Geez- some of the icons have Reflections and some don't. This really is the ugliest thing they've released in a decade. If they wanted it to be like iOS, then the categories should have been folders, or you should be able to create your own folders. It's a mess.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Former Apple TV Engineer Claims New Apple TV Interface Discarded 5 Years Ago [Updatedx2]
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Geez- some of the icons have Reflections and some don't. This really is the ugliest thing they've released in a decade. If they wanted it to be like iOS, then the categories should have been folders, or you should be able to create your own folders. It's a mess.
There is absolutely no evidence of that. Maybe a minor roadmap exists of where they'd like to be, but things change way too quickly to plan that far ahead, with any type of exactness. No more than Kennedy knew HOW we were going to get to the moon when he decided we needed to get to the moon by the end of the decade.
The biggest problem I've found with this UI and even the other on some level is the content artwork showing up on the home screen in general. I've never liked it. I didn't care for it much on the previous UI and I care for it much less on this one. It's size combined with the new icon based interface is what leads to the cluttered look more than anything else.
I like seeing the artwork, but when I'm browsing in that section. When I go to Computer -> TV Shows, then start showing me artwork, and so on and so forth. I've rarely ever launched any content from the home screen, and I hate that the first artwork I see on both of these UI's is the latest movies from iTunes which I likely have no interest in anyways. That to me is the tackiest part of both of these UI's.
Also, when you scroll over to computer, artwork is presented based on recently played content. That oftentimes is music, and I'm sure I'm like many of us with large libraries who haven't gotten to updating each and every one of their 30,000+ songs with proper artwork. Subsequently, you're quite likely to see generic black iTunes logo artwork. Again, tacky.
And while I wish they would dial down the colors a bit on the apps right now, I do think that this direction they're going in is the right direction for the future. I like that I can get to Netflix by just flicking down once and launching it. But again, this interface looks clunky when combined with the Cover Flow element, though given my distaste for it with both UI's, maybe I just don't like a Cover Flow-like interface on a TV.
Any way you shake it, both of these UI's have glaring issues. Cover Flow is a large part of that in my mind, but this new UI absolutely is simpler to use for people that are not already familiar with the previous interface. And the more content they added, the more buried it was getting, and even as someone quite familiar with the previous interface, it was starting to get annoying the same way the overly-stuffed share-to buttons are starting to get annoying on iPhone and iPad.
But here's an example of why things need to get simpler for the Apple TV to be successful with more people. A friend of mine got his parents an Apple TV for Christmas primarily for Netflix, though he hoped they'd figure out how to use AirPlay with their new iPhones as well. He went to visit them again in February and they were confused as to why the movies all cost so much on Netflix despite their subscription. The problem? They thought all of those movies and TV shows from the iTunes store were a part of Netflix. A lot of people simply aren't intuitive with this new technology enough to think that Netflix is going to fall under the Internet category. They see movies and go there and make a lot of, well, ridiculous assumptions. But if they can see the Netflix logo when they immediately see the home screen, they're a lot less likely to be confused. And the more apps they add, the bigger this issue becomes.
Bottom line, the old and new UI's still need work, and it's high time the iPhone and especially the iPad Remote App's looked a lot more like what we see on the new UI.
I like seeing the artwork, but when I'm browsing in that section. When I go to Computer -> TV Shows, then start showing me artwork, and so on and so forth. I've rarely ever launched any content from the home screen, and I hate that the first artwork I see on both of these UI's is the latest movies from iTunes which I likely have no interest in anyways. That to me is the tackiest part of both of these UI's.
Also, when you scroll over to computer, artwork is presented based on recently played content. That oftentimes is music, and I'm sure I'm like many of us with large libraries who haven't gotten to updating each and every one of their 30,000+ songs with proper artwork. Subsequently, you're quite likely to see generic black iTunes logo artwork. Again, tacky.
And while I wish they would dial down the colors a bit on the apps right now, I do think that this direction they're going in is the right direction for the future. I like that I can get to Netflix by just flicking down once and launching it. But again, this interface looks clunky when combined with the Cover Flow element, though given my distaste for it with both UI's, maybe I just don't like a Cover Flow-like interface on a TV.
Any way you shake it, both of these UI's have glaring issues. Cover Flow is a large part of that in my mind, but this new UI absolutely is simpler to use for people that are not already familiar with the previous interface. And the more content they added, the more buried it was getting, and even as someone quite familiar with the previous interface, it was starting to get annoying the same way the overly-stuffed share-to buttons are starting to get annoying on iPhone and iPad.
But here's an example of why things need to get simpler for the Apple TV to be successful with more people. A friend of mine got his parents an Apple TV for Christmas primarily for Netflix, though he hoped they'd figure out how to use AirPlay with their new iPhones as well. He went to visit them again in February and they were confused as to why the movies all cost so much on Netflix despite their subscription. The problem? They thought all of those movies and TV shows from the iTunes store were a part of Netflix. A lot of people simply aren't intuitive with this new technology enough to think that Netflix is going to fall under the Internet category. They see movies and go there and make a lot of, well, ridiculous assumptions. But if they can see the Netflix logo when they immediately see the home screen, they're a lot less likely to be confused. And the more apps they add, the bigger this issue becomes.
Bottom line, the old and new UI's still need work, and it's high time the iPhone and especially the iPad Remote App's looked a lot more like what we see on the new UI.
Last edited:
I think the main issue here is, has an company or product mastered a user interface for a tv?
And do you expect apple to put the forth coming apple television UI into their 99 dollar apple tv box?I say wait till 2013 before we say this is the end of apple and steve era is gone. Remember steve had a roadmap 3 years in advance for the company? The true steve era won't end until 2015. But I do agree Tim Cook is more of a business suit kind of guy, I think scott forestall should be giving the keynotes from now on. He has an energy on stage that reminds me of Steve. I feel Tim Cook is acting on stage pretending to have true artistic passion for these products. He seems just like all the other CEOS of tech companies, that is what made Steve, Steve. He was different and he wasn't afraid to show it.
And George Lucas had a roadmap for the first 3 star wars movies. You think if he had died they would have been realized the way he envisioned? Ok, put aside any "they would've been better jokes."
It's such an odd phenomenon that as soon as Steve's funeral was over, every acts like he never existed or suddenly hates all his decisions. I don't get it.
What does any of that have to do with intuitiveness? And look at your iPhone Now look at the Apple TV interface. They look almost exactly the same. What's a mess?
Well, we do know for a fact that they were far enough ahead with developing this latest revision to the Apple TV to know that Steve Jobs at least could have and likely did have some hand in the thought behind this latest interface. They don't just cook up these projects for release in a few months, and we know they were testing these things for most of last year. I have a hard time believing that Steve had nothing at all to do with these changes given the timeframe. Two years from now and it's a different story, but this was a product that was in the pipeline while he was still alive and relatively active within the company.
It matches the iOS less than android. What matches? There's no shelf for main apps- they're just mixed in with the others. There's reflections on some icons, not others instead of a border and shadow. They rectangular, not square. They scroll down, like android, not page by page to the left and right. They don't open categories like folders the way iOS does. There is nothing similar other than a grid. And that's not anything special.
----------
Then what is the point of this thread? You're contradicting the whole premise that this was a design from years ago that Steve rejected. And that's exactly the way this played. Steve didn't have the ability to get Lion right, FCP right, nor a new iPhone 5 with a no beta Siri. They havent updated the Mac pro either. They've focused on the iPad and the iPhone. They got lucky on the latter that updated specs and Siri beta (still) was enough. But a lot of other stuff was just pushed too quickly and I'll bet this update of the apple tv was far from his mind.
Put that hockey puck mouse image away! Just looking at it gives me cramps.
Seriously, from the screen-shots of the new interface it looks like a good refresh. All those large graphics and different colours make it seem fun, which is the whole point of a media streamer. The original Apple TV interface that Jobs went with was functional but a little too dry, or dry by Apple standards.
I suspect the current Apple management will revisit a lot of previously rejected ideas that had many proponents still working at Apple. In a way, doing this shows everyone in Apple and outside of it that the company has to move forward without his guiding hand.
I personally like the iOS look. I don't find it difficult and it's better than the wd tv series interface. Either way, there has to be a menu scroll, so whys the app look so bad. Do you guys prefer the list of words to scroll rather than icons? Personally, I like scrolling thru icons and pictures rather than folders and words.
Did anyone that posted read Steve jobs book? Like anyone else, he made lots of bad decisions too. Or how do we know Steve wasn't the one that chose the new ATv ui? How do we know the "supposedly" x apple employee isn't trying to create some controversy? He sure did get some popularity these past couple days. Better yet, why isn't he working for apple now? Steve probably fired him for making stupid choices so now he's online talkin smack....
Bottom line, to each of their own. I just hope apple continues to innovate and grow and most importantly listen to their customers....
Did anyone that posted read Steve jobs book? Like anyone else, he made lots of bad decisions too. Or how do we know Steve wasn't the one that chose the new ATv ui? How do we know the "supposedly" x apple employee isn't trying to create some controversy? He sure did get some popularity these past couple days. Better yet, why isn't he working for apple now? Steve probably fired him for making stupid choices so now he's online talkin smack....
Bottom line, to each of their own. I just hope apple continues to innovate and grow and most importantly listen to their customers....
What irritates me is that with every major and point release of the ATV interface that has modified the home screen, they have NEVER addressed the jumbled mess of the submenus that follow.
It's inexcusable after 5 years that TV Shows still come up in a list that includes each season of each show as a separate item, rather than categorizing the seasons UNDER the show. iTunes has one of the most powerful and flexible sorting and metadata handling of any software, yet the ATV and other Apple iOS apps do not conform. Third party apps that access iTunes.xml can get it right, why can't Apple?
Also agree that under the main headings of "Movies" or "Music" should be "My Movies" or "My Music" that seamlessly lists all media from all Home Shared computers. I chose to log them all into Sharing, why does their content remain separated into "Computers?" I don't want to think about "Computers," I want to see all the stuff my family has in their cumulative shared libraries.
The thing is a damn computer, why can't it sort correctly!!!
Yes, I've posted feedback to Apple...every...single..time...
It's inexcusable after 5 years that TV Shows still come up in a list that includes each season of each show as a separate item, rather than categorizing the seasons UNDER the show. iTunes has one of the most powerful and flexible sorting and metadata handling of any software, yet the ATV and other Apple iOS apps do not conform. Third party apps that access iTunes.xml can get it right, why can't Apple?
Also agree that under the main headings of "Movies" or "Music" should be "My Movies" or "My Music" that seamlessly lists all media from all Home Shared computers. I chose to log them all into Sharing, why does their content remain separated into "Computers?" I don't want to think about "Computers," I want to see all the stuff my family has in their cumulative shared libraries.
The thing is a damn computer, why can't it sort correctly!!!
Yes, I've posted feedback to Apple...every...single..time...
Last edited:
The fact that there are icons at all is a big step towards it looking more like iOS. You're over-thinking everything else. Initially interfacing with icons to launch app-specific content as opposed to menus is key here. Instead of thinking where Netflix would be, you just see Netflix. And touch-based iOS had to make it to major revision 4 before we got folders. And that's with probably much larger engineering and design teams at work on the products.
Apple TV is still a hobby, so progress is going to come slower unfortunately. But don't kid yourself into thinking that this isn't moving towards the iOS so many know just because of lack of polish and differences in the way we scroll through it due to the differences between remotes and touch screens.
And don't be shocked if a future Apple HDTV actually does allow us to interface with the apps using motion-sensing technology. A virtual touch screen makes a lot more sense with an icon-based interface than the previous menu-based interface did. I don't know how or if they'll pull it off effectively, but you know they're experimenting either way.
How do we know he knows good design? I personally hate some of the software UI. Way too kitch.
The separation of seasons instead of shows has irritated me for ages as well. You'd think by now they'd make use of the Sort Show metadata if they could. I have 8 seasons of The Office now, 6 of 30 Rock, 6 of Lost, will be hitting 5 of Mad Men tomorrow...on and on...I have a lot of TV shows and it'd just be real nice if I could group them by show instead of season. Just let the cover art for each season flow through the side like when you highlight TV Shows or Movies in the main Computer screen. Problem solved! Simple.
I don't get it, but I also still can't make groups in the address book on my iPhone or iPad without a 3rd part app. Apple may be the best, but they're certainly not perfect.
Jony Ive has nothing to do with software UI design. Maybe he should b/c the stuff coming from Scott Forstall and Eddy Cue's teams leave a lot to be desired. I hope iOS 6 is a complete redesign.
----------
According to Steve in Walter Isaccsons book he and Jony came up with the products and the pulled others in. So I think Jony is involved with the whole product from a concept standoint, not just the outer shell. Of course I doubt he gets involved with software UI design.
----------
Um in Walter Isaacson's book Jony Ive said that when Steve came to the design studio he could see layed out on a large table everything that was in the pipeline for the next 4 years. I think that's where the story may have come from. I don't think we need evidence to know the stuff coming out now was in the hopper when Steve was still alive. When the MacBook Air came out in 2008 Steve told Newsweek that Jony first showed him a prototype 18 months earlier and they both wondered how in the world they would fit a computer in there. So maybe there isn't a formal plan on paper somewhere but for sure a deep pipeline of stuff that Steve would have been involved in.That's a really good question.
Jobs claimed he had "solved the TV interface problem", whatever that means. Personally, I think he meant using trained monkeys (or children, if you have them) to change the channel and adjust the rabbit ear antenna. No, wait, that was my own childhood. Never mind
The "four year plan" was a story started by a UK tabloid paper, The Daily Mail, the day Jobs died.
The only "evidence" of such a plan was some analyst's guess, but of course lazy reporters immediately repeated the article as gospel.
Steve Jobs was also known to change his mind a lot and recognized that the best idea for today might not be the best idea tomorrow and vice versa. It could be crazy. Old colleagues would describe his ever-changing though ever-polarized mind by saying one day he could say black is the best, white is just the worst. Then a year later say that white is the best and black is the worst, and this would be noted as if he never, ever said that black was the best.
Five years ago when this type of interface was originally rejected, there was no Netflix or MLB.TV or Vimeo or iTunes Trailers or iTunes Match. There was no App Store on any device. There was no iPad. So much has changed in five years that fundamentally affects the way we think about all of the devices we now use. It would've made no sense to have a grid layout for a home screen when there basically were no apps. Why have icons that don't match the look of the second level windows when you only need to direct people a few different ways to begin with? But things have changed now, dramatically, and they're going to keep changing more and more in the coming years. Internet streaming has grown immensely, and the Internet section had already become ridiculous to navigate through.
This latest UI is like a less-polished iPhone OS 1.0. It's not the prettiest, we don't have much control and there's no App Store yet that would be necessary to allow us more control. If I don't want the NBA app now and choose to delete it if there was a way, what do I do if I decide I then want it back? Where do I go? The App Store, of course. Oh wait, that doesn't exist yet. Oh yeah, there's also only 8 GB's of storage available so unless they come up with some unique ways to store and run apps, it's not going to be a game changer overnight even if it becomes available soon in one form or another.
But anyways, as it all relates to Steve Jobs rejecting this 5 years ago and green-lighting it last year, I absolutely would buy that. No doubt about that in my mind. I don't know if he'd let the Cover Flow take up so much screen real estate that further obscures the icons, but I do believe that he was probably aware of a move towards an icon-based interface that better suited the ever-increasing amount of apps arriving on Apple TV. The grid didn't make sense five years ago when there are no apps, but now, there's apps, and a lot more likely coming. It's as simple as that.
Exactly. The current UI is, in my view, actually more intuitive than the previous one since anyone can pick a certain option without having to look for it inside another menu.
People seem to have a lot of spare time in their hands to whine so much about such a minuscule aspect of Apple's product line. Worse yet, the same people imply that Apple is "doomed" as it would signal the end of SJ's perfectionist influence...wake up and smell the coffee, guys - even SJ himself did worse than this.
AGAIN: you should be concerned about the horrid interface used on iTunes for iPad, which already existed before SJ passed away. Now THAT is evidence of an incompetent and sloppy work.
I am going to take the positive route, I think the "new" interface is the start of something great! I have an autistic kid in the house, and he is able to navigate the new interface without any issues. I would like to be able to arrange the icons, like I can an IOS device. One of the things, I love about Apple, is they listen to their users! They care about their customers, and if you don't like something, let them know in a constructive manner, they do listen. Remember.... Think Different
What do you base that on? From Walter Issacson's book I got the impression that Steve Jobs and Apple made plans for the company to continue on the same path that it has been since his return. Apple has a company culture inspired by Jobs' way of doing things and I see no reason why they would throw it all out the window just because he passed away. You underestimate Apple by saying it is doomed without one man.
It's funny how Apple fanboys will credit Steve Jobs with absolutely every freaking thing that Apple has ever done. But on the same note going forward, they claim that Steve Jobs is not instrumental to Apple's success.
You can't have it both ways, and if you are super excited about Steve Jobs and think that he is the greatest thing to come along since sliced bread, well then you have to admit that the glory days of apple are going to be over pretty soon.
I was never a fan of Steve Jobs, I was felt like he held the company back. I believe that software engineers and people like Johnny Ives are the true geniuses behind Apple.
I also believe that hero worship is a sign of weakness, a personal character flaw.
This new user interface is actually pretty good, and if Steve Jobs rejected it five years ago it really says nothing about anything!
You can't have it both ways, and if you are super excited about Steve Jobs and think that he is the greatest thing to come along since sliced bread, well then you have to admit that the glory days of apple are going to be over pretty soon.
I was never a fan of Steve Jobs, I was felt like he held the company back. I believe that software engineers and people like Johnny Ives are the true geniuses behind Apple.
I also believe that hero worship is a sign of weakness, a personal character flaw.
This new user interface is actually pretty good, and if Steve Jobs rejected it five years ago it really says nothing about anything!