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Former Apple Executives Address Working Conditions in Suppliers' Factories

If someone isn't happy with the way a corporation does business, they can:

- Stop buying that company's products, or

- Request their government hold that company accountable for their business practices.

You know that saying, "Nice guys finish last?" Businesses are run by *******s because the *******s in them worked very hard at being *******s so that one day they could be the ******* CEO.

Guess what... *******s don't regulate themselves. 😉
 
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Mr Fusion said:
If someone isn't happy with the way a corporation does business, they can:

- Stop buying that company's products, or

- Request their government hold that company accountable for their business practices.

You know that saying, "Nice guys finish last?" Businesses are run by *******s because the *******s in them worked very hard at being *******s so that one day they could be the ******* CEO.

Guess what... *******s don't regulate themselves. 😉
Click to expand...

So we need to hire sphincters...
 
The "human factor"

"The company finds itself struggling to deal with the human factor that has become increasingly visible..."

What a horrible euphemism. The "human factor." Please. Call it what it is: extremes of worker abuse and cruelty leading to absolutely preventable explosions, and a rash of suicides.

Anybody who read that entire article will think of Dickens's Industrial Revolution England, not of Steve Jobs's glib idealism and 21st-century tech-enabled fairytales.

If Apple can completely transform five major industries and sit on $80+ billion in CASH while having an unprecedentedly blockbuster quarter, they sure as hell can transform the ethics of their supply chain. Hell, they can transform the US economy by doing the right thing, and starting to build factories again in the U.S.

And/or use their leverage to REALLY make a difference in China, since clearly Foxconn and the other suppliers there have the government in their pocket.

And I don't want to hear about how ALL tech companies "have to do this." That is just BS. Apple reserves for itself every exception it chooses to. If Foxconn or any other supplier were screwing up a single tiny part on a single tiny device, Apple would be all over them to fix it... yesterday. If they wanted to do this, REALLY do this right, they would be doing it... rather than hiring some PR people and conflict-of-interested outside firms to try to make the scrutiny go away.

Apple is responsible, through incredibly aggressive price controls and obsession with secrecy, for forcing their suppliers to force their workers to produce ever more and ever more quickly, safety and health and basic human consideration be damned.

Al Gore: where are you when we need you? As an Apple director, you are fiduciarily - and morally - responsible.
 
gnasher729 said:
So all you can do is use ad hominem attacks. Not really an argument, is it?

It's really easy: If someone is a "former Apple executive" then they don't know what's going on at Apple now, except for possibly hearsay, and if there was anything done wrong while that person was an executive, why the **** didn't they speak up then?
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What? I'm talking about the terrible conditions at Foxconn reported by 100's of news stations around the world. I could care less what I former executive says - it's irrelevant.

Tony
 
DTphonehome said:
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Ultimately, Apple can't afford it. They have dozens of competitors looking to undercut them at every turn, and what you are proposing would raise the price of Apple products to uncompetitive levels.
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And that kind of thinking is part of the problem. Usually, the right thing to do is also the hardest.
 
rockland said:
The company finds itself struggling to deal with the human factor that has become increasingly visible...

What a horrible euphemism. The "human factor." Please. Call it what it is: extremes of worker abuse and cruelty leading to absolutely preventable explosions, and a rash of suicides.

Anybody who read that entire article will think of Dickens's Industrial Revolution England, not of Steve Jobs's glib idealism and 21st-century tech-enabled fairytales.

If Apple can completely transform five major industries and sit on $80+ billion in CASH while having an unprecedentedly blockbuster quarter, they sure as hell can transform the ethics of their supply chain. Hell, they can transform the US economy by doing the right thing, and starting to build factories again in the U.S.

And/or use their leverage to REALLY make a difference in China, since clearly Foxconn and the other suppliers there have the government in their pocket.

And I don't want to hear about how ALL tech companies "have to do this." That is just BS. Apple reserves for itself every exception it chooses to. If Foxconn or any other supplier were screwing up a single tiny part on a single tiny device, Apple would be all over them to fix it... yesterday. If they wanted to do this, REALLY do this right, they would be doing it... rather than hiring some PR people and conflict-of-interested outside firms to try to make the scrutiny go away.

Apple is responsible, through incredibly aggressive price controls and obsession with secrecy, for forcing their suppliers to force their workers to produce ever more and ever more quickly, safety and health and basic human consideration be damned.

Al Gore: where are you when we need you? As an Apple director, you are fiduciarily responsible.
Click to expand...

Bravo sir. Well said. 🙂

Tony
 
Yes apple could do something about it! The factory in question is solely dedicated to apple(if I am reading the article correctly), so personally I feel they should flex their muscle and change it.

Like the article says, they would flex their muscle if that factory produced 10 million defective iPhones. Why not to change the conditions? Or hell just move operations to the USA.

"Think Differently"
 
Move to America

Why not build a facility to produce Apple products here in America, then give the FoxConn workers first dibs to move to that city and placed in jobs there. The city here should be one where cost of living is very minimal, and one that is struggling for jobs. City locals looking for work can also fill in the jobs that are left over. Just an idea......

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
 
"If we meant business, core violations would disappear.”

Damn right they would...when companies say otherwise theyre being apathetic.
 
I’ll want to see hard evidence that the four-year habit mentioned has changed (if true—and I have no problem believing it). The mechanisms are in place where it could change... now, has it? That’s what we will need to see. For Apple, and for all the others who get less publicity as well.

I’d like to see two labels of electronics from every maker, and two lines of chocolate/coffee, and clothes, and household items, etc. etc.; you could pay more for the badge on the package that says “Low slavery!” (speaking of chocolate for instance) or “20% fewer child laborers!” Two identical products from the same company, and now you get to choose. The company of course should match your extra outlay with their own! Nobody would do this, but I’d like to see the statement made...
 
theheadguy said:
I despise when people say such ridiculous things. Sometimes you can only speak freely and openly once you have left, especially after your NDA expires.

Now, on to something that won't be popular here. There will be plenty of posts that say this is a worldwide problem, not just an Apple problem-- and they'd be right. However, news like this sheds light on corporate responsibility being more of a marketing term than a way of doing business. As a company currently sitting with $97.6 BILLION dollars in CASH ON HAND, they should dramatically improve the working conditions and lives of people who make their products, not have an attitude of "well everyone else does it." While their position is popular on this forum, it's not right. Life is not all about money, it's about the health and well being of yourself, your family, and hopefully (if even to a lesser extent), your fellow man. I would pay more money for an iPod or Mac if they had decent wages and living conditions that didn't encourage worker suicides. Spare me the "I don't have more money to shell out." If you are really that bad off, then quit wasting your money on consumer electronics that you can't afford.
Click to expand...

For one of the first times in my life, I feel as though everything I wanted to say has already been said in a way I would say it.

----------
toddybody said:
Damn right they would...when companies say otherwise theyre being apathetic.
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No; when they say otherwise, they're lying because they *do* care-- about their bottom line.
 
Mr Fusion said:
If someone isn't happy with the way a corporation does business, they can:

- Stop buying that company's products, or

- Request their government hold that company accountable for their business practices.

You know that saying, "Nice guys finish last?" Businesses are run by *******s because the *******s in them worked very hard at being *******s so that one day they could be the ******* CEO.

Guess what... *******s don't regulate themselves. 😉

This is just one of many reasons why having a democratically elected government is a good thing! Too bad no one realizes it... 🙄
Click to expand...

Businesses tend to be nicer if doing so is both wanted by their consumers and economically viable. Regulating businesses to death doesn't generally help them spend more on "Human Rights". Realize that most people in our government are not businessmen, nor have much of a clue as to how to run a successful business; Not the kind of people I want regulating businesses... It's actually pretty amazing how many of the world's problems these days were initially caused by some sort of government regulation. These people have no reason to know what they're doing with half of the regulation they dish out, so they tend to not.
 
globalist said:
Are you saying none of the other major customers of Foxconn have either the power or the money to do something about it?
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So its ok if everyone else does it that it is ok?

And of that list the most powerful company on that list. The other companies that have money have little power to do anything. Microsoft for example may have money but they do not manufacture as much as Apple. This limits what they could do in terms of pulling contracts and forcing changes.

Apple on the hand they manufacture a lot of stuff and they have the most power to do anything and they are choosing to nothing.
 
Tones2 said:
What? I'm talking about the terrible conditions at Foxconn reported by 100's of news stations around the world. I could care less what I former executive says - it's irrelevant.
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Read the thread title.

Then read Apple's "Supplier Responsibility Report", link at the front page at www.apple.com. Then compare what you read there, with what it is made to sound like in the Times article. A classic example was a report that claimed "most complaints by Chinese workers were about overtime", which had been modified from "most complaints by Chinese workers were that there wasn't always enough overtime". This time, the times article claims "workers worked more than sixty hours a week". Well, actually, they worked "more than sixty hours a week in at least one of the last thirteen weeks". Some of the posters here might fall into that category as well. Many who are self employed do. Most people in the US computer games industry do.

As the article says: "Lots of bad things happened, like this, this, this and that". Sounds awful. But it is 150 factories. With tons of employers. Pick 150 companies of similar size in the USA, and you will easily find the same list.

PeterQVenkman said:
Not so curiously. You missed a part:
Click to expand...

said one former Apple executive who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because of confidentiality agreements.
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First, why does it have to be so difficult to quote quotes...

So we have former executives who are in violation of confidentiality agreements? You mean Apple could take them to court if their names were known? So if this is all true, then these former executives are first cowards who didn't speak up when they were in a position to do something, and now they are either in violation of confidentiality agreements, or they are spreading manure and hiding behind such an agreement?
 
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Rodimus Prime said:
So its ok if everyone else does it that it is ok?

And of that list the most powerful company on that list. The other companies that have money have little power to do anything. Microsoft for example may have money but they do not manufacture as much as Apple. This limits what they could do in terms of pulling contracts and forcing changes.

Apple on the hand they manufacture a lot of stuff and they have the most power to do anything and they are choosing to nothing.
Click to expand...

I thought the article was specifically talking about apples foxconn factory. I thought, If I read it correctly, that other vendors use other factories for production?

If this is the case, isn't this solely apples problem to solve?
 
Rodimus Prime said:
Differences is Apple has both the money and power to do something about it and they are choosing not to. Instead they demand more profit to paid the bottom line.
Click to expand...

You can say the same thing about HP, Dell, IBM, Lenovo, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Acer, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Cisco, Intel, Motorola, Panasonic, Phillips, Sharp and Toshiba. OK, maybe not Motorola. 😉
 
Whitewash in process by Macrumors:

Apple is far from the only company experiencing such tensions, but has been receiving the most publicity due to the popularity of its products and its booming financial results.
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The article details other companies who are not as exploitative in their relations with Asian suppliers. It establishes Apple's search of profit margin above all else (in their supplier relationships) as one of the key reasons why suppliers have to cut corners: its one of the few methods they can use to increase their own extremely thin profit margin. It goes over how Apple actually doesn't really do much to enforce proper standards, and do not give their suppliers the economic means to do so, while other companies choose good over evil, and understand that there's a relationship between the economic margins suppliers are working under, and the amount they can put aside on improving labour conditions.

It also provides a rationale for why consumers don't give a ****. It was always easy to boycott Nike because you could just pick up an Adidas instead. While today's consumers might be for labour relations in principle, they are not going to give up their shiny new iPad or iPhone to improve the lives of millions in China. Siri over preventing deaths in China? Siri wins.

But I guess it's easier to trump the age-old Apple-is-a-victim card than actually reading the article and comment on its content.
 
That NYT article makes me want to barf. I'm not rationalizing the human harm that happens in Foxconns's factories. Or other factories in China that make computers,tablets and smartphones but to single out Apple is just plain sick.

That article had about 2000 words in it ( approx. ) and only 3 words had HP or Lenova or Dell in it. They were mentioned incidentally.

To single out Apple is plain bad journalism. They didn't even provide an email link for the person responsible for the article.

It is the WHOLE computer industry's responsibility to make sure these things don't happen not just Apple's.
Because Apple has a lot of cash on hand they are the one at fault. They aren't .

Apple can lead an effort to bring these manufacturing processes back to the United States and they can do it successfully only if the other computer companies decide to join them in this effort. Until that happens Apple's success will have to carry the burden of bad press for the other computer companies while they sit on their hands and enjoy the slanted trashy press the NYT put out.
 
Where's the attention on Apple's competitors? Have they solved this problem or something?

Surely it would be nice to see for comparison sake.
 
Sour grapes. I love ten miles from a Talley Industries plant that makes car airbags. They had more explosions in a given week than these two contracts have had, combined, ever! We also had a Blue Circle cement plant in my state that regularly ground up workers. Where was the fake outrage then?
 
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So Apple is portrayed as the bad guy for hiring foreign sweatshop Foxconn workers. Okay. So... If Apple moved their production back to the US, and put those people out of their (admittedly ******) jobs, would that improve the status of the workers? Are crap wages and harsh conditions worse than no job at all?

Five bucks says that, were that to happen, Apple would catch flak for "further impoverishing foreign workers". Not saying I like the Foxconn situation, but it's hard to get an "Attaboy" from the press no matter what you do.
 
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