when the thing stops working as I cannot stand to so much as TOUCH that awful trackpad Dell places below the spacebar on the Latitude E6430. On my MBP, the bluetooth mouse sits unused collecting dust to the LEFT of my MBP (and I'm right handed). I only turn it on about 2 or 3 times a year when I'm working at retouching photos or something where a mouse works better than a trackpad. When I want to right-click, I simply click the trackpad with two fingers. I also own a Mighty Mouse and a Magic mouse. They sit unused in a drawer somewhere. I pulled out the Mighty Mouse recently to see how it compared with the gestures I have access to using the trackpad. It quickly went back in the drawer.

When I owned a 2008 Macbook, I only used the trackpad sparingly and the BT mouse was the way to go for input. I valued having two buttons, especially so I could right-click on stuff without fumbling for a command or option key. I kept rechargeable batteries in the thing and I'd have to swap them 3 or 4 times a year. I think it's been a year and a half since I've swapped batteries since getting my MBP.

 

[imajez]

So, I’ve got (hang on, let me count) six Apple produced keyboards ranging back over about thirteen years (starting with the keyboard that came with my G4 PowerMac and ending with a four month old Retina MacBook Pro) that I can look at right here. They all have the button you claim is labelled “backspace” labelled as “delete.” And when I think about it, I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a Mac keyboard with a “backspace” key on it. So… Maybe you’re using non US keyboards? If you live outside the US, I can’t speak to how they label their international keyboards. That’s about the only thing I can think of.

Most of the world lives outside the US! And yes it's a non-US keyboard. And the key is not labelled backspace [that's just the accurate name, delete is not] it has a back arrow on it, just like the Enter/Return key has a right angle arrow on it, not text.
Just looked at US keyboards, seems you're not even trusted with remembering what the shift key is, as they all seem to be spelled out for you. Messy!
UK

US

And for the record, one of the keyboards (the one I’m typing on, incidentally) is from an iMac that is about a year and a half old. It’s the full size wired keyboard, and represents the most recent full sized keyboards Apple makes. And it has two key’s labelled “delete”. So this is clearly not an old thing Apple used to do. They’re doing it like, right now.

So they are still labelling them in a cack handed way then for US folks then?
Looks like you are still using the old term 'Opt' rather than moving completely to the more common 'Alt' as well.

 

[melendezest]

"I am a marketing team of ONE"-Steve Jobs

Hahahaha, awesome. The man seems to have been pig-headed, but damn if he didn't nail it most of the time.

That said, the Magic Trackpad is the single best input device I've ever used (opinion, of course).

Their mice? No, thanks. Too flat, causing cramps when used for extended periods. My kids cannot stand the Magic Mouse either (nor the M. Trackpad), and are always stealing my (work-issued) Microsoft mouse to use with the home iMac.

That said, a mouse can't be beat when you want precision. So the combination of the Magic Trackpad and Microsoft (or Logitech) multi-button mouse is my favorite setup.

 

[jonnysods]

I love my Magic Mouse. I maybe wish that the click sound was a little quieter, but it's the best ergonomic mouse I have ever used.

 

[octothorpe8]

So I must be imagining the fact that 'delete' is not written on any my MAc backspace keys [one of which is nearly 6 years old], it's also not on the keyboards that Apple currently sells either which are basically the same as mine.

Does the upper right key on this keyboard not say "delete"? Is that not what you're talking about?

https://www.apple.com/keyboard/images/top_view.jpg

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So they are still labelling them in a cack handed way then for US folks then?
Looks like you are still using the old term 'Opt' rather than moving completely to the more common 'Alt' as well.

Ohhh, I get it now. You're very clever and also totally wrong about anybody besides you giving a ### about that forward delete key.

 

[GeneralChang]

Most of the world lives outside the US! And yes it's a non-US keyboard. And the key is not labelled backspace [that's just the accurate name, delete is not] it has a back arrow on it, just like the Enter/Return key has a right angle arrow on it, not text.

So they are still labelling them in a cack handed way then for US folks then?
Looks like you are still using the old term 'Opt' rather than moving completely to the more common 'Alt' as well.

Yeah, most of the world lives outside of the US, but most of Apples keyboards do not.

And um… Well, it's funny. And maybe a tad ironic. We used to have keyboards that looked an awful lot like yours. By today’s standard, in the US, that looks really rather old-school. Go figure. Apparently tech companies just swapped our old keyboards for your old keyboards and called them new keyboards. At least, I haven’t seen those symbols or that treatment of the return key in like, a decade. Weird.

Anyways, it’s not like it matters. Calling that key the “delete” key makes perfect sense to me, and Ctrl. Alt. Del. on a Windows 7 laptop is honestly the last time I used the other one, so it doesn’t come up that much in my normal use cases. I’m glad you like your keyboard better. I’ll keep mine.

 

[bretm]

Wow that black pro mouse is beautiful. I want one now lol

Geez I must be old. I have them sitting around like pieces of junk. They're not black btw. They're clear.

 

[bretm]

Most of the world lives outside the US! And yes it's a non-US keyboard. And the key is not labelled backspace [that's just the accurate name, delete is not] it has a back arrow on it, just like the Enter/Return key has a right angle arrow on it, not text.
Just looked at US keyboards, seems you're not even trusted with remembering what the shift key is, as they all seem to be spelled out for you. Messy!
UK
Image
US
Image

So they are still labelling them in a cack handed way then for US folks then?
Looks like you are still using the old term 'Opt' rather than moving completely to the more common 'Alt' as well.

I think the reason UK keyboards are the way they are is because Apple doesn't want to make a zillion different keyboards for a smaller market. They just put icons instead of words where different countries have different words. Less keys to make. Not sure why they still have the forward delete key.

And if delete is the wrong term, why is that what it does? It deletes! Highlight something and press that key. It doesn't copy. It doesn't go back a space. It deletes. Backspace is a silly term carried over from typewriters. Even PCs use the "delete" phrase for the newer forward delete key. That's also why Apple still uses option. ALT was always a key on windows keyboards. Apple keyboards always had a Option key. When software started being multi-platform they started putting ALT in the corner so software manufacturers didn't have to completely rewrite the manuals. FWIW the command key used to be called the Apple key because it had an apple on it as well as the bizarre symbol.

 

[Truffy]

There is a significant difference: on OS X, you don't have to. You are absolutely not forced to use the second button. It is an Apple UI guideline that no commands should be in the contextual menu that are not available somewhere else.

But contextual menus are convenient! This may not be the Apple way, but it is human nature.

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And the key is not labelled backspace [that's just the accurate name, delete is not] it has a back arrow on it, just like the Enter/Return key has a right angle arrow on it, not text.

Semantics. There are two delete keys, it's just that the 'delete' key deletes forwards while the 'backspace' deletes backwards.

 

[jettredmont]

Both windows and OSX use the right mouse button click to bring up a contextual menu. Its silly to only have a one button mouse which forces the second button to the keyboard only.

The genius of one mouse button through most of the OS X gestation cycle is not that it stops you from bringing up contextual menus. I worked at a division of Apple for over five years; we all used non-Apple mice instead of ctrl-click. That changed with the Mighty Mouse (by the time Magic Mouse came out we were no longer a division of Apple).

What shipping with only single-button mice meant, though, was that no developer could use context menus as a crutch. If you had to do something, you needed to provide some kind of interface for it, not hidden behind special-clicking something on the screen. This seems simple and like shipping "defective" mice would be overkill, but looking at the Windows apps I use where you simply can not function without relying on context menus (and shift-click and ctrl-click and shift-ctrl-click, and ****-right-click, and ...) and it is clear that the fact that a good number of users (not power users, but a good number of paying customers nonetheless) would only have a single mouse button kept the whole ecosystem from a long slide into insanity.

 

[jettredmont]

No that the 'backspace' key. The key labelled 'delete' is not found on laptops/wireless keyboards.
Think of them as forward delete and back delete.

Most "normal" people don't ever use the forward-delete key. It can be useful at times, but it isn't something most people use on keyboards which offer it (and if you are addicted to the key then there are plenty of alternate keyboards you can plug in).

Also despite what people teaching how to use software keep wittering on about, there is no 'Option' key on the Mac. It's been called the 'alt' key for years now. I'm typing this on a six year old KB which has no 'option' key to be seen.

I don't have any brand-new keyboards to compare to, but surrounding me I have a keyboard which I believe came with a PowerMac G5 (might be slightly more recent, but I think that was it), another which was around ~2010 wired USB, and another on my MacBook Pro from 2009.

They all have a key with "alt" on the top and "option" on the bottom. This was before the Great-Swiss-Cross-Symbol-Purge, as they also all have a key labeled both by that symbol and by "Command".

So, "alt" and "option" were both in use as late as 2010, which would be four years back from now. "alt" was a safe term for the most part, as I remember it, since 2004 or 2005 hardware, though, so yes documentation should be using that term by now.

It wouldn't be so bad if the Mac keyboard USB socket faced backwards. As it is now, the cable gets in the way of the mouse itself, unless trained otherwise.

I've never had problems with my mouse cord. It is plugged into the keyboard, has a little loop on the table, then comes down to where my mouse is. As I recall, that loop was born from the loop the mouse cord had in its box; I don't think I ever "trained" it to that shape.

I suppose it is likely a matter of personal preference, though. Some people like moving their arms about in grand sweeping gestures to move the mouse from one corner to the other of the desktop, while I prefer needing much less movement. But for me, the cord has plenty of length (and longer cords from non-Apple mice tend to get in the way on the desk). For me personally, again, this is a selling point for using Apple mice over third-party mice. Of course, these days I go without cords entirely at home and couldn't be happier, but the short cords keep things nice and tidy here at work.

 

[dilbert99]

Windows apps I use where you simply can not function without relying on context menus

I don't have that issue, I can use keyboard shortcuts or use the main menu. Anything that I can do in a context menu I can usually do in the main menu.

Its the same situation for OSX. Windows gives you a choice of keyboard shortcut for most options, OSX gives you less keyboard shortcuts out of the box.

Whats wrong with giving people options? Its quicker to use a keyboard shortcut, then contextual menu, then main menu. One thing I miss about Windows is that its easier to activate the menu using the keyboard, I don't know if thats possible in OSX.

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Whether you agree or not, that's why it is the way it is. Which is not the same as Windows. Secondary-clicking is an option for Mac (among several). It's required on Windows.

I'd have to disagree with that, I am forced to use the mouse more in OSX compared to Windows.

I can being up the edit menu easily in Windows but its a pain in OSX.

 

[PracticalMac]

The first thing I do when I un-box a Mac is TOSS THE STUPID MICE.

I really try to use them, but they are simply not as easy to use as others, especially Logitech, but even Microsoft mouse is wonderful.

The current Magic Mouse has awesome potential, but I cant get the gestures right 10% of time.

 

[Timelordprime]

I really hated the "Hockey Puck" mouse

When I was working at a Toronto VAR in the late 1990s, nothing that any of the sales team or the service team hated more than the "Hockey Puck" mouse. The upside for the sales team, it meant that almost every iMac we sold, was sold with an aftermarket third party mouse, usually from Logictech. I only realized recently, that the inventor of the mouse, Douglas Engelbart, was employed at Logictech: sort of an artist-in-residence or more accurately, engineer-in-residence.

The Pro Mouse was fine, and our aftermarket mice sales plummeted when it came out. I now use the Magic Trackpad, which is by far, the best input device that Apple's created for a desktop or laptop.

 

[Flynnstone]

LED-based optical mice have been around a very long time. Originally they used special mouse pads with grids.

Microsoft (with some help from HP) introduced a pad-less, ball-less optical mouse in 1999. And they may not have been the first either, but they were a bit ahead of Apple, to their credit.

I don't think Farag's memory is accurate on this point.

I think Sun had a LED mouse even before. Late 80s or early 90s. It need a special plate to work on though.

 

[CPx]

Apple and mice... what a sordid affair. So much fail.

The trackpads are great but I do wish they had a discrete button to make dragging things easier.

And I also wish the keyboards had a forward delete key. I use it all the time on Windows.

 

[Swordylove]

Download BetterTouchTool for more gestures. Using Magic Mouse, I can:

open itunes, open safari, open dashboard, start expose, open mail, start genius shuffle on iTunes, open new tabs (on safari and finder), close tabs, refresh tabs, do middle click, open any third party app, change spaces, go to next music track, open notification centre, quit apps, close windows etc. all using swipes or taps. These are my own preferences, but you can choose your own.

I'd have a really hard time going back to a trackpad.

Hey thanks for the recommendation! Had no idea this could be done by a 3rd-party software.

 

[vkd]

LED-based optical mice have been around a very long time. Originally they used special mouse pads with grids.

Microsoft (with some help from HP) introduced a pad-less, ball-less optical mouse in 1999. And they may not have been the first either, but they were a bit ahead of Apple, to their credit.

I don't think Farag's memory is accurate on this point.

Definitely inaccurate. I can vouch with 100% certainty that in 1991 I was using optical mice in the Sun-suite at Salford Tech, when I was learning programming whilst on the Engineering Management course there. Yes, that was on Sun computers, running Sun's Open Windows, another beautiful Unix GUI OS that completely blew my mind at the time. When I received a copy of MS Windows 3.1 shortly afterwards it was laughable. No change there, 23 years on...

 

[barkmonster]

I've been using a Microsoft Basic Optical mouse since I got that stupid one button form-before-function thing with a Quicksilver G4. I've not tried any of the new Apple mice because it does what I need it to.

 

[flottenheimer]

The full sized wired one yes. The laptop/wireless ones, no.
Not to mention the stupidity of producing keyboards with different layouts which is a pain if you use a desktop and laptop interchangeably.

So, your reason for not liking Apple's laptop/wireless keyboards rests on the lack of a numeric keyboard?

 

[imajez]

So, your reason for not liking Apple's laptop/wiSeless keyboards rests on the lack of a numeric keyboard?

seeing as I don't even use the numeric keys, it's a bit daft to assume that would be my reason. In fact, it's because the basic layout has been shifted around, which messes up muscle memory. Pointless and stupid. Plus the removal of (forward) delete/page up&down keys which means clunky two handed workarounds.

 

[ArcaneDevice]

The best Apple mouse ever:

Image

Runner up:

Image

The others are a just various degrees of bad. I never used any Apple mouse since the Hockey puck was introduced.

I would swap those around. The square edged mouse was not very ergonomic.

Note I would only consider the rounded mouse the best as long as it was the first incarnation. For later Macs they started using lighter and cheaper plastics and the switch was cheap. Not at all like the clickier mechanicals of the original. They did the same thing with the keyboards too.

 

[Atlantico]

I would swap those around. The square edged mouse was not very ergonomic.

Note I would only consider the rounded mouse the best as long as it was the first incarnation. For later Macs they started using lighter and cheaper plastics and the switch was cheap. Not at all like the clickier mechanicals of the original. They did the same thing with the keyboards too.

Yeah the originals were best, the Apple ADB keyboard II was perhaps the finest keyboard this world has ever seen. Those sweet sweet ALP mechanical switches... I use a Cherry MX brown keyboard now, it is similar, but damn I miss the old ADB II.

 

[SiriusExcelsior]

The magic mouse looks cool but not very comfortable for doing a lot of photoshop, video editing etc.

I don't do video editing, but I greatly enjoy being able to scroll in whichever direction I wanted in Photoshop, without needing to keep one hand on the spacebar (or to scroll while typing text). I've also used a tilt-scroll mice before (Logitech V470), and the Magic Mouse is still worlds away easier to use. Lack of middle-click is the only drawback, really.

The transparent-grey Pro mouse felt better on the hand though; the Magic Mouse's edges cut into the hand after a while.

A sidenote, the relatively complex Magic Mouse is quite painful to use under Windows 7 (albeit on a netbook), even with Apple's drivers; the cursor and scrolling is somewhat jerky, horizontal scroll doesn't work, and clicking will often cause the cursor to move, so you miss whatever you were trying to click . Some credit on the mousing front also needs to be given to how much "modern" OS X feels (no native horizontal scroll support in Win7? Really?)

 

[MattInOz]

When I was working at a Toronto VAR in the late 1990s, nothing that any of the sales team or the service team hated more than the "Hockey Puck" mouse. The upside for the sales team, it meant that almost every iMac we sold, was sold with an aftermarket third party mouse, usually from Logictech. I only realized recently, that the inventor of the mouse, Douglas Engelbart, was employed at Logictech: sort of an artist-in-residence or more accurately, engineer-in-residence.

The Pro Mouse was fine, and our aftermarket mice sales plummeted when it came out. I now use the Magic Trackpad, which is by far, the best input device that Apple's created for a desktop or laptop.

I really loved the puck mouse.
It was with the puck mouse I re-learned to use a mouse not by smothering it but lightly and thrown around by the fingers. Screen spanning movement from the elbow, fine movement fingers.

I wish Apple or someone would do a new puck mouse. Take the magic mouse cut it in half take the heavy pair of AA's out of it.

That would be the best of mouse and trackpad in one.