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Apple and Epic Games do not want to have a jury trial in their ongoing legal dispute over Fortnite and Apple's App Store policies, according to a filing submitted to the Northern California court handling the case today.

fortnite_apple_featured.jpg

The two companies said they have met and have agreed that both Epic's claims and Apple's counterclaims should be tried by the court with a bench trial at a date to be determined.
Epic and Apple have met and conferred, and the parties agree that Epic's claims and Apple's counterclaims should be tried by the Court, and not by a jury. Therefore, with Epic's consent, Apple hereby withdraws its demand for a jury trial pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 38(d). The parties respectfully request that the case (including any claims and counterclaims) proceed to a bench trial on a schedule determined by the Court.
In a counterclaim against Epic Games, Apple had originally asked for a trial by jury, but given that the judge overseeing the court told the two companies that she does not want to try two separate cases, Apple has withdrawn the request.

There was a preliminary injunction hearing between Epic Games and Apple earlier this week, and during that hearing, the judge suggested that a jury trial might be appropriate to ensure a final judgement that's better able to stand up to appeal, but Apple and Epic Games have declined.

During the preliminary hearing, the judge was hard on Epic Games, criticizing the company for the way that it initiated the lawsuit. Epic Games in August added a direct payment option in popular iOS game Fortnite, breaking Apple's App Store rules as the payment option skirted in-app purchases.

Apple then pulled the app from the App Store, and Epic Games filed a pre-prepared lawsuit against Apple, leading to a legal dispute that could take years to resolve. At the current time, Fortnite is not available on Apple devices and Epic's developer account has been terminated.

During Monday's hearing, the judge said that Epic was "not forthright" and had made a "calculated decision" to defy Apple's App Store rules. "There are people in the public who consider you guys heroes for what you did, but it's not honest," she said.

With Apple and Epic declining a jury trial, the case could be heard sometime in July 2021, with a specific date set to be determined by the court.

Article Link: Fortnite Dispute Between Apple and Epic Games Won't Have Jury Trial
 

Appleman3546

macrumors 6502
May 13, 2019
326
620
I am interested to see if the parties will put the funds in a trust if Fortnite is allowed to be on the App Store until a final decision
 
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randyj

macrumors regular
Aug 23, 2004
174
267
Epic dont know how good they had it.

I tried to sell clothing in a department store years ago. They wanted me to pay for floor space, put all my stuff their on consignment, and then they were going to mark up 100%.
So I had to cover the cost of making the goods, getting them to the store etc, and they made a massive 100% mark up, where I had to cover the cost of goods sold in my share.
And this was to get product in 1 store.

Epic can publish a game and get it in the hands of 1 billion people all over the world, all that distribution handled for them, selling across different currencies etc.

That would have been a dream for anyone only a few years ago.
I have zero sympathy for them.
 
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michaelsviews

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2007
1,342
327
New England
I think this is a good move by both companies. It will be hard enough finding a judge who is competent to understand the issues involved but virtually impossible to find 12 jurors to understand the issues enough to give a proper verdict.
Granted there's more to it than this, but in short Apples ball park Apples Rules, they obviously have a signed agreement from Epic, Epic BROKE rules Apple caught them gave them 2 weeks to fix, they didn't fix and Apple locked the switch in Off mode.
 
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RyanInBinary

macrumors member
Oct 30, 2017
58
111
My guess is that Epic withdraws or settles before a verdict is rendered. They’ve set up a very flimsy argument that is already being shot full of holes. To top it off Amazon is launching Luna and showing you can do things outside the App Store if you don’t want to follow guidelines. The final nail in this will most likely come in the form of pressure from other companies like Match, Tile, Hey email, or Spotify. If Apple wins the case against Epic, it sets legal precedent and hurts all future attempts by other complainers that may have a stronger case and didn’t start off on such a bad foot. These other companies have every reason to tell epic to shut up and back off. Coupling that with the money they lose every single day by not having Fortnite on Android or iOS and the long term damage it’s doing to one of their most valuable games by turning two large player base platforms away, I don’t think they’re going to do too well.
 
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frownface

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2020
33
24
So EPIC thinks a judge will be safer than a jury?

I'd imagine so. Jury members are regular people afterall, and i'd say public opinion of apple is a lot more favourable than public opinion of epic games.

On the other hand, a judge should make a decision purely from a legal & technical viewpoints, their ability to disassociate their personal opinions about either company would be far better than that of the average jury member.
 
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DoctorTech

macrumors 6502a
Jan 6, 2014
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Indianapolis, IN
Granted there's more to it than this, but in short Apples ball park Apples Rules, they obviously have a signed agreement from Epic, Epic BROKE rules Apple caught them gave them 2 weeks to fix, they didn't fix and Apple locked the switch in Off mode.
I agree 100%. The way I see it this is a very simple case of "if you don't like Apple's rules, go make your own phones and tablets and create your own app store". I have lost a lot of faith in juries making good decisions on technical matters, especially when Epic is going to shroud their arguments in terms of "fairness" vs contract law.
 
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garylapointe

macrumors 68000
Feb 19, 2006
1,796
1,183
Dearborn (Detroit), MI, USA
Epic dont know how good they had it.

I agree with you. 100%

I tried to sell clothing in a department store years ago. They wanted me to pay for floor space, put all my stuff their on consignment, and then they were going to mark up 100%.
So I had to cover the cost of making the goods, getting them to the store etc, and they made a massive 100% mark up, where I had to cover the cost of goods sold in my share.
And this was to get product in 1 store.

But this isn't exactly the same, retail space and square footage isn't the same as digital "real estate".

That said, I agree that "Epic dont know how good they had it."
 
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h3ysw5nkan

macrumors 68000
Aug 17, 2016
1,607
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I'm wondering why the court dates are like a few years out? Don't we have enough money to fund the courts? Don't they make money anyway? Why can't things happen faster? Court dates should happen the same week if both parties are ready.
 
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The Cappy

macrumors 6502
Nov 9, 2015
446
787
Dunwich Fish Market
Epic dont know how good they had it.

I tried to sell clothing in a department store years ago. They wanted me to pay for floor space, put all my stuff their on consignment, and then they were going to mark up 100%.
So I had to cover the cost of making the goods, getting them to the store etc, and they made a massive 100% mark up, where I had to cover the cost of goods sold in my share.
And this was to get product in 1 store.

Epic can publish a game and get it in the hands of 1 billion people all over the world, all that distribution handled for them, selling across different currencies etc.

That would have been a dream for anyone only a few years ago.
I have zero sympathy for them.
I agree with you but you’re missing the point. Epic KNOWS how good a deal it is. They just want to be the store-owner.
 
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germinator

macrumors regular
Apr 22, 2009
206
117
Interesting. I am not sure why Epic chose this path. I would think, a jury would view a fairness argument more favorably than judges (and that's a GOOD THING).
This is not about "my store, my rules", as some fanboys here would make you believe.
It's a larger issue than that.
 
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GeoStructural

macrumors 6502a
Oct 8, 2016
747
2,457
Colombia
Thank you, Epic! for fighting the fight for all. You will be acknowledged later regardless of the outcome.

No “safety and privacy” bsh*t can cover the unfairness of the AppStore’s policies.

(Edit: Wow, y’all hateful). I will be donating to Epic's effort for each dislike on my comment. :)
 
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TracesOfArsenic

macrumors 6502a
Feb 22, 2018
539
607
Epic dont know how good they had it.

I tried to sell clothing in a department store years ago. They wanted me to pay for floor space, put all my stuff their on consignment, and then they were going to mark up 100%.
So I had to cover the cost of making the goods, getting them to the store etc, and they made a massive 100% mark up, where I had to cover the cost of goods sold in my share.
And this was to get product in 1 store.

Epic can publish a game and get it in the hands of 1 billion people all over the world, all that distribution handled for them, selling across different currencies etc.

That would have been a dream for anyone only a few years ago.
I have zero sympathy for them.
JFC. You're comparing physical products to digital ones.
 
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Art Mark

macrumors 6502
Jan 6, 2010
389
706
Oregon
Epic dont know how good they had it.

I tried to sell clothing in a department store years ago. They wanted me to pay for floor space, put all my stuff their on consignment, and then they were going to mark up 100%.
So I had to cover the cost of making the goods, getting them to the store etc, and they made a massive 100% mark up, where I had to cover the cost of goods sold in my share.
And this was to get product in 1 store.

Epic can publish a game and get it in the hands of 1 billion people all over the world, all that distribution handled for them, selling across different currencies etc.

That would have been a dream for anyone only a few years ago.
I have zero sympathy for them.


Exactly. Working with a retailer and dealing with floor space is legal, paying for shelf space in groceries stores, legal. How is a 30% commission out of line? Retail marks goods up 100% or more sometimes and the wholesaler/manufacturer has to make it work.
 
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