I don't see Apple settling this one. Epic isn't asking for any money, nor should they be due any. Their losses are entirely self inflicted. Apple will just keep them blowing in the breeze.
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Fortnite Dispute Between Apple and Epic Games Won't Have Jury Trial
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They can be more expensive, but in this type of case the difference, as a percentage of the overall legal bill, is unlikely to make much difference.
Selling software in the days before the App Store was all about distribution, retail space, square metres (footage), and shelf space/positioning. Internet distribution helped established software companies that already had the big marketing budget and internet infrastructure to generate volume traffic to their eCommerce web sites. I remember I had limited success through shareware sites and bundled software distributors, but it was brutal for the independent small development team.
Now Epic games want a return to the bad old days when you had to be a huge established company with eCommerce, cross-boarder tax clearances, etc. to make it as an independent software developer.
Given that Steam, Itch.io, and independent sites exist, Epic must be totally delusional for them to believe this has any chance of happening.
I hear you.
I remember the retail days working at the local computer stores back in the days of the Atari 800 / Commodore 64. We had the mainstream software, we had some local developers, there was the Atari Program Exchange which was publishers selling their own software via Atari's mail order company (but we carried those titles at my local store, they had boring generic packaging).
The the Apple Store came and had VERY limited shelf space for software, even before the app stores.
To me, 30% seems like it would be amazing to the smaller developers! Even for some of the larger developers. It's only an issue for the games that go wild, but they'd never have gone wild if it wasn't for the stores that charged them 30%...
Agreed on that, if there’s nothing to gain by haste, play it safe and have time to properly evaluate.
However, I think for technology, advancement, options for developers and costumers, having flagship games and game engines is a net benefit. Having Fortnite running at great performance is a positive showcase. But granted, dishonest behaviors shouldn’t be rewarded.
What’s the current state? Can a dev still use Unreal Engine to make iOS games? I’m already lost at this.
Unreal engine is safe (for now at least).
As I pointed out before the Unreal engine is a very small player in the market:
"Talking about Unity, it has an average of 4.5 million subscribers and a market share of 48% whereas Unreal Engine stands about 13%." - "Unity vs Unreal Engine? No more Confusion for Game development" April 10, 2018 Linkedin
Unity vs. Unreal: What to Choose for Your Project? (Aug 9, 2019) shows, based on developer data, Unity has risen to 62%, Internal proprietary engines were at 47% while Unreal languishes at 12%.
The Unreal engine just isn't that big a player in the market
Considering what happened to Epic's developer account they have basically out ~25% of the Mobile and ~10% of the Desktop/Laptop market (I'm not sure how they would merge) their actions are totally bizarre.
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Yet it is simply not true. That is not what this case is about at all. Apple (Walmart) is not stopping Bob to buy v-bucks from EPIC (Target) at all. All they are saying is do not advertise in our App Store (Walmart) that you sell them at EPIC Store (Target). They are not preventing Bob to buy v-bucks direct from EPIC at all.
Directly in the app, not leaving the app to visit a website. Must put in CC info and hit submit. They do allow you to pick $1.99 a month [they had a "pick how much you want to pay us monthly" special until the end of Sep]. Yeah, it's fully in the app itself. Been that way for a few weeks at least.
Steve was a smart man. I know this was probably way before Epic was thought about but it's exactly what is going on now.
Here is a perfect example of why life experience matters. Tons of people just like to armchair CEO and say, "I think 30% is too much." No rationale, just sounds like "free money" for Apple and "too high." "Oh man, they take 30% for doing nothing but allowing an app on their platform!? Greedy Apple!"
The value Apple is providing with their platform is enormous. They could probably get a lot more than 30% if we're being honest. Reaching billions of people isn't easy and shouldn't come cheap.
This kind of thing, as you point out, exists all over the place. You see it in grocery stores, department stores, gas stations, and anywhere there are people buying stuff. It is COMPETITIVE and difficult to reach your customer. When you find an avenue that makes you a billionaire, don't try to be smarter than the even bigger company that got you there. You will lose.
It is not so much "life experience" as a failure to understand basic business fundamentals.
Fundamentals like money that is going to the CEO and those under him could instead be going back into the company to make a better product. I mean when Toyota's CEO makes less then 1 million US$ and the train wreck that is the US automobile market pays around $50 million and the company is padded out with MBA who really don't do anything more then a person with basic business sense could figure out and the stock goes up when said company lays off a mess of workers when a cut in salary (As Nintendo's CEO and those under him did when that that company hit hard times) would have save jobs you know the stockholders and those running the company don't know their head from a hole in the ground.
I watch the ideal version of American Capitalism portrayed in By Word of Mouse (1954), Heir-Conditioned (1955), Yankee Dood It (1956). which were all backed by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation. and look at the current reality and wonder where it all went wrong.
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Where do you want to go? Are you saying that Epic shouldn't pay anything to increase their stocks? 30% is more than enough for both companies. Epic won't go broke because of it. Terrible comparison between a car company and a software developer.
This logic always amuses me. The company is owned by the share holders. They decided how to compensate their leadership. Spending more money on other parts of the company will not necessarily "make a better product". It is rare in big companies that their products issues are because they are not spending enough on their product. More commonly, it is much more fundamental. For manufacturing companies, it is often because of historical issues between them and their union employees.
In 2012, he made $1.9 million a year. Mary Barra, CEO of GM was paid $2.1 million this year. Her total compensation is mostly in stock, so most of her pay is decided by the market's value of that stock.
For the most part share holder don't pay attention to what the CEO (or how many people are below him making insane salaries) makes. This ia why EA shareholders say no to massive proposed raises for executives was such a new maker. was news. The reality is Shareholders’ Votes Have Done Little to Curb Lavish Executive Pay. "There are several reasons “say on pay,” as it is known, has had little impact on executive compensation. One may be that the votes are not binding."
Yankee Dood It (1956):
Elmer Fudd as King of the Elves: A manufacturer who sticks to old equipment cannot compete, and must fail. To survive, he must persuade people to risk savings in his business. He can then buy new equipment, increase production, and show a profit.
Shoemaker: And he keeps the profit.
Elmer Fudd as King of the Elves: Oh no, that's what a lot of people think. But he doesn't. Out of profit, he must pay dividends to investors. Profit must be put back into the business to fund newer and better machinery.
The painful reality is CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978; Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time. If that piece of sanity isn't enough CEOs see pay grow 1,000% in the last 40 years, now make 278 times the average worker
One of the recommendations in CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours over the year was "Allow greater use of “say on pay,” which allows a firm’s shareholders to vote on top executives’ compensation."
"U.S. CEOs earn from 400 to 500 times the median salary for workers. For CEOs in the U.K., the ratio is 22; in France, it's 15; and in Germany it's 12." And that not unions or whatever BS you can come up with is why the US is no longer the leading creditor nation but the leading debtor.
They're back
Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing - The Verge 10/24/2020
Epic Games fired back against Apple yet again in a new court filing, saying the iPhone maker “has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor,” the latest salvo in the ongoing battle between the two companies.
But in Friday’s filing, Epic said its actions “are a far cry from the tortious—even purportedly criminal—conduct that Apple’s Opposition depicts. Simply put, Epic did not “steal” anything that belonged to Apple.” The company couldn’t “steal” proceeds from the sales of its own creative efforts, and did not “interfere with any prospective economic advantage Apple sought to gain from Fortnite users separate and apart from their interest in Fortnite,” the filing states.
“Apple’s repeated assertions of theft boil down to the extraordinary assertion that Epic’s collection of payments by players of Epic’s game to enjoy the work of Epic’s artists, designers, and engineers is the taking of something that belongs to Apple,” Epic said in its filing.
Rogers said the case should go to a jury to decide and suggesting a trial frame of summer 2021. “It is important enough to understand what real people think,” she said. “Do these security issues concern people or not?”
Apple did not immediately respond to a request for comment Saturday.
see Download PDF
Download PDF
Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing - The Verge 10/24/2020
Epic Games fired back against Apple yet again in a new court filing, saying the iPhone maker “has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor,” the latest salvo in the ongoing battle between the two companies.
But in Friday’s filing, Epic said its actions “are a far cry from the tortious—even purportedly criminal—conduct that Apple’s Opposition depicts. Simply put, Epic did not “steal” anything that belonged to Apple.” The company couldn’t “steal” proceeds from the sales of its own creative efforts, and did not “interfere with any prospective economic advantage Apple sought to gain from Fortnite users separate and apart from their interest in Fortnite,” the filing states.
“Apple’s repeated assertions of theft boil down to the extraordinary assertion that Epic’s collection of payments by players of Epic’s game to enjoy the work of Epic’s artists, designers, and engineers is the taking of something that belongs to Apple,” Epic said in its filing.
Rogers said the case should go to a jury to decide and suggesting a trial frame of summer 2021. “It is important enough to understand what real people think,” she said. “Do these security issues concern people or not?”
Apple did not immediately respond to a request for comment Saturday.
see Download PDF
Download PDF
Leave it to Epic to totally miss the point:
"Although Epic portrays itself as a modern corporate Robin Hood, in reality it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise that simply wants to pay nothing for the tremendous value it derives from the App Store," Apple writes. - ( Apple says Epic’s Fortnite payment scheme “is theft, period.”)
Unless I am missing something not paying for services rendered (ie using Apple's Store) would seem to fall under Theft of Services or in this case Fare evasion
I would say Epic was getting bizarre but IMHO they passed bizarre a long time ago.
More over there is this:
'Besides being a breach of contract, Apple says in its motion that Epic's addition of Direct Payments was a "Trojan Horse" that amounts to "little more than theft." By using a "hotfix" update method that was deliberately concealed from the usual App Store review process, Apple says Epic "sought to enjoy all of the benefits of Apple’s iOS platform and related services while [lining] Epic's pockets at Apple's expense."' - ( Apple says Epic’s Fortnite payment scheme “is theft, period.”)
We are seeing this kind of behavior from various game companies with regards to ESRB where after it has gotten its categorization and a good number of reviews they then throw in microtransactions which could have changed the rating and reviews.
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