Fortnite and Epic Games Store Submitted to Apple for iOS Launch in EU

[Ctrlos]

Imagine being massively upset that 6-7 rival retailers decided to build new stores directly opposite your 'favourite' Walmart giving you more choice and driving down prices. Imagine being the 'son of the mayor' stood with a placard outside Walmart protesting the presence of these new retailers.

 

[Ctrlos]

In other words, you want something that doesn't exist

What they're saying is it should exist. Apple, and by extension its worryingly overly zealous defence force have no leg to stand on when they sell one platform that is open and simultaneously defend one that is closed. Its like when they tried to justify the iPhone still having Lightning when even the TV remote had USB-C. Apple are entitled to defend their bottom line but this doesn't stop it falling on deaf ears.

 

[Ctrlos]

I think Apple should raise the price

Or maybe open platforms like the web are the future. Corporate control of internet traffic has led to all sorts of horrors/.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

I can't believe I'm supporting Epic of all businesses, but good.

Businesses should have a choice in who they purchase services from. In the real world I can choose DHL, FedEx, UPS for sending packages.

Do I believe these services should be free? Absolutely not.

 

[cjsuk]

Or maybe open platforms like the web are the future. Corporate control of internet traffic has led to all sorts of horrors/.

Um, the entire of the internet is run by evil megacorporations and optimised for cost by them. Even the open source stuff is controlled by megacorporations. And it all runs on top of proprietary hardware that isn't interchangeable.

There is no open platform.

 

[d686546s]

I think most of us here are for more money going to developers than to Apple.

Where many of us have an issue is when companies such as Epic or Spotify try to use political power to force platform owners - who have spent millions of man years and billions of dollars to create, develop, maintain, and support the platform - to give it away for free to developers to use their distribution, tools, frameworks, and discovery.

Spotify and Epic don't want to pay less to Apple. They want to pay nothing, and I personally think that's a terrible precedent for any platform.

Considering that several jurisdictions are pursuing regulatory reform that will limit the power of platform owners I find it too simplistic to say that the DMA happened entirely because of Spotify and Epic. In what world is either company relevant enough for the EU to craft legislation specifically for them and against Apple, Microsoft, Google and Amazon, among others. How does this work specifically?

Besides, name a single multinational company that does not "try to use political power" to further their business interests. Apple too spends money on lobbying to create a favourable regulatory environment, as do all the other tech giants. People here are upset that Apple didn't get its way, not that others are trying to lobby government.

Agreed, they are leeches. Apple is their desired host. Epic merely builds dopamine hits for pennies on the dollar and generate zero value to society.

I'm not a big fan of Epic, but they do provide one of the most important gaming engines on which a significant part of the industry run. It depends on how you define "value to society," but if we apply such a strict definition I'm not sure most of what Apple does provides a "value to society."

Spotify is even worse in that their product is licensed and simply acts as a middleman for other people's content on other companies' platforms.

So is Apple Music and the iTunes Music Store before it, in fairness. Is Apple a leech because of it? The App Store is just a middleman as well. Are you coming around to the critics after all?

 

[WarmWinterHat]

There is no open platform.

That's a major problem.

 

[5097842]

No, no, there is a simple way: a$$le alignes tl the law. But we know, they don't like the competition..

I half agree with you! Apple needs to align with the law, but Epic needs to follow the lawful rules. I don't have a lot of optimism that either of those things are going to happen easily or without as much resistance as possible. So let the circus begin!

 

[Ctrlos]

Um, the entire of the internet is run by evil megacorporations and optimised for cost by them. Even the open source stuff is controlled by megacorporations. And it all runs on top of proprietary hardware that isn't interchangeable.

There is no open platform.

Its open by virtue of thw fact that I can teach myself HTML and Javascript at zero cost, hire myself some server space and a URL and build my own website.

 

[I7guy]

[…]

And no, people don't buy Apple devices solely to be locked down to a single store. They buy Apple devices- as I do- for the vast pile of many great benefits... and then put up with select shortcomings. I doubt ANYONE goes into an Apple store to lay down about $1K because they want to be limited to getting apps from only one source. I 100% suspect it's "the rest" of many benefits that motivates such purchases... even with select limiting factors such as this one.

We don’t know why customers buy apple devices. I buy them because I like their hardware and software. And if I purchase an app it’s not the Wild West. Apps are in one store and devs don’t get my cc.

For me I have not wished for multiple app stores to complicate the process. Maybe some have maybe some haven’t. Whether this is limiting or a feature depends on a point of view.

 

[Remy149]

Of course he charges one. Look at you glazing over Apple charging the alternative store for every single individual install, per device (and update) even if they never use the app.

...which the EU has decided is against the rules (to charge per install and update).

Video games on Steam are usually cheaper than the same game on any of the consoles, which suggests that it's at least possible that competition in software distribution can lower prices.

But even if they don't, I'm not entirely clear why more money going to developers rather than Apple is necessarily a bad thing.

It’s because on the pc platform they aren’t competing with console marketplaces. They are trying to keep users from pirating games. Steam competitor is gog and epic stores not PlayStation and Nintendo.

 

[bushman4]

It’s not there yet. So don’t get to excited
Be sure Apple is checking it with a fine tooth comb

 

[mansplains]

Take a look at the games section of the US App Store. 9 out every 10 games are sleazy and run by a sleazy developer..

Apple is fine with sleazy businesses as long as they get their cut.

You don't even have to look at the games section, games take up >80% of the AppStore real estate. I love how Apple touts discoverability while they run the same stories on the main page on loop, along with "top" apps (yeah, Hulu is totally a top app because it's an incredible experience, not simply because people want to stream content) being plastered in the sections that aren't games.

Monopoly GO has been ubiquitous in the AppStore lately, and it's a shame. We could've had a simple digital Monopoly, maybe with some paid skins for a monetize option. Instead, Hasbro partners with Scopely, who has faced multiple lawsuits (one of which didn't succeed because of the wonderful forced arbitration in their ToS), for outright scam behaviors.

 

[davide_eu]

Here many of us have an issue is when companies such as Epic or Spotify try to use political power to force platform owners - who have spent millions of man years and billions of dollars to create, develop, maintain, and support the platform - to give it away for free to developers to use their distribution, tools, frameworks, and discovery.

Spotify and Epic don't want to pay less to Apple. They want to pay nothing, and I personally think that's a terrible precedent for any platform.

What here many don't understand is that the transaction is between Epic/Spotify/... and the owner of the phone.

a$$le has no title to ask for money once the phone is sold; the development of the environment has been already paid selling the devices.

And as many are saying that they should leave EU at the same way if they don't like the mobile market they can leave and sell only PC.

So again, thank you EU!

 

[davide_eu]

In other words, you want something that doesn't exist

It will, EU will kick until it will happen!

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Monopoly GO has been ubiquitous in the AppStore lately, and it's a shame. We could've had a simple digital Monopoly, maybe with some paid skins for a monetize option. Instead, Hasbro partners with Scopely, who has faced multiple lawsuits (one of which didn't succeed because of the wonderful forced arbitration in their ToS), for outright scam behaviors.

I remember watching a video essay about the mobile gaming industry and a large segment of it was dedicated to highlighting the predatory design of Monopoly GO. There's plenty of reddit posts, video essays, articles all covering it too.

Here's a medium post about the game design, how it was entirely built about pushing the user's buttons to hopefully squeeze money out of them.

 

[davide_eu]

Facebook, for example, have made too many billions to count on the App Store despite never paying Apple anything for the pleasure besides the yearly developer fee.

To pay for what? To host an .apk on their website?

They should pay Facebook! Imagine if Facebook would block access to any iCrap... Their value would become zero...

 

[aidler]

Can someone explain what that means?

especially given that Epic will often be charged twice – once for its app marketplace and once again for every Fortnite install.

Epic, with the current rules, has to pay the core technology fee. Where does the second charge come from?

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Can someone explain what that means?

Epic, with the current rules, has to pay the core technology fee. Where does the second charge come from?

The CTF is charged once for installing the marketplace and separately for annual app installs over 1M installs. Assuming Epic is shipping their store, and fortnite within that store, and fortnite acheives over 1M installs, that is 2x CTF.

 

[mansplains]

I remember watching a video essay about the mobile gaming industry and a large segment of it was dedicated to highlighting the predatory design of Monopoly GO. There's plenty of reddit posts, video essays, articles all covering it too.

Here's a medium post about the game design, how it was entirely built about pushing the user's buttons to hopefully squeeze money out of them.

Excellent post, thanks for sharing. Game monetization problems certainly aren't anything new, I enjoy how South Park packaged the controversy in Freemium Isn't Free. It wouldn't bother me as much if they were all soulless candy crush/clash of clans clone cash-grabs (unintentional alliteration ftw), but they instead take a beloved IP and ruin it. Why I'll stick to my Steam games and avoid the mobile space.

 

[wanha]

a$$le has no title to ask for money once the phone is sold; the development of the environment has been already paid selling the devices.

can you explain what that means, because surely you can't be saying Apple isn't allowed to sell services on their own platform?

 

[Glideslope]

Grabbing Popcorn for the comments after Apple rejects this .........

 

[AndiG]

I’ve never wanted someone to fail before … but just for a second … imagine if the Epic App Store had a malicious software package available to download on it. Epic would basically prove Apple right and make the EU’s laws look pathetic. It would be extremely fun to watch.

But wait a second … If nothing happens, would this prove Apples concerns wrong and only related to money?
And why doesn‘t Apple pay Core Technology fee to BSD/FreeBSD, since all their OS stuff uses FreeBSD technology for decades now?

 

[d686546s]

It’s because on the pc platform they aren’t competing with console marketplaces. They are trying to keep users from pirating games. Steam competitor is gog and epic stores not PlayStation and Nintendo.

Yes, that's the point. As far as digital games are concerned there are multiple competing stores on the same platform with overall lower prices (PC), compared to a single store on a closed hardware platform with generally higher prices (consoles). Physical console games are a different story as there's competition among retailers.

 

[I7guy]

Imagine being massively upset that 6-7 rival retailers decided to build new stores directly opposite your 'favourite' Walmart giving you more choice and driving down prices. Imagine being the 'son of the mayor' stood with a placard outside Walmart protesting the presence of these new retailers.

Imagine the lower prices were for crappier products. Products that had less of a warranty, cheaper materials, more prone to breakage, etc.