Fortnite and Epic Games Store Submitted to Apple for iOS Launch in EU

[MadDawg2020]

I don’t see Epic lowering prices now that they have what they wanted, fee free access to iOS.
This is ALL about money for greedy developers and not a benefit in anyway whatsoever for consumers.

 

[surferfb]

And how exactly will you be impacted if you don’t install the Epic Games Store? And if you don’t install the Epic Games Store, how is the iOS platform made “worse”?

Some people don’t think before they type and it really shows.

If you keep reading the thread, I give some examples, some already realized, and some just likely to happen. Here’s a helpful link.

In the future, I suggest reading the thread before you type, it shows when you don’t. 🙄

 

[AndiG]

Because for FreeBSD it was never in the license? Apple would pay if they had to.

You really took this serious? But this a valid point. Apple doesn‘t feel ashamed to use OpenSource technology as its base, claims that it „owns“ this technology and collects fees for it?

Apple doesn‘t even donate to the FreeBSD community.

 

[Manzanito]

I could say the same for game consoles like the switch and PS5 as well. No one seems to bat an eyelid at them charging game developers 30% or paying upwards of $60 for games, yet suddenly, everyone becomes misers on the iOS platform.

Maybe at ps5rumors, if such a thing exists, people do care. As a matter of principle, everyone defending the DMA would agree the same thing should happen to similarly closed ecosystems. But we’re talking apple.

 

[svish]

Not surprised to see this happening.

 

[boss.king]

I still don’t get the desire for outside app stores. I bought an iPhone to have walls. If I wanted that much choice, I’d get an android.

You can still have all the walls you want. Just because there's a door doesn't mean you have to open it.

 

[laptech]

Epic is going to catch Apple out with the CTF. At the moment I can only assume no one has hit benchmark for CTF which is why no company has sued Apple for breach of the DMA. Once Epic get's it's app store approved, there will be tens of millions of downloads of Fortnite which will easily break CTF and that is when Epic will have Apple because even though something is written down, it is very difficult to take legal action on just words alone. Those words have to take effect and once Apple take CTF payments from Epic, Epic will be able to sue Apple for breaches/abuse of EU DMA due to the inclusion of the CTF.

 

[I7guy]

You really took this serious? But this a valid point. Apple doesn‘t feel ashamed to use OpenSource technology as its base, claims that it „owns“ this technology and collects fees for it?

Apple doesn‘t even donate to the FreeBSD community.

That may all be true but it’s neither here nor there.

 

[gnipgnop]

Epic is going to catch Apple out with the CTF. At the moment I can only assume no one has hit benchmark for CTF which is why no company has sued Apple for breach of the DMA. Once Epic get's it's app store approved, there will be tens of millions of downloads of Fortnite which will easily break CTF and that is when Epic will have Apple because even though something is written down, it is very difficult to take legal action on just words alone. Those words have to take effect and once Apple take CTF payments from Epic, Epic will be able to sue Apple for breaches/abuse of EU DMA due to the inclusion of the CTF.

How is the CTF in violation of the DMA? The trigger for CTF is basically a cap for downloads of a for-profit app. It's not triggered by steering someone outside the App Store. The DMA itself is heavily oriented around caps for monthly users so it will be a bit strange if the EU claims caps are "abusive".

 

[gnipgnop]

Maybe at ps5rumors, if such a thing exists, people do care. As a matter of principle, everyone defending the DMA would agree the same thing should happen to similarly closed ecosystems. But we’re talking apple.

Principle? There's no principle. People are just ignoring the actual history of closed/open systems. macOS and Linux are both open systems like Windows but Windows dominates the desktop market. Why is that? Why wouldn't all three be equally as successful if the software distribution method is really what matters for competition? How do you explain consoles with closed systems failing? According to the EU, a closed system is a magic bullet for market dominance. But if you look at the console market, there are three different systems that are relatively successful commercially. That's actually BETTER than the desktop market.

 

[SpaceJello]

You can still have all the walls you want. Just because there's a door doesn't mean you have to open it.

Problem is the door requires resources to be diverted from making the insides of the wall better.

 

[boss.king]

Problem is the door requires resources to be diverted from making the insides of the wall better.

That's a pretty weak argument. Apple puts resources behind all sorts of features every year, it's unreasonable to expect that everyone should like all of them.

 

[MacFarmer]

Imagine Apple not approving it lol

haha, maybe apple will wait and see if they get this 30B fine. If yes, then they toss out the request

anyway, not a fan of Epic.. Lets hope it will flop.

 

[surferfb]

That's a pretty weak argument. Apple puts resources behind all sorts of features every year, it's unreasonable to expect that everyone should like all of them.

Also increases code complexity, creates new potential attack vectors, etc. And that assumes apps you don’t want/need to use decide to stay in the App Store. Just wait until that app you use for work every day leaves so they don’t have to abide by Apple’s pesky subscription management or privacy labeling rules.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Problem is the door requires resources to be diverted from making the insides of the wall better.

Division of labor. The guys that know how to install doors are not the same guys that fix the plumbing.

 

[ngextreme]

Also increases code complexity, creates new potential attack vectors, etc. And that assumes apps you don’t want/need to use decide to stay in the App Store. Just wait until that app you use for work every day leaves so they don’t have to abide by Apple’s pesky subscription management or privacy labeling rules.

It bit like the current MacOS ecosystem then!

 

[Monkster]

Wen GFN?

 

[surferfb]

It bit like the current MacOS ecosystem then!

This is such a lazy argument. iOS was designed after learning lessons from OS X and Windows. It was intentionally designed differently, to be more secure and a better experience for most users.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

This is such a lazy argument. iOS was designed after learning lessons from OS X and Windows. It was intentionally designed differently, to be more secure and a better experience for most users.

It wasn't originally designed with an App Store either. Web apps were the future.

The App Store had to be tacked on after the fact due to developer outcry and the emerging jailbreaking scene that was making native software anyways.

 

[boss.king]

Also increases code complexity, creates new potential attack vectors, etc. And that assumes apps you don’t want/need to use decide to stay in the App Store. Just wait until that app you use for work every day leaves so they don’t have to abide by Apple’s pesky subscription management or privacy labeling rules.

Well, I don’t live in the EU so that’s not really a concern for me. But even if I did, it’s Apple choosing to force devs to pick. There’s no reason apps couldn’t exist in the App Store and third party stores, Apple just chose to be petty about it.

And yeah, it increases code complexity and attack vectors just like basically every new feature that gets added. Do you want them to just stop adding new features to iOS?

 

[I7guy]

It wasn't originally designed with an App Store either. Web apps were the future.

The App Store had to be tacked on after the fact due to developer outcry and the emerging jailbreaking scene that was making native software anyways.

Windows didn’t come with a native ip stack either - iirc.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Windows didn’t come with a native ip stack either - iirc.

Right. Meaning that the argument of iOS not being designed to accommodates 3rd party stores is ridiculous because technology changes and adapts all the time.

 

[I7guy]

Right. Meaning that the argument of iOS not being designed to accommodates 3rd party stores is ridiculous because technology changes and adapts all the time.

Rational was different. MS did it to cut out the competition . There was no legislation telling ms to do that like the DMA. The App Store rational wasn’t that.

 

[Abazigal]

And how exactly will you be impacted if you don’t install the Epic Games Store? And if you don’t install the Epic Games Store, how is the iOS platform made “worse”?

Some people don’t think before they type and it really shows.

I posted this in another thread and am reposting it here.

Steven Sinofsky address this point (and numerous others) very eloquently here.

A lot of these “more choice is always better and there are no trade offs involved because you will always be able to pick and choose what you want” arguments fall apart when you think about it for more than a few seconds.

Building Under Regulation [215.]

An essay on the EU Digital Markets Act and Apple’s Update on apps distributed in the European Union (and some personal history)

hardcoresoftware.learningbyshipping.com

And given his former position in Microsoft, he has definitely given this matter a lot of thought than you and I would ever have.

Ultimately a choice and you can ignore it if you want, and more choice is always better.

Many are saying this about the store, but it does apply to all the new optional or key technologies that now have default treatment. There are three issues.

First, you won’t be able to ignore these choices because you never know when they will pop up as new potential defaults from an app you downloaded. You might also be directed to use a third-party store because your medical provider, government service, or bank decided they want to build an app with features that are not permitted in the Apple App Store. Then it won’t be optional.

Second, and this is the point that means the most to me, is that choice is good, but the DMA has removed the choice in the market that was the iPhone as we knew it and replaced it with an entirely different choice with quite a few potential problems I now need to worry about. I can’t simply ignore the choice.

And third, all this code is in the system now. I’m too much of a former engineer to know that all these boundary cases will absolutely lessen the robustness of a system. As I said, we spent (and I’m sure the teams continue to spend) a significant amount of energy finding, fixing, and coping with bugs. The cost of DMA is now ongoing and will certainly monotonically increase for all so-called gatekeepers and gatekeepers to be. There’s no escaping that this cost will impact our experience.

Ball's back in your court.

 

[AndiG]

Ball's back in your court.

Apple just removed all VPN apps in Russia. In the EU users could install VPN apps/anti surveillance software using sideloading (or it will be soon possible for them to do so).

Freedom and democracy always comes at a price. If the governments force you to install certain apps or appstores, the could force Apple now to do so. Just have a look at China or Russia.

So choice and freedom is welcome, even if some people don‘t like it.