Former Tesla Lead Engineer Doug Field Returns to Apple to Work on Project Titan

[DeepIn2U]

Is overseeing production of the Tesla Model 3 supposed to be a recommendation?

Does anyone remember that Elon Musk joke of Apple taking failed Tesla engineers?

Corporate espionage in 3-2-1. Done.

PS: Honestly I think Apple is NOT making a car! Too much BS and governmental issues to deal with. I think, like QNX, Apple is building a complete system for car manufacturers as partners/customers ... NOT a Car.

 

[EdT]

How many days a year do you drive more than 300 miles? Most people don’t drive nearly that many miles every day, so charging isn’t an issue. Come home, plug it in, and you’re charged up and ready to go the next morning. When people worry about charging and charging stations, they’re stuck in the gas station paradigm where you need to rely upon a third party for fuel. With an electric car, you “fill it up” every night yourself at home.

I drive, just for work and back, 75 miles each day. If I go to a movie or something similar that can increase my distance to 120 miles plus. I am helping a relative re-do his old farmhouse, and round trip that is probably 160 miles if all I do is drive to his house and back, which I do on weekends.

I have friends in Denver and Kansas City, with KC being juuuuuuuust on the edge of how far a Tesla can travel on a charge, at around 230 miles, give or take a few miles. I haven't checked how many charging stations Tesla has in Nebraska, but Denver is well over 500 miles away, so unless there are a couple of them in western Nebraska or soon and in Colorado near the Nebraska border then that trip is risky as well.

I own a 2005 Prius, the first generation 4 model. I am the original owner and I caught a lot of flack about how ugly it was and how I would regret having to replace the batteries and all the other mechanical failures that people said would happen. I now have 280,000 miles on that car, and it still has it's original battery pack. My second car is also a hybrid. I get how having a 'different' car brings out the nay-sayers, I just don't think states like Nebraska and Wyoming and Montana which are extremely low population states have the population to justify any electric car maker spending money on charging stations. They need to make certain areas with a lot of potential buyers are ready first.

It's a long way from Omaha (and I don't live IN Omaha, it's just the nearest city) to any other major metro area. KC is probably closest. My Prius can make it from border to border driving across Nebraska, which is 500 miles. After that I can refill at any gas station. Once you can say something similar about electric cars and when it is as easy and fast to recharge as a gas stop then I will think electrics are good for us in fly-over country.

 

[Abazigal]

Agree. But in the end Apple could buy any carmaker it wants (if it really wants to be in that market)
I would know a specific/innovative US-electric car company in severe need of cash but they have their own autopilot tech and quite an adverse attitude towards everything out there not theirs.
Interesting times to come...

The positive for Cook is that plans that do not exist can not be leaked.

I don’t see Apple doing that. Apple is partly as profitable as they are because they outsource all their manufacturing. Tesla is a poor choice of an acquisition because of this. Apple might be interested in their design secrets, but wouldn’t want the production plants that come with it.

 

[wizard]

pretty much means we won't see a single thing about the apple car for at least 3-5 years.

Maybe maybe not. The problem with many people is that they expect instant gratification when it comes to Apple news. Designing a new car from the ground up is not something that can be done in a year and frankly 5 years is pushing it if you want to debut a high quality machine.

 

[doelcm82]

I’m not saying I wouldn’t be excited to see an Apple Car, but I just don’t see what Apple brings to the automotive table that they couldn’t just license to other automakers like they do Apple CarPlay. Why build the ENTIRE CAR, and not just the individual technologies and softwares?

You could have said the same about mobile phones, or MP3 players, before Apple showed its hand.

I can’t say what the answer is regarding cars, but I’m willing to wait and see rather than dismiss it sight unseen.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I would never buy a Tesla based on their repair policies.

 

[Soccertess]

At least now he's back at a car company where the CEO doesn't overpromise and underdeliver.

yea, that DAMN MUSK! - revolutionized the rocket industry (have you heard of a company called SpaceX), does what NASA and Boeing haven't been able to do, and at the same time created a car company with a market cap bigger than other US auto firms that have been around for years. The NERVE OF THE GUY! Boring Company seems pretty interesting with some amazing potential, just thought I would mention that.

Cook - took over the most innovative company at the time in the world with leading tech (thank you Steve, RIP). and what has he done with it, rose gold? Although Airpods are pretty sweet so I give him credit for that. BUT HONESTLY, a MONKEY could have taken over Apple with the type of engineering talent that Steve put together not to mention the largest piggy bank in the world! but everyone gives Tim so much credit because the Chinese economy was booming and Apple had a new billion customers. Other than that, he hasn't delivered anything revolutionary. Heck, in the time Tim has been a leader, what has he released? Apple watch and Home Pod? Musk - Falcon 9, Falcon 9 heavy, Model 3, Model S, Model X.


Apple really is Tesla's grave yard. Think of it. Field couldn't get large scale manufacturing for the model three going, but Musk takes over, and now they are producing 5000 a month. Yes Musk keeps not hitting self imposed deadlines, but about those Mac Pros? How about those Mac Minis? How about those one port Mac books?

Elon is changing the world, Cook is bent on making rose gold products, watch straps and 10k Apple watches.

 

[D.T.]

I drive, just for work and back, 75 miles each day. If I go to a movie or something similar that can increase my distance to 120 miles plus. I am helping a relative re-do his old farmhouse, and round trip that is probably 160 miles if all I do is drive to his house and back, which I do on weekends. I have friends in Denver and Kansas City, with KC being juuuuuuuust on the edge of how far a Tesla can travel on a charge, at around 230 miles, give or take a few miles. I haven't checked how many charging stations Tesla has in Nebraska, but Denver is well over 500 miles away, so unless there are a couple of them in western Nebraska or soon and in Colorado near the Nebraska border then that trip is risky as well.

Yep.

I've had multiple instances in the last couple of years where there was not a convenient charging option during a trip (Savannah, The Keys), and a couple of 400+ mile road trips that the DDRT was able to easily handle on less than one tank of gas (zero time loss for a fuel stop) + 6 people in relative comfort, 250 lbs on a hitch carrier, 6 roller bags, dive equipment, 2 coolers, fishing/lobster gear, etc. It's not even close to being an option for us due to the tow/passenger/range/real utility capability.

After owning one for a year, I’ve never encountered another car that could beat me. Muscles cars, Porsche, you name it.

I have friends with - and have owned in the past - performance vehicles that would suck the headlights out of any model Tesla, so you must be encountering some slow cars Or maybe "racing" 0-60 which is a performance metric for mopeds I've never seen one at a track event [road course or something like the Texas Mile] maybe come out to one, see if it can lap a few times or how it works at higher speeds vs. more capable vehicles and drivers

FTR, I've been in / driven dozens of Teslas, heck, I probably did before 95% of the owners on this board

And the car drives AMAZING. Anyone who has floored it in a Tesla knows what I am talking about. It's so much fun. It's like having a roller coaster at your disposal.

True, it accelerates a few times very quickly, in a short sprint, but there's so many more performance metrics that us enthusiasts look to for a complete driving experience.

 

[jerryk]

I love my Tesla Model X. Best car I have ever owned. Quiet and fast (0-60 4.9). Handles amazingly well and the power is so smooth and feels limitless.

I hardly ever drive my loaded BMW X3 any more.

 

[PickUrPoison]

You could have said the same about mobile phones, or MP3 players, before Apple showed its hand.

I can’t say what the answer is regarding cars, but I’m willing to wait and see rather than dismiss it sight unseen.

They’re definitely making a car. There are 5,000 employees with access credentials to the program. The Apple car may not be sold directly to consumers, but rather used in transportation as a service.

 

[jerryk]

Elon Musk mentioned on Twitter the other day that they he had secured funding to bring Tesla private. Could that funding be Apple? I would keel over from joy if that were the case. Now, seeing this hire, the wheels are turning?

Apple has not been listed a funding source. SoftBank has been one of the mentioned companies. And several large Chinese investment firms are said to be on board.

 

[krell100]

Please Apple, concentrate on your core business. Let car manufacturers build cars. Core competency and focus. iOS/macOS are pretty crap at this point and don't get me started on the iApps.. and you're wasting money and talent on dead end projects and crappy TV show. Sure the share price is great but the actual product is just not at this point.

 

[jerryk]

I drive, just for work and back, 75 miles each day. If I go to a movie or something similar that can increase my distance to 120 miles plus. I am helping a relative re-do his old farmhouse, and round trip that is probably 160 miles if all I do is drive to his house and back, which I do on weekends.

I have friends in Denver and Kansas City, with KC being juuuuuuuust on the edge of how far a Tesla can travel on a charge, at around 230 miles, give or take a few miles. I haven't checked how many charging stations Tesla has in Nebraska, but Denver is well over 500 miles away, so unless there are a couple of them in western Nebraska or soon and in Colorado near the Nebraska border then that trip is risky as well.

I own a 2005 Prius, the first generation 4 model. I am the original owner and I caught a lot of flack about how ugly it was and how I would regret having to replace the batteries and all the other mechanical failures that people said would happen. I now have 280,000 miles on that car, and it still has it's original battery pack. My second car is also a hybrid. I get how having a 'different' car brings out the nay-sayers, I just don't think states like Nebraska and Wyoming and Montana which are extremely low population states have the population to justify any electric car maker spending money on charging stations. They need to make certain areas with a lot of potential buyers are ready first.

It's a long way from Omaha (and I don't live IN Omaha, it's just the nearest city) to any other major metro area. KC is probably closest. My Prius can make it from border to border driving across Nebraska, which is 500 miles. After that I can refill at any gas station. Once you can say something similar about electric cars and when it is as easy and fast to recharge as a gas stop then I will think electrics are good for us in fly-over country.

First, for everyday charging you charge at home while you sleep, just like your phone. And just like your phone when you wake up you have 100% range. For the model 3 long range that is around 300 mile. While you can charge from any 120 volt outlet, for your usage I suggest 240 volt charging from either a dryer type outlet or a dedicated circuit like a NEMA 14-50 for faster charging. Teslas come with a power adapter for 120 volts and the NEMA 14-50. Other adapters are available for different plugs. The price to charge depends you electrical rate. Charging 300 mile costs is about $12 here in California and $4 in Atlanta. Most people charge at home or work or at public chargers, except when they travel.

Second, regarding your travels, 99% of the people in the US are within 150 miles of a Supercharger. if you go on Interstate 80, 70, or 90, there are Superchargers every 100 to 150 miles. They are usually located at places where you can get food, go to the bathroom or shop such as restaurants, shopping malls, Starbucks, etc. parking lots. With a Supercharger you can add around 300 miles of range in one hour. But you can add 200 miles in 25-30 minutes. The best thing is the cost. For Model X and S the cost to use superchargers is $0.

Looking along I-80 supercharger stations are in Ogalla, Gothenberg, Grand Island, Lincoln, and Council Bluff. Here is a link to the supercharger map for the US centered on Nebraska.https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&se... charger&location=councilbluffsiasupercharger There are other maps for Europe and China.

Third, maintenance on a Tesla is minimal. There are about 20 moving parts in the drive train. They have regen braking like your Prius, so as you know the brakes last forever. But any maintenance like oil changes, tune ups, cooling system maintenance, etc do not exist on a Tesla.

Fourth, a lot of Prius owners are moving to Teslas. The Prius has been the car most traded in for the Model 3.

 

[macduke]

I can already hear the sound of my wallet crying sometime in the 2020s.

 

[Abazigal]

I have no idea what project Titan is all about, but when you look at the Bloomberg clip from last year’s WWDC, it doesn’t actually say what people have decided it says. There’s absolutely nothing to support the idea that Apple has moved away from building a whole car to only doing the autonomous driving component; in fact, it hints at something much bigger than autonomy.

Specifically, Cook doesn’t say they’re focusing on autonomous systems. Or rather he does say that, but then quickly corrects himself.

He says:


Later he hints that there’s more going on that they’re not willing to share:


The rumors have Apple at 1,000 employees when the project is the whole car, then reportedly having a layoff in 2016, with 17 Apple employees landing at Zoox over the next year. Then in 2017 we’re supposed to think the project has been scaled back just because Cook talks about autonomy being a core technology?

Now here we are, a year later, and there’s 5,000 employees with need-to-know access credentials for Titan, and Apple’s spending $1.1+ billion per month on R&D. That’s four times the amount of money Zoox raised to do an entire car—spent over a period of years—and Apple’s spending that every month. (Obviously not all of that is for Titan.) Less than $10 billion has been invested in Tesla, to date.

Yes, autonomy is a core technology. But Cook talked about autonomy, electrification and ride-sharing. Also, don’t forget Apple’s $1 billion investment in Didi Chuxing, a ride-hailing service in China.

It doesn’t take 5,000 people to figure out autonomy. Tesla only had 3,000 employees in December 1012—six months after it launched the model S. There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that Apple’s plans are much bigger than autonomous systems, and it would seem difficult to think otherwise.

Taken to its logical conclusion, Apple is going for autonomous ride sharing. So rather than simply supplying the OS behind the car or even the car itself, Apple wants a ridesharing fleet of self-driving Apple Cars put on very defined routes in a limited number of cities. Over time, these routes would expand to new geographies and include different passenger compartments depending on the country.

Essentially playing a key role in the transportation infrastructure of the countries they choose to play in.

 

[usarioclave]

iOS is substantially more complicated than a car.

Apple has not been listed a funding source. SoftBank has been one of the mentioned companies. And several large Chinese investment firms are said to be on board.

And the Saudi sovereign fund.

 

[Cobalt50]

"self-driving shuttle service" for Apple employees. Ha. If you don't get on it you are seen as disloyal to the company. If you (I) get on you are terrified.

Saw my first Tesla in the wild about three months ago. I don't think it was on auto but it should have been. They guy cut across my lane to make a right turn.

 

[A MacBook lover]

What are you talking about? There is no Tesla model with a heads-up display.

Mode S, Model X. Right in front like any instrument cluster

 

[2298754]

Mode S, Model X. Right in front like any instrument cluster

That would be the LCD gauge cluster. HUDs project information onto the windshield.

 

[A MacBook lover]

Yep.

I've had multiple instances in the last couple of years where there was not a convenient charging option during a trip (Savannah, The Keys), and a couple of 400+ mile road trips that the DDRT was able to easily handle on less than one tank of gas (zero time loss for a fuel stop) + 6 people in relative comfort, 250 lbs on a hitch carrier, 6 roller bags, dive equipment, 2 coolers, fishing/lobster gear, etc. It's not even close to being an option for us due to the tow/passenger/range/real utility capability.




I have friends with - and have owned in the past - performance vehicles that would suck the headlights out of any model Tesla, so you must be encountering some slow cars Or maybe "racing" 0-60 which is a performance metric for mopeds I've never seen one at a track event [road course or something like the Texas Mile] maybe come out to one, see if it can lap a few times or how it works at higher speeds vs. more capable vehicles and drivers

FTR, I've been in / driven dozens of Teslas, heck, I probably did before 95% of the owners on this board




True, it accelerates a few times very quickly, in a short sprint, but there's so many more performance metrics that us enthusiasts look to for a complete driving experience.

All these points are fair. On the metric of 0-60 or even passing speeds of 40-80, this thing is quick, fun, and pretty much the king on the road. I’m sure you could ‘find’ a much more expensive automobile that could beat the specs, run a mile on a curved course, perform faster turns, or whatever. But for 99.9% of cars, Tesla is on top, and having experienced the new roadster at the launch - its only going to get better.

Plus when you’ve had your fun - you can let the car take over driving. That’s a ‘metric’ that’s important to me. Other manufacturers are beginning to incorporate some self driving, but are typically outsourced and I believe Tesla’s in-house product is much more polished and actually learns.

I’m surprised how often superchargers get added every month: https://supercharge.info/map

Once Tesla makes the 600-mile battery a standard, it will take over gas.

 

[carpleror]

You could have said the same about mobile phones, or MP3 players, before Apple showed its hand.

I can’t say what the answer is regarding cars, but I’m willing to wait and see rather than dismiss it sight unseen.

I’m not dismissing at all. Like I said, I’d like to see what an Apple Car looks like. All I’m saying is it seems like an unlikely marriage. When Apple got into mobile phones it was totally different. Mobile phones, MP3 players, and home computers are all in the same category - consumer electronics. Consumer electronics and the automotive industry are two totally different things.

 

[femike]

It maybe coincidence, but when he left for Tesla in 2013 (he was VP of Mac hardware engineering), it was around that time that mac hardware started go down south at higher rate. I wonder if the mac team was significantly changed or reduced by staff re-assigned or by staff leaving.

 

[EdT]

First, for everyday charging you charge at home while you sleep, just like your phone. And just like your phone when you wake up you have 100% range. For the model 3 long range that is around 300 mile. While you can charge from any 120 volt outlet, for your usage I suggest 240 volt charging from either a dryer type outlet or a dedicated circuit like a NEMA 14-50 for faster charging. Teslas come with a power adapter for 120 volts and the NEMA 14-50. Other adapters are available for different plugs. The price to charge depends you electrical rate. Charging 300 mile costs is about $12 here in California and $4 in Atlanta. Most people charge at home or work or at public chargers, except when they travel.

Second, regarding your travels, 99% of the people in the US are within 150 miles of a Supercharger. if you go on Interstate 80, 70, or 90, there are Superchargers every 100 to 150 miles. They are usually located at places where you can get food, go to the bathroom or shop such as restaurants, shopping malls, Starbucks, etc. parking lots. With a Supercharger you can add around 300 miles of range in one hour. But you can add 200 miles in 25-30 minutes. The best thing is the cost. For Model X and S the cost to use superchargers is $0.

Looking along I-80 supercharger stations are in Ogalla, Gothenberg, Grand Island, Lincoln, and Council Bluff. Here is a link to the supercharger map for the US centered on Nebraska.https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&search=Omaha, NE, USA&bounds=44.434667658681775,-89.243782125,37.841138726419665,-102.427375875&zoom=7&filters=store,service,supercharger,destination charger&location=councilbluffsiasupercharger There are other maps for Europe and China.

Third, maintenance on a Tesla is minimal. There are about 20 moving parts in the drive train. They have regen braking like your Prius, so as you know the brakes last forever. But any maintenance like oil changes, tune ups, cooling system maintenance, etc do not exist on a Tesla.

Fourth, a lot of Prius owners are moving to Teslas. The Prius has been the car most traded in for the Model 3.

The stations you listed are all along I-80. Most cars on I-80, at least once west of Lincoln, are travelers going from some other state and only traveling through Nebraska on their way to someplace else. Chicago or Minneapolis to Denver, for example. Not only is this a fly over state its a drive through state. People who live here drive a whole lot of places that don't include going near those 5 locations.

I'm not saying that Tesla is a bad car or product, but 250 mile range on the east coast gets you to a LOT of major cities and hundreds of charging stations. Same with California and the coast of Oregon and Washington State. From Chicago you can get to cities like Detroit, Green Bay, Saint Louis or Minneapolis with that range.

From Omaha you can't get to any of those cities on a single charge. Kansas City and Des Moines Ia are the only 2 large non Nebraskan cities you could reach. Yes there are charging stations along whatever probable route most people would take. But leave the Interstate and you abandon the availability of stations in the Great Plains states. Those stations make it practical to travel through Nebraska to get somewhere else. It's not practical to drive IN Nebraska unless you stay close to those 5 locations.

In time it will happen. More charging stations will be built and not just along interstates. But Tesla's priority has to be areas that have a high population density. Nebraska isn't one of those.

And every electric car manufacturer needs to get together and agree on a charging plug and voltage standard. A Chevy Bolt -stupid name for an all electric car when the same company also sells the Volt which is a hybrid- can't use Tesla charging stations or vice-versa. It would help all electric vehicle manufacturers to agree on a standard so that any charging station is usable by any electric car.

 

[D.T.]

All these points are fair. On the metric of 0-60 or even passing speeds of 40-80, this thing is quick, fun, and pretty much the king on the road. I’m sure you could ‘find’ a much more expensive automobile that could beat the specs, run a mile on a curved course, perform faster turns, or whatever. But for 99.9% of cars, Tesla is on top, and having experienced the new roadster at the launch - its only going to get better.

Plus when you’ve had your fun - you can let the car take over driving. That’s a ‘metric’ that’s important to me. Other manufacturers are beginning to incorporate some self driving, but are typically outsourced and I believe Tesla’s in-house product is much more polished and actually learns.

I’m surprised how often superchargers get added every month: https://supercharge.info/map

Once Tesla makes the 600-mile battery a standard, it will take over gas.

Yeah, to be clear I'm not "anti", I'm just in more of a "not quite yet for me" mode

 

[avkills]

Just about every single tech company is working on "autonomous" somethings. Cars, cities of the future, you name it. So of course Apple is going to be in on it.