Well, actual footage of people living 10 to a small room sometime in cages in a corporate facility seems pretty cut and dry to me. Instead of me toning down my rhetoric, maybe take off your blinders.
Tony
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Former Apple Executives Address Working Conditions in Suppliers' Factories
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Well, actual footage of people living 10 to a small room sometime in cages in a corporate facility seems pretty cut and dry to me. Instead of me toning down my rhetoric, maybe take off your blinders.
Tony
Well said, samcraig.
As someone else pointed out, this isn't about Apple pulling out of China. It's only about their living up to their commitment to monitor the rules they have themselves put up as a condition for being an Apple supplier. They are looking the other way -- something that they would NEVER do if it were a faulty part -- simply because they clearly don't care (enough) about it.
And as I mentioned above, it's also the basic decent thing to do when not one but TWO factories explode due to aluminum dust -- something that could have been solved with more ventilation.
Ultimately this company whose products and innovation we all adore is unfortunately putting extracting every last possible nanopenny of profit out of their suppliers ahead of the lives (NOT the incomes) of the people who manufacture those shiny devices.
And I say that sucks. You don't have to be an economist to say that the valuation of a brand is more than its quarterly stock price or profit. That intangible value is not called Good Will for no reason.
No one has to pull out of China LTD. You're missing the big picture. Apple has the power and financial means to impose changes. They already audit their factories. The problem (if you read the article - which it is still clear you didn't) is that Apple has checks and balances in place but ARE NOT ENFORCING THEM as much as they could.
They don't need to pull out of China or ditch Foxconn. They need to make good on their promise that they advertise on their website. Saying you're socially responsible isn't good enough. Actions speak louder than words.
Of course it's possible. Only to someone like LTD and a few others does this seem like an impossible task.
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Yes, I do give up meat and dairy EXACTLY for that reason. I'm vegan.
And even with that said, even though animal abuse is terrible, abuse to human is much worse.Tony
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I think Apple (and honestly any company) should align themselves in a matter similar to how diamonds are bought and sold. I can't think of anyone that would purposely choose a non conflict-free diamond. And I hope it doesn't take what's happened in that industry to happen to the tech industry.
Its an ethical choice to me, one that apple being as powerful as they are could lead.
I am not necessarily saying apple should pull out immediately, but they need to put their foot down period. This report is about apple mainly, so we must look to apple to say "What is your response to this?"
The reactions I am seeing in this thread are somewhat shocking, the "oh well" attitude is not going to change anything.
No. But since they have this big splashy website - http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/ - it perhaps IS their responsibility to "govern" their suppliers and not turn a blind eye. And maybe I'm simplifying. I am sure Apple is doing "something." The question is - are they doing enough?
I don't care is a 13 year old works 12 hours a day six days a week as long as I get a new shinny apple product.
I don't care if 1,000 foxconn workers kill them selves as long as I get a new shinny apple product.
I don't care if 10,000 foxxconn workers are maimed, injured or even decapitated as long as I get a new shinny apple product.
I also think that Apple should lower their wages in order to create even more profit.
I don't care if 1,000 foxconn workers kill them selves as long as I get a new shinny apple product.
I don't care if 10,000 foxxconn workers are maimed, injured or even decapitated as long as I get a new shinny apple product.
I also think that Apple should lower their wages in order to create even more profit.
And are all the other major customers of Foxconn doing anything at all?
If you look at it from this perspective, Apple at least has a formal announcement plastered at http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/. What have the other big customers done in regards to the "Foxconn situation"? Who knows. I wouldn't, seeing as the media is too busy singling out Apple and chasing views instead of doing any meaningful investigation into the big picture.
So tell me, all you practitioners of tech and global business Realpolitik...
How did we get from "Here's to the crazy ones... the misfits... the rebels... the ones who see things differently"... to the kinds of cruelty and human abuses we see so lovingly detailed in this and other articles?
When did Apple start Thinking Ruthless?
Isn't there -- CAN'T there be -- some kind of meeting point between a corporate culture of idealism, a pipeline of amazing products, and a massively profitable company that inspires all?
Or am I just one of the "crazy ones"...?
How did we get from "Here's to the crazy ones... the misfits... the rebels... the ones who see things differently"... to the kinds of cruelty and human abuses we see so lovingly detailed in this and other articles?
When did Apple start Thinking Ruthless?
Isn't there -- CAN'T there be -- some kind of meeting point between a corporate culture of idealism, a pipeline of amazing products, and a massively profitable company that inspires all?
Or am I just one of the "crazy ones"...?
Isnt this article about apple? Doesn't apple lead, not follow(general theme around here)?
Why does what amazon "doesn't do" affect what apple does?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjgtLSHhTPg
I'm sure Gandhi and MLK would be totally down with what the company that used them as a mascot is turning a blind eye to now.
Apple has always been ruthless. Look at the way Mr. Jobs treated some of his co-workers and collaborators. Ruthlessness has always been part of Apple's culture. Their 1984 ad was just a way of aggressively differentiating themselves from IBM.
Until there is a broader social movement that demands accountability from companies that manufacture products overseas, the status quo will remain. It would also be foolish to protest against Apple itself - many other companies are also guilty of the propagating the same abusive working conditions in the name of providing cheap goods to us.
But, given Apple's prestige and leverage, it is the best-positioned company to demand greater accountability from the likes of Foxconn and other Taiwanese companies that operate factories in China. Unfortunately, pursuit of higher margins will stymie that goal, unless we consumers push Apple in that direction.
The NYT piece, while biased, is a great eye opener. We are all guilty of perpetuating this system of abuse. Let's end it. Let's march out to our local Apple store tomorrow and demand that Apple enforce their Code of Conduct more stringently with its suppliers.
Until there is a broader social movement that demands accountability from companies that manufacture products overseas, the status quo will remain. It would also be foolish to protest against Apple itself - many other companies are also guilty of the propagating the same abusive working conditions in the name of providing cheap goods to us.
But, given Apple's prestige and leverage, it is the best-positioned company to demand greater accountability from the likes of Foxconn and other Taiwanese companies that operate factories in China. Unfortunately, pursuit of higher margins will stymie that goal, unless we consumers push Apple in that direction.
The NYT piece, while biased, is a great eye opener. We are all guilty of perpetuating this system of abuse. Let's end it. Let's march out to our local Apple store tomorrow and demand that Apple enforce their Code of Conduct more stringently with its suppliers.
Did you read the article. The WHOLE article? I'm guessing not. Because other companies pay more to factories in china AND stipulate that X goes to working conditions.
Further - your comment doesn't help Apple's cause. They have a big splashy website touting how responsible they are. You know what - that makes it even MORE important for them take action because they've outlined and spend resources on auditing practices. They are doing some things. I will give them that. But they are still turning a blind eye enough so that their auditing indicates only a 74 percent compliance. That means there are some factories which are great and others which are BELOW this.
What other companies are or are not doing is irrelevant. Two wrongs don't make a right. That's something they teach even in pre-school. Apple is a LEADER. They should be LEADING.
Exactly.
Why are all the fanboys here pursuing this argument? In the argument of what Apple SHOULD do, what does it MATTER what other companies are doing? The discussion is what's right for Apple to do.
If the article was about Samsung, the same people here who are defending Apple would be saying how terrible Samsung was. And they'd be right. But it's goes the other way to. Jeez....
Tony
Very well said!
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Most people here wouldn't know whether or not it was about Samsung after the first paragraph or two anyway because they stopped reading. Whether they just couldn't deal with Apple being shown in a negative light, ADD, or whatever - it's obvious that many of the people commenting haven't actually read the entire article.
This article and series from the NYT/MSNBC is just trying to win a Pulitzer. They also want to single out Apple because of their success instead of singling out Google, Amazon, Dell, Microsoft, Sony, Samsung, etc...you get the idea.
The data/sources in it are from so long ago that they really need to go over and redo the story and see how conditions are now.
They also titled it
In China, Human Costs Are Built Into an iPad
instead of
In China, Human Costs Are Built Into Every %^$%& Electronic Gadget You Own.
Many Chinese replied to the article and many say that it if wasnt for Apple, there would be way more poor people in China and living conditions would be brutal and Apple has actually improved the lives of those that work at the plants that make Apple devices because Apple can enforce change with threat of pulling business.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/25/chinese-readers-on-the-ieconomy/
The data/sources in it are from so long ago that they really need to go over and redo the story and see how conditions are now.
They also titled it
In China, Human Costs Are Built Into an iPad
instead of
In China, Human Costs Are Built Into Every %^$%& Electronic Gadget You Own.
Many Chinese replied to the article and many say that it if wasnt for Apple, there would be way more poor people in China and living conditions would be brutal and Apple has actually improved the lives of those that work at the plants that make Apple devices because Apple can enforce change with threat of pulling business.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/25/chinese-readers-on-the-ieconomy/
Yes, it makes apple an easy target. Doesn't mean it's right. Nothing is stopping those other companies from doing anything on their own or working together. If you haven't noticed, it's pretty much all other tech companies v. apple and they would take any chance they can to go against apple on something they can possibly win.
Source?
And I love how people state that they are just doing this to win a Pulitzer. That's like the people who say Apple should just buy any company that gets in their way since they have so much cash. Both comments are ludicrous.
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Of course it makes it right. If Apple is guilty of not acting on their OWN standards that they publish on their website - it makes it perfectly alright for someone - anyone to call them on it.
People can stand in line for days to get an apple product, see if they would do the same to demand that those apple products they know and love aren't built in unsafe conditions.
Okay, where? With who? Cite the company that can give them the volume, personnel, and manufacturing flexibility they want at a price that is competitive. You can bet your behind it won't be an old Whirlpool plant in the USA. And why SHOULD everyone have to pay $65 more just because YOU feel bad about conditions in another country?
Read the article..they talk about 2006, 2007 and 2008 incidents and yet don't bring up anything more recent, especially after Apple has addressed those incidents.
As the one chinese reader replied..it's not Apple. It's everyone and the country itself...so stop blaming Apple.
If people saw what kind of life workers lived before they found a job at Foxconn, they would come to an opposite conclusion of this story: that Apple is such a philanthropist.
If not to buy Apple, whats the substitute Samsung? Dont you know that Samsungs products are from its OEM factory in Tianjin? Samsung workers income and benefits are even worse than those at Foxconn. If not to buy iPad (do you think) I will buy Android Pad? Have you ever been to the OEM factories for Lenovo and ASUS? Quanta, Compaq factories of other companies are all worse than those for Apple. Not to buy iPod (do you think) I will buy Aigo, Meizu? Do you know that Aigos Shenzhen factory will not pay their workers until the 19th of the second month? If you were to quit, fine, Im sorry, your salary will be withdrawn. Foxconn never dares to do such things. First, their profit margin is higher than peers as they manufacture for Apple. Second, at least those foreign devils will regularly audit factories. Domestic brands will never care if workers live or die. I am not speaking for Foxconn. I am just speaking as an insider of this industry, and telling you some disturbing truth.
But it has not done enough.
If the NYT didn't mention Apple, very few people would have digested the story in the way that it is being digested now. Apple products are the envy of our modern society. They are a symbol of wealth and prestige.
Mentioning Apple puts this issue into a different light. Many people use Apple products in some way or another, or have it on their Amazon wishlists. It allows readers to realize that our gadget-snatching ways are causing real harm and suffering abroad.
To rectify this problem, all of you Mac-using liberals should be up in arms. We should picket our nearest Apple stores and demand action from Apple. It begins with the consumer.
Remember: Apple doesn't follow, it leads. Not only should it produce the best tablets and smartphones in the world, it should hold its suppliers to the highest standards in labor safety.
They don't even need to pull out. They just need to adhere to the standards they are promoting. End of story.
And on a sarcastic side - how about this - how about you pay what you want and Apple just sends you the parts and you can assemble them yourself for free?
All you electronic user hypocrites should be up in arms. You should picket every single electronic store from Apple, to Best Buy, to the phone stores to your clothing stores, to your...well everything.
Remember what your leader said...Obama said fair share...lets make sure everyone shares the fair blame in making China a slave labor country.