Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Yes, but education doesn't give you ethics or morality.

Maybe to him, and to the companies paying the kickback, it is ethically and morally okay to do what they've done. Maybe it's not that he has no ethics or morality, it's just that the standards are different?
 
MIT (not what it used to mean)

I wonder if Jonathan Gruber was a one of his professors.
 
Holy Shnikes! The fine I can understand, but a year in prison?

So this guy spends a year in some federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, yet banksters who ignited a world economic collapse with their fraudulent credit default swaps get nothing? WTF?
 
When you do as much business with the Chinese as this guy had to do, it's not particularly shocking that their normal way of doing things business-wise would rub off on him.

Kickbacks and back alley deals are commonplace among Chinese vendors and client representatives.

As for the rather vivid description of his prison conditions... More like country club than Attica, I would imagine.
 
Holy Shnikes! The fine I can understand, but a year in prison?

So this guy spends a year in some federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, yet banksters who ignited a world economic collapse with their fraudulent credit default swaps get nothing? WTF?

When banksters do it they usually don't get into trouble because they're doing it with other banksters and other cronies who control the system. When an individual does it for his own benefit that's when they get into trouble.

That's why when a bankster goes against other cronies they usually get snuffed out. "Suicide" etc.
 
I never said white collar crime was victimless. I just don't see an actual criminal act here.

As I understand the events, he gave specifications of Apple products to suppliers. That's a violation of ethics and the NDA he presumably signed when he got hired. Rightfully, that's a civil action, not criminal action. He lied to his employer, which is not a crime.

Apple lost out on possible revenue. Apple's individual shareholders lost a negligible but non-zero amount of value (revenue diluted by share). He did not defraud Apple.

Candidly, filtering the money through various subsidiaries as he is alleged to have done is not, in and of itself, illegal. Just like Apple Europe filters every foreign sale so as to leave the money in Ireland where tax laws are favorable. I'm not a lawyer or forensic accountant and I don't have the details on this, so I can't say he did or did not launder money illegally. Just saying that shell games with money isn't necessary illegal.

If he did not fail to pay taxes on the money, the IRS would be all over him and presumably, the article would address that.

Just from the example they gave, other supply companies also lost out on opportunities to bid for the Apple contracts successfully as the one supplying kickbacks had an unfair advantage. That's definitely criminal, not civil.

One of the confirmed companies Devine received kickbacks from was Kaedar Electronics, which was a subsidiary of long-time Apple manufacturing partner Pegatron. Kaedar supplied Apple with iPod packing boxes starting in 2005, and admitted to paying kickbacks to an intermediary company between 2005 and 2008 in exchange for confidential Apple information that assisted certain contract negotiations with the company.
 
I'm pretty sure Apple paid him a large paycheck every two weeks but I guess greed can get anyone. He went to MIT but still unwise!

Two things...
Doesn't Jonathan Gruber teach economics at MIT? Wonder why he thinks lying and cheating for personal gain at OK.
There is one thing that has served me well:
"I may not tell you everything I know, but what I do tell you will be the truth, and I won't mislead you with that truth."
 
I'm not saying he is a decent human being or a model employee.
And for the record, this site exists in part because Apple employees, vendors and others have big mouths. Don't make it a crime.

Wow! I'm glad you don't work for me!
 
Not likely with a criminal record based on stealing from your company.


He probably will not get a job as a felon. The exception I have seen are if he has friend to assist him in getting a job. More than likely he will be self employed as he has a pretty unique skill set and education.
 
I'm not saying he is a decent human being or a model employee.
And for the record, this site exists in part because Apple employees, vendors and others have big mouths. Don't make it a crime.

He would have been the last person to leak the expected price of something, since he was making money off that secret information.

For the record, I'm not sure how the violation of state fraud/kickback laws became "promoted" to being a Federal case. It could be that because his financial transactions were the result of violating California state law (possibly Penal Code 641.3 PC), his inter-bank transfers then became illegal at the Federal level? Certainly, if it involved a Federal employee or contractor, it would be a Federal case directly, but otherwise, I would think, a violation of state law. I'm not a lawyer, but, if you do go ask a lawyer, I would guess that they would tell you that kickbacks are prohibited in California, period. (As everyone should know, state laws may vary.)

Perhaps someone who followed the case has a better (but not secret) information?


Edit: Some folks may be surprised by how severe the penalty for kickbacks/commercial bribery is (in California):

641.3. (a) Any employee who solicits, accepts, or agrees to accept
money or any thing of value from a person other than his or her
employer, other than in trust for the employer, corruptly and without
the knowledge or consent of the employer, in return for using or
agreeing to use his or her position for the benefit of that other
person, and any person who offers or gives an employee money or any
thing of value under those circumstances, is guilty of commercial
bribery.
(b) This section does not apply where the amount of money or
monetary worth of the thing of value is two hundred fifty dollars
($250) or less.
(c) Commercial bribery is punishable by imprisonment in the county
jail for not more than one year if the amount of the bribe is one
thousand dollars ($1,000) or less, or by imprisonment in the county
jail, or in the state prison for 16 months, or two or three years if
the amount of the bribe exceeds one thousand dollars ($1,000).
(d) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Employee" means an officer, director, agent, trustee,
partner, or employee.
(2) "Employer" means a corporation, association, organization,
trust, partnership, or sole proprietorship.
(3) "Corruptly" means that the person specifically intends to
injure or defraud (A) his or her employer, (B) the employer of the
person to whom he or she offers, gives, or agrees to give the money
or a thing of value, (C) the employer of the person from whom he or
she requests, receives, or agrees to receive the money or a thing of
value, or (D) a competitor of any such employer.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=639-653.2
 
Last edited:
There is no bachelors degree from MIT, Harvard or YALE that can save you when you are tagged as a fraud and a thief.

All that education, didn't teach him one iota... He had the knowledge and power to make it to the top, working hard with sacrifice. Instead he took his MIT background and try to coast his way to the top.

Good Riddance, I hope he becomes someone's sweetheart in jail.

You're suggesting he deserves to be repeatedly anally raped in prison because he leaked some corporate trade secrets and took some kickbacks?? Really?
 
Last edited:
Don't worry, he will find jesus in prison and in a year you will see him on Oprah promoting his new book (and lecture tour).
 
Pffft. Seriously!? :rolleyes:

Yes, seriously. Thieves, and especially thieves who commit crimes like this and things like identity theft are the lowest form of complex cell life on earth.

They commit their crimes with absolutely no regard for the harm it does to others, and they make the decision to do it with cold calculation. It's not a crime of passion. It's not a crime of desperation. It's a crime of pure, unwavering and remorseless greed. A sign of a soulless individual.

----------

Maybe to him, and to the companies paying the kickback, it is ethically and morally okay to do what they've done. Maybe it's not that he has no ethics or morality, it's just that the standards are different?

And there it is folks. The sign of a civilization caving in on itself because of those who promote the fallacy that ethics and morality are malleable, instead of absolute.
 
Rob a convenience store of $100 and get multiple years in prison.

Take a $1million bribe to defraud your employer and get a year which will most assuredly be less than a year.

Work at a bank and...
 
OK, so he violated Apple's policy on secrecy and ethical sourcing.

Did this guy actually commit a crime? Why would the public have an interest in his incarceration?

Pubb

Well, of course he did. He didn't just violate Apple's policy, he profited from it.

Let's say manufacturer X wanted some information early. And X bribed Devine with $100,000 to get that information. So X gave him $100,000, Devine put it in his pocket, and sent the information to X.

Hypothetically, Devine could have send X the information with a bill from Apple for $100,000, X would have paid $100,000, and the money would have landed in Apple's bank account. So basically, the $100,000 is stolen from Apple. Maybe X would have been willing to pay $200,000 for the information if it was all legal, and only $100,000 if it was illegal. In that case, Devine actually stole $200,000 from Apple. That would be the same as someone in an Apple Store selling MacBooks for $500 each, taking them out of the store's warehouse and putting the money into their own pocket.

----------

I have first hand experience that white-collar crime does hurt people. It often robs them of their futures and their jobs. Companies go broke because of people like him.

Fortunately no first hand experience. There was a TV program in the UK recently, showing how that kind of thing killed a company with 50 employees who all lost their jobs, as one of multiple examples.

----------

Apple lost out on possible revenue. Apple's individual shareholders lost a negligible but non-zero amount of value (revenue diluted by share). He did not defraud Apple.

You could say that whenever an Apple employee takes a computer owned by Apple, sells it, and puts the money into his own pocket.

Clearly, the information was owned by Apple, and if someone was willing to pay _him_ for the information, they would have been willing to pay _Apple_ for the information, and probably more since it would have been legitimate (I would pay more for a Mac legally bought at the Apple Store than for one that an employee sneaked out through the back door). So he stole from Apple.
 
He needs to spend 20 years in prison. Screw the fine. As an owner of several small businesses, stuff like this can ruin entire companies and affect many lives.
 
Former Apple Manager Sentenced to One Year in Prison, $4.5 Million Fine in Le...

Very good (inside) job, I hate those peoples! "Never ****** in the hands that feed you!"
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.